It's conversations like this one which cause me to only use two catagories to file music in:

Music I like

Music I don't like

ya'll can go on and on and on about what is soul music, what is jazz, what is pop, whatever. my way just seems.... simpler... and causes fewer arguments...

VoicesCarry said:

Does that mean 50 Cent has more soul than George Michael, as well? Does it fit in a mathematical equation, like Lenny Kravitz has 1/2 as much soul as Prince does, or does any amount of non-white blood qualify soul? Does Jon B have soul because he's not "white"? How about William Hung? He's a soulful cat.

Axchi696 said:

Someone needs to program a Janfriend Soul Calculator.

Cloudbuster said:

That's not what soul means. I copied the definition right from the dictionary and posted it here. What you said soul is about is actually the definition of soulful which means "full of deep feeling" You can sing a pop song soulfully, but it doesn't make it soul

VoicesCarry said:

I never said that. If that's what you got, sorry Teena Marie is white and has soul. When someone says "You have soul" or "they have soul" or "I got soul" it has nothing to do with music,it has to do with personality. A soul singer is someone who lives and breathes soul music and it's what they spend the majority of their time performing. What makes anybody a singer in a particular category? The fact that is what they sing most of the time. Leann Rimes is a country singer. Why? Because she sings country music most of the time. I have heard some more pop friendly tunes from her and some of her songs have crossed over to top 40 radio but that doesn't now make her a pop singer and it doesn't mean her any of her albums should be included in a pop category for an award simply because there are a few pop songs on it. I'm not the only one who agrees with this, I'm just the most vocal about it

There's nothing wrong with versatility. I haven't heard a soul song popout of George Michael. Some of the songs on "Faith" were r&b, yes, but r&b is NOT soul music. To know what sould music is you have to have a part of your culture, like the definition said, or someone would have to sit you down and play it for you

Janfriend said:

Soul (n) The quality that arouses emotion and sentiment.

Yeah, actually, I think cloudy did get it correct with respect to the dictionary.

VoicesCarry said:

There are different dictionaries, but I posted Webster's New World Dictionary's definition. It was the 6th defintion of soul.The definition you posted is the meaning of soulful

Janfriend said:

No it ain't, hun. Soulful is an adjective; this definition pertains to a noun. Mine's from Webster, too. It's definition 5b. Did you know they even have the Janfriend definition of soul in there, too?

Janfriend said:

Supernova said:

Thankyou, Supernova.
Nobody was out picketing GM... he was undeniably soulful, and unlike the Pat Boones out there remaking black hits, his style was and still is (from what I've heard) original.
There was no black backlash against this man. In America, almost any white male artist that successful in this area is seen as having soul and also heavily influenced by black artists.


I guess the fever is catching?

Anything mainstream seems to latch onto is deemed . Back then , "blue eyed soul" was having some kind of resurgence...media ran with it. Never was he nominated in the category again.(Was he?)

This thread is all over the map! It's just a complicated issue...

While I don't consider GM a "soul singer" I know a lot of Black people like his music, so he's embraced to a degree. But like someone else mentioned, it's fucked up for Black artists to applaud & not feel slighted when their own work is constantly underappreciated yet someone White comes along, does some similar shit & gets instantly catapulted & praised.

In other words, I'd love to see Joss Stone get the same press/accolades/opportunies if she were Black. The eagerness to force her down everyone's throats is so fucking annoying to me b/c I just don't hear anything in her voice that I can't hear in other singers that aren't nearly as touted by the "public"...

I'm not in favor of categorizing things in terms of race but race always comes into it, at least in America b/c there's just too much fucked up shit in the past AND present. It's kinda cold to shut somebody out of a category their music seems to fit into. But it goes both ways - an alt rock station in the Bay area plays ONLY (what else) alt rock YET they break format to play Eminem songs!! So if it's not racial, why break format to play a rap song? You KNOW why...

And I don't know how Black artists that dont fit into the "Black mold" get ANY airplay. I hear Lenny's rock stuff on rock stations, but where is his other stuff played? Is it even released or do they decide against that b/c there's no outlet for it? Where the fuck can you tune in to hear a Macy Gray song? A MeShell song? Black artists who don't walk the R&B/rap line strictly never get fully embraced by ANYONE & that's fucked up.

There's too much race, history, thievery & hurt feelings for any of it to be clean. That's why to some it seems so simple & to others it's wrapped up in a whole bunch of shit. It's unfortunate, to have everything tainted like that, but that's how it is. God bless America, we are truly fucked up...

U heard "plantation radio" by family stand? Too black for white stations and vice versa.

"everybody, everybody
say they wanna be free
but kissin' ass
and trying to last
is all I see"

Few on here know family stand. Even i know 'em. Great group.

GM is pretty damn soulful but who the hell remembers 1988?

CalhounSq said:

I'm not completely disputing what you say, but I live in the Bay Area. If you're talking about Live 105, I've heard Outkast & 50 Cent as well as Eminem. Each Hey Yah and Cleanin out my Closet is three minutes that they don't play Linkin Park or Blink 182, so don't complain!

Of course GM has soul. I wouldn't call him a soul artist, but rather a pop artist. I wouldn't call Prince a soul artist either--it's too limiting. But Prince obviously has soul.

New Jack Swing was crap back then and still is.
Where are those so called artists now: Bobby Brown, Teddy Riley,Keith Sweat.
and who cares.
Come On George Kick their asses....

CalhounSq said:

I hear you on both counts. The Alternative station in my neck of the woods will play the Beastie Boys, but no other hip hop.

my lord, will this thread ever die?

sosgemini said:

In a word-- no.

Same with most current artists.....will grrenday be around in 15 years time? Errrrr no!

Loads hate newjack it seems