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Printablesextonseven said: VoicesCarry said: I also don't think Paula Cole should be grouped with those. She actually has genuine talent and is locked in a struggle with her label right now. She was doing distinctly non-commercial music long before the accident that was "I Don't Want To Wait". She still makes a good living playing live gigs, and does session music for various artists. Wasn't sold on her looks, either. Maybe her label had trouble marketing her armpits. 
I loved the E-Team Drugstore Cowboy Mix of "Where Have All The Cowboys Gone?".  | |
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CalhounSq said: BlaqueKnight said: Joss Stone = product marketed to white folks with the intent of using the race card for support (aka the Elvis/Eminem syndrome) "If we can get the blacks to validate her, she can get soul props which give her sooper-cool points which translates into record sales!"-----some record exec. She can sing; but so can Monica and a whole host of other sistas on the charts as well as any youth choir singer in any Baptist chruch across the country. The "white factor" makes her seem special, but really she's not. As far as I can tell, she's on the same level as Fergie from Black Eyed Peas and Anastascia.
Alicia Keys - poor little mixed girl from Brooklyn - another product of marketing. Pop product with an edge. She's "street", she can sing and get this...she's a "classically trained" (insert other buzzwords here) pianist. She's talented. Anyone who says otherwise is jealous or lying to themselves. A decent singer, but again - nothing incredible as a vocalist. Her "training" is her undoing. Structure rules her music and restrains her creatively; well, that and the label geeks demanding a hit from her every 30 seconds. She's really hip hop at heart, she just happens to have talent in another genre. I've never seen an artist try so hard to infuse hip-hop into pop/R&B and fail so miserably at it. She's got all of the puzzle pieces, she's just not bright enough to figure out where they go. Also, white males are controlling both thier careers. No wonder they seem so fucked up. Clive knows how to pick 'em, but what happens from there is usually a disaster these days. I just hope both these young women can juice these fools for all they can get. They are product. If Alicia Keys looked like Fantasia from American "Idle", she wouldn't have a record deal. If Joss was dark-skinned and "nappy headed", she wouldn't have a record deal either. They sign pin-ups these days and will occasionally sign pure talent (Peep: Lizz Wright)out of guilt and demand from the public. Both of these women have skillz, yet neither is so vastly talented that they merit being called "special". Not special like Miles Davis was to jazz or like Aretha Franklin is to R&B, at least. Essentially, they will both be out of a career in 5 to 8 years if they don't make a mark in some way other than in CD sales. You gotta move hearts to truly stay relevant. I love it when Blaque rolls in, hits the nail on the head & bounces   I'm gonna have to rescind my proposal from the other thread. 
Blaque is right about their relative talents. I've heard Joss' voice and it's okay, but I couldn't name any of her songs. Alicia is talented but again, nothing she's done compels me to buy her albums. I've got family members that can sing better than both of them. The fact that there are many great voices out there is part of the reason these girls have record deals. There has to be an angle for these companies to market their artist. It's not just the non-blacks that are getting by like this. Brandy, Janet, Ashanti, Beyonce... none of them have the best voices. It takes more than that to be a "success". If the industry waited around for the true talents they wouldn't survive because the Miles Davis' of this world are few and far between. So we should quit knocking these girls for what they aren't. I don't see why y'all get so riled up about what these companies throw their money away on. It's their money to waste. That doesn't stop the talented people from doing what they love. If you want to play music or sing you can do it outside of the industry. In fact that's the best way to do it. |
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BlaqueKnight said: You gotta move hearts to truly stay relevant.
There! Thats the reason why these young bucks to don't mentain their careers. They ain't got no substance or depth in their craft. When artists can't make people share their pain & joy, they're nothing! | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Joss Stone = product marketed to white folks with the intent of using the race card for support (aka the Elvis/Eminem syndrome) "If we can get the blacks to validate her, she can get soul props which give her sooper-cool points which translates into record sales!"-----some record exec. She can sing; but so can Monica and a whole host of other sistas on the charts as well as any youth choir singer in any Baptist chruch across the country. The "white factor" makes her seem special, but really she's not. As far as I can tell, she's on the same level as Fergie from Black Eyed Peas and Anastascia.
