I can understand some of the anger regarding "blue eyed soul". I believe that the sound and style of the music should be looked at instead of the skin color. The anger may stem from the 50's and the 60's when black artists would release a song, get minimal payment for it then a white person covers the same song and they become HUGE and get lots of money. Correct me if I'm wrong. I can only speak as a person of color but not as a black person. That being said, I'm kind of wishy washy on this subject.

There is a group called Orchestra De La Luz. They are a Japanese band that play salsa music. Most of the band members can't speak any spanish but they sing it. They are really really good. I wouldn't feel bad if they won a salsa award.

Should Charlie Pride not receive a country award because he's black?

Miguel

[Edited 2/7/05 8:26am]

this is what is wrong with America.

ehuffnsd said:

I say ban all award shows in general. They're ruining race relations.

Janfriend said:

As far as I know, most of JT's album was produced by either Neptunes or Timbaland, and the songs sound very much like stereotypical Neptunes- and Timbaland-produced tracks. And surely they are the most successful R&B/soul producers in the world today?

basically janfriend is being a racist. Saying white people cannot have soul is bollocks.

thesexofit said:

I didn't say that. Don't try to make what I said into something else and don't throw around the word racism if you don't know what it means. That's a strong word. Also white people who have soul are just imitating something they've seen black people do. That's not racist,that's a fact

Janfriend said:

No, I think you have the wrong idea. Maybe 'soul music' is a black invention. However, many many people who aren't African have soul, and I will contest your opinion. Just because they may not moan and wail like Aretha Franklin doesn't mean that they don't have soul. Simply being born into a specific race does not constitute soul. Janet Jackson, Jody Watley, Beyonce, Usher do not have soul either.

Janfriend said:

Axchi696 said:

Oh snap!






No you di'in't!! Jody has got plenty of soul. from her days with Shalamar right up to her last album. The others you mentioned...



And to think I liked you.














Soul does not equate race edit!!!
¤
[Edited 2/19/05 17:25pm]

Regardless, just because you are of a racial heritage does not grant you exclusive pass to ownership of "soul". George Michael did not come from a difficult background; however, neither did many of his African American counterparts, who are aping soul singers just as much as he is/was. Beyonce did not grow up poor, oppressed. Janet Jackson once gave Oprah an interview where she was bawling because "the teacher didn't call on her in class because her family was wealthy/famous".

Does Joss Stone have soul? No, she has a good voice. Does Usher have soul? No, he has a good voice. Does Aretha Franklin have soul? Unquestionably. Does Janis Joplin have soul? Without a doubt.

Chico319 said:[quote]

Axchi696 said:

Sorry, not too familiar with Jody. Just wanted another musician from the time period. Let's put Whitney Houston in her place. She's a better example of a soul-less singer anyway.

Axchi696 said:

Ok. That's better. To each his own.

Whitney...hmmm I've seen her name come up on a few "soul-less" lists. I'm sort of down the middle on that one. Mariah Carey may be a better name to throw in there. Though I do like both of them, for what there worth anyway.

Axchi696 said:

You're misunderstanding what soul is. What you mentioned aboved: opression and poverty has to do with blues music not soul music. We are talking about "having soul" which has nothing to do with the music itself. Anyone can imitate, but to have it in your roots and culture is entirely different



Joss does not have soul. She is a poser. Janis was someone who screamed a lot when she was high



See the whole "moan and wail" comment has nothing to do with having soul. You have a different perception of what having soul is. Usher, Janet, Jody, and Beyonce have soul
[Edited 2/19/05 17:42pm]

Let's not be dramatic. There was no "boycott."

All I know is that Janet Jackson, Usher, and Beyonce have nothing in their roots but love of money. Beyonce would sell her mother for $10, and Janet put out a duet with Cliff Richard. Soul music, here we come!
[Edited 2/19/05 17:55pm]

Janfriend said:

You two are cracking me up.








p.s. Janfriend Catherine Zeta's 12"?

Axchi696 said:

Good comeback!