Alicia Keys - poor little mixed girl from Brooklyn - another product of marketing. Pop product with an edge. She's "street", she can sing and get this...she's a "classically trained" (insert other buzzwords here) pianist. She's talented. Anyone who says otherwise is jealous or lying to themselves. A decent singer, but again - nothing incredible as a vocalist. Her "training" is her undoing. Structure rules her music and restrains her creatively; well, that and the label geeks demanding a hit from her every 30 seconds. She's really hip hop at heart, she just happens to have talent in another genre. I've never seen an artist try so hard to infuse hip-hop into pop/R&B and fail so miserably at it. She's got all of the puzzle pieces, she's just not bright enough to figure out where they go. Also, white males are controlling both thier careers. No wonder they seem so fucked up. Clive knows how to pick 'em, but what happens from there is usually a disaster these days. I just hope both these young women can juice these fools for all they can get. They are product. If Alicia Keys looked like Fantasia from American "Idle", she wouldn't have a record deal. If Joss was dark-skinned and "nappy headed", she wouldn't have a record deal either. They sign pin-ups these days and will occasionally sign pure talent (Peep: Lizz Wright)out of guilt and demand from the public. Both of these women have skillz, yet neither is so vastly talented that they merit being called "special". Not special like Miles Davis was to jazz or like Aretha Franklin is to R&B, at least. Essentially, they will both be out of a career in 5 to 8 years if they don't make a mark in some way other than in CD sales. You gotta move hearts to truly stay relevant. Actually alicia is from harlem. But I feel you if she looked like Meshell Ndegochelo (who is waaaaay beter than both) she wouldn't get as much props. shes nice to look at tho. There are some ladies that are just as talented check out Lizz Fields (Jill Scott Back up singer) Yazarah N'Dambi Goepele venus Malone and others [Edited 1/18/05 12:25pm] "Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine" | |
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whodknee said: CalhounSq said: I love it when Blaque rolls in, hits the nail on the head & bounces I'm gonna have to rescind my proposal from the other thread.
Blaque is right about their relative talents. I've heard Joss' voice and it's okay, but I couldn't name any of her songs. Alicia is talented but again, nothing she's done compels me to buy her albums. I've got family members that can sing better than both of them. The fact that there are many great voices out there is part of the reason these girls have record deals. There has to be an angle for these companies to market their artist. It's not just the non-blacks that are getting by like this. Brandy, Janet, Ashanti, Beyonce... none of them have the best voices. It takes more than that to be a "success". If the industry waited around for the true talents they wouldn't survive because the Miles Davis' of this world are few and far between. So we should quit knocking these girls for what they aren't. I don't see why y'all get so riled up about what these companies throw their money away on. It's their money to waste. That doesn't stop the talented people from doing what they love. If you want to play music or sing you can do it outside of the industry. In fact that's the best way to do it. So why was real, genuine talent so easy to come by in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, but is almost suppressed these days? | |
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BlaqueKnight said: I think someone misunderstood the comparisons. All of the females I mentioned have talent, and all of them lack that "it" that makes people wonder when is the next great thing coming from them. They are on the where are they now list at the moment. Artists like D'Angelo got a whole fanbase hanging, waiting on something new.
Lol @ "the armpits" thing. Paula was dating a brotha back then. I guess he dug her even if she wouldn't shave.  | |
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The only ones who are missing out on an abundance of real talent are the ones who are waiting for Clear Channel to feed it to them. Good music is all over the web. I can't begin to name how many artists that I like that I've learned of by word of mouth. Top 40 radio, for all intents and purposes simply serves as a necessary evil. Its really dead, they just don't know it yet. LAbels could care less about quality. They want big numbers of first week sales, just like the movie industry. | |
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VoicesCarry said: So why was real, genuine talent so easy to come by in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, but is almost suppressed these days?
Because real, genuine talent is not as easy to sell as sex is. In other words, it doesn't always come in a nice "toight" package. You put a hot babe on the cover of a music mag and folks' curiosity is immediately peaked. The record execs are not the only ones to blame here. They are in fact giving many people/listeners what they want. The world as a whole has changed dramatically since the 50's, 60's & 70's. Many of us want to hear meaningful music that moves us deeply and inspires us, but many others do not. They simply want to be entertained (not that there's anything wrong with that). If the industry feels that the latter is where the $$ is, then that's what will be aggressively marketed; that's what the t.v. and radio will be inundated with. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: The only ones who are missing out on an abundance of real talent are the ones who are waiting for Clear Channel to feed it to them. Good music is all over the web. I can't begin to name how many artists that I like that I've learned of by word of mouth. Top 40 radio, for all intents and purposes simply serves as a necessary evil. Its really dead, they just don't know it yet. LAbels could care less about quality. They want big numbers of first week sales, just like the movie industry.
My comment only referred to the industry, however. The talent - and real musicians - are still there. "If the industry waited around for the true talents...." is a copout statement as far as I'm concerned - it justifies the current situation. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: VoicesCarry said: So why was real, genuine talent so easy to come by in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, but is almost suppressed these days?
Because real, genuine talent is not as easy to sell as sex is. In other words, it doesn't always come in a nice "toight" package. You put a hot babe on the cover of a music mag and folks' curiosity is immediately peaked. The record execs are not the only ones to blame here. They are in fact giving many people/listeners what they want. The world as a whole has changed dramatically since the 50's, 60's & 70's. Many of us want to hear meaningful music that moves us deeply and inspires us, but many others do not. They simply want to be entertained (not that there's anything wrong with that). If the industry feels that the latter is where the $$ is, then that's what will be aggressively marketed; that's what the t.v. and radio will be inundated with. Yes, I understand the economics behind it. whodnee was essentially saying that the industry does what it has to do because the talent isn't there to support it, which isn't true. That's what I was referring to. | |
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VoicesCarry said: OdysseyMiles said: Because real, genuine talent is not as easy to sell as sex is. In other words, it doesn't always come in a nice "toight" package. You put a hot babe on the cover of a music mag and folks' curiosity is immediately peaked. The record execs are not the only ones to blame here. They are in fact giving many people/listeners what they want. The world as a whole has changed dramatically since the 50's, 60's & 70's. Many of us want to hear meaningful music that moves us deeply and inspires us, but many others do not. They simply want to be entertained (not that there's anything wrong with that). If the industry feels that the latter is where the $$ is, then that's what will be aggressively marketed; that's what the t.v. and radio will be inundated with. Yes, I understand the economics behind it. whodnee was essentially saying that the industry does what it has to do because the talent isn't there to support it, which isn't true. That's what I was referring to. I'm with you. I believe the talent is everywhere, but I also believe that we are going to have to look for it ourselves more and more. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: I was wonderin' if anybody caught that. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Yes, I understand the economics behind it. whodnee was essentially saying that the industry does what it has to do because the talent isn't there to support it, which isn't true. That's what I was referring to. Yeah, seems they are always saying that. Isn't it funny that the "they" are usually A&R people who don't play music and wouldn't know the truth if it hit them in the jaw and record execs just trying to make sure the next payment on their yacht is guarenteed. Bitches. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: I think someone misunderstood the comparisons. All of the females I mentioned have talent, and all of them lack that "it" that makes people wonder when is the next great thing coming from them. They are on the where are they now list at the moment. Artists like D'Angelo got a whole fanbase hanging, waiting on something new.
Lol @ "the armpits" thing. Paula was dating a brotha back then. I guess he dug her even if she wouldn't shave. Well, I think that Alicia has that "it" that makes me wonder what she's gonna do next, but I'm a total fan so I hear and see a lot of things that she could build off of. I have tons of audio that showcases a bit more than what she puts out, but since she don't put it out, I see how I can stand alone. Your right about D'Angelo. His fanbase is patiently waiting, but just because they are waiting doesn't mean that he will deliver. Jill Scott had people waiting for three years but I've read a lot about the disappointment in her album so having people wait or wanting more can be a good and bad thing, unless your talking about solid fanbases that will purchase the record regardless. Studiotraffic-One of the fastest ways to get payed on the net! | |
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Have you been to Okayplayer.com? D's fanbase is ROCK SOLID. My comments are not to discredit any of the artists mentioned - mainly to expose the intentions of the labels in regards to these artists' careers as opposed to their artistry. They both are talented. In the grand scheme, neither is "special". | |
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BlaqueKnight said: [color=blue][b]The only ones who are missing out on an abundance of real talent are the ones who are waiting for Clear Channel to feed it to them
Well said. and 4 the record, I could care less what any1 says, Joss Stone rocks my socks. Listen to me on The House of Pop Culture podcast on itunes http://itunes.apple.com/u...d438631917 | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Have you been to Okayplayer.com? D's fanbase is ROCK SOLID. My comments are not to discredit any of the artists mentioned - mainly to expose the intentions of the labels in regards to these artists' careers as opposed to their artistry. They both are talented. In the grand scheme, neither is "special".
Yes, I go there lol. That's why I said that you were right about his fans waiting. My whole thing was the "waiting to see what's next" doesn't always equal longevity because not all of these artists deliver (ex. Jill Scott), but it seems as though your talking about solid fanbases that will always stick by the artist, so I see where your coming from. Studiotraffic-One of the fastest ways to get payed on the net! | |
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npgmaverick said: I could care less what any1 says, Joss Stone rocks my socks.
Mine too. Keep your headphones on. | |
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