Nevermind, I'm not having this conversation.

once again i state this is what is wrong with America.

Who cares what color the person is... if the music is good and that's what the listeners of the radio want put it on.

all this hate and ignorance just prevents us from being where we should be as a country.

i saw a pic of DC trying to look all hard. how can someone who grew up in an uppermiddle class neighbor know what it's like to be in the streets?

that's a poser more than Joss Stone, and while we are at just cause you date Jay-Z doesn't make you street.

George Michael has a lot more soulful voice than Janet who can barely sing a note aboove a whisper.

Chico319 said:

No, really,it's not. Soul music is about love and relationships. Blues music is about hardship. Two different categories. Having "soul" within you and singing soulfully are also two different things

Janfriend said:

Have you ever heard GM's albums? most of the songs are about relationsheips

ehuffnsd said:

Uh, it also encompasses a certain style to it as well.

Yes, I do own some of his albums
[Edited 2/19/05 22:30pm]

Janfriend said:

then you should listen to them before you comment further, because there are undeniably soulful songs on almost all of his albums. One Mor Try. Kissing A Fool. They Won't Go When I Go. Mother's Pride. Jesus To A Child. etc.

GrayKing said:

Maybe you should read my first post. That album was not a soul album and should not have been included in the soul category. You can have a few soulful sounding songs and sing soulfully, but it doesn't make you a soul singer. Also, imitating the soul sound doesn't mean you have soul. Just like in the Latino community you cannot imitate sabor

Janfriend said:

no, but it is an r&b album, and had 2 huge soul hits.



then what does? singing soul songs soulfully seems like the very definition of a soul singer to me.



indeed. popular music is riddled with prime examples of that. but George Michael isn't one of them.

GrayKing said:

It was not an r&b album. It was a pop album that had a few r&b-sounding songs on it.



No one said anything about singing soul songs soulfully

1. You can sing country soulfully. You can sing rock soulfully. You can sing pop soulfully. It doesn't make it soul and it doesn't make you a soul singer. Some people don't get the difference

2. Soul music is a certain type of music. Anyone with a "soulful sounding" voice in front of r&b beats doesn't cut it

3. Soul singers are people like Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin, and Anthony Hamilton. Justin, Joss, and George are not soul singers

leecaldon said:

He paid for them to work with him, plus the Neptunes are crap. Purely watered-down mainstream friendly music

My point is r&b, soul, jazz, and blues were labeled "black music" and was not included on "white radio" until the last decade which is wrong and probably why some people had a problem with the George Michael nomination at that time because radio was segregated then.

There's a circle of racism here that I won't even get into

Chico319 said:

thesexofit said:

Then, why did you say but "faith" was a soul album right?.....the backing vox, the rhythm of the tracks.....all black influence!

not exclusive to blacks, huh?

White people and white radio certainly thought it was exclusive to blacks until they wanted to cash in on it. I say fuck the bullshit

I can't wait for the day a wave a white people want to do Tropical music. I can't wait till Hilary Duff comes out with her Salsa album. Can't wait until I hear Whoa.....Salsa is not exclusive to hispanics u know!

can't wait!

Janfriend said:

nearly every song on the album, including the title track is an r&b song, but if you say so....



um... you did.



a song is a song. if it's sung as a soul song, and sung soulfully, then that's what it is: soul. which is what George Michael has done repeatedly throughout his career.



define "soul" music. because "singing a soul song, soulfully" is the best i can come up with, and George Michael has done that.



oh, i see. only black people. thesexofit was right. Joss is a soul singer whether i like her or not, or whether you like IT or not. and George Michael is quite adept at being a soul singer. just because that isn't the ONLY THING he's done in his career doesn't mean he isn't that too.

i mean, Prince put out Kamasutra and a lot of rock songs, but i'm not going to tell you that he's not an r&b artist because of those things. likewise, i'm not going to tell you he's not a rock artist just because he's done r&b numbers.

soul songs sung soulfully (a la some of George Michael's work) = soul.