Blimey!

Most folks who replied ain't rating Joss & Alicia at all. I'm surprised. I don't think they are perfect by any means but they have bags of talent and potential.

You guys are tough. Name me so more promising YOUNG artists. Just cause they have lots of exposure and critical accaliam people want to knock them and compare them with folks who had careers over decades. I wonder what you guys would have said about an 18 year old Aretha Franklin.

I also think its crap that you have to 'live the life' to have real soul, that's just marketing shite. Its art people. Sometimes its true from the heart sometimes its role playing. You can't tell the difference, chumps.

BlaqueKnight said:

I don't see colour when I listen to music. It's either good or it's not.

COMON said:

An 18-year-old Aretha could sing.

COMON said:

An 18-year-old Aretha could sing.

VoicesCarry said:

and real soul, not corporate soul

VoicesCarry said:

and real soul, not corporate soul

Joss Stone = product marketed to white folks with the intent of using the race card for support (aka the Elvis/Eminem syndrome) "If we can get the blacks to validate her, she can get soul props which give her sooper-cool points which translates into record sales!"-----some record exec. She can sing; but so can Monica and a whole host of other sistas on the charts as well as any youth choir singer in any Baptist chruch across the country. The "white factor" makes her seem special, but really she's not. As far as I can tell, she's on the same level as Fergie from Black Eyed Peas and Anastascia.

BlaqueKnight said:

I would agree with your argument if it weren't for one thing - her sound is not one that's marketable to today's pop audience. I think that's readily apparent from the get-go. If she was making a different type of music, music that's more Top 40 friendly, I would agree with you completely.

RipHer2Shreds said:

He's talking about soul props, not pop props.

And if Norah Jones is marketable, so is Joss.
[Edited 1/17/05 15:46pm]

VoicesCarry said:

If he's talking about soul props then the argument carries less weight. Soul records tend to sell less than pop records. I don't like her music or her voice because she's a novelty. I can be a sucker for a Big Mac ad, but I ain't gonna be sold on an artist because she's a gimmick. And Norah Jones doesn't even figure into this equation. Different type of music. The music world was in dire need of a new, young voice for the over-40s who needed somebody to call their own and she filled the void. lol

RipHer2Shreds said:

Nah, the label got the UK media to hype Joss to fever pitch - I can't tell you how many articles I read claiming she was "the next Aretha". This is long before she broke in the US. They were fully expecting her to do blockbuster numbers, which she hasn't, and now they've somewhat given up on her. Her first full-length LP was a complete disappointment, sales-wise.

And Norah does figure into the equation. She isn't a pop star, but she can be marketed - that's my point; anything can be marketed to sell. And Joss was planned as a soul prodigy with pop crossover appeal - that's what BlaqueKnight was talking about.
[Edited 1/17/05 16:11pm]

VoicesCarry said:

You're really hung up on the Aretha thing. I've never heard it before, but I've not read much about her beyond the liner notes on her albums and a few articles. I don't think of her and Aretha even in the same category, so somebody else's take on her has nothing to do with my like/dislike for her.

And I didn't say she couldn't be marketed. What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to me that she was being packaged as a Top 40 performer who does soul. And if that was their intent, they failed miserably. Doesn't bother me none that her records haven't sold. To be honest, a lot of what I like doesn't sell. I've gotten used to it.

RipHer2Shreds said:

The first EP was to establish her "soul roots", then they were going for broke with the album. It's a pretty obvious setup, and yes, they did fail.

VoicesCarry said:

Well, this much I know. Initially, they were going for a different sound for her, more along the lines of what is today called teen pop. For one reason or another, that changed and Betty Wright got involved. That's one of the reasons I like her music - I'm a fan of Betty Wright, and a lot of her music has a similar enough sound that I think of the Clean Up Woman herself when I hear it.

I read somewhere - probably allmusic - that she cut a demo of On the Radio to get her deal. That I would not want to hear!

Alicia's a good musician, but Joss Stone has an incredible voice. Anyone who says otherwise is just hatin', because they have nothing better to do with their time. She's got a soulful voice, and I can only hope that her music continues to get better as her career progresses.

VoicesCarry said:

If he's talking about soul props then the argument carries less weight. Soul records tend to sell less than pop records. I don't like her music or her voice because she's a novelty. I can be a sucker for a Big Mac ad, but I ain't gonna be sold on an artist because she's a gimmick. And Norah Jones doesn't even figure into this equation. Different type of music. The music world was in dire need of a new, young voice for the over-40s who needed somebody to call their own and she filled the void. lol

And Joss was planned as a soul prodigy with pop crossover appeal - that's what BlaqueKnight was talking about.

Let me make this CLEAR. Its no secret that there is a certain respect throughout the industry for black gospel & R&B singers. If you think its not, then you have a bit of knowledge to gain. Why do you think certain white rock bands have 2 to 3 black women singing background on tour with them? (I won't name names)
There is a degree of validation that goes on when the "community" accepts a white artist who does what we do. Its a HARD road to cross. Its an industry thumbs up moreso than a general public thumbs up. They will sell you whatever they want to and you WILL buy it. The numbers speak for themselves. YOU WILL BUY IT. If Joss Stone sounded like an everyday pop chick, there'd be a whole diferent focus on her marketing. A "black sounding" white girl has a market of her own. Joss is not the first to be taken in this direction, so don't front.
If Christina A. didn't pass the black community, she would have flopped...and hold onto your seat when I say this: SO WOULD MADONNA. (you had to be there) Joss Stone isn't filling some missing void. That's bullshit. She's a bandage rather than a cure.

Norah Jones IS marketable. So is Joss. So is Alicia. NONE of them have staying power. A pretty face only goes so far. That works for the horny 20-something men who fantasize about f*cking them and the teen girls who want to look like them. Marketing depts. are screwed these days because they use sex to sell so many artists. That is why artists fade so fast. Unless something changes in these women's lives, they will be gone faster than you can say Robyn, Paula Cole, Natalie Merchant or Diana King. The rule these days is get a fanbase as fast as you can before you're oversaturated. Without something DEEPER, this doesn't usually happen. This is completely irrelevant with regards to how talented they are or how well they are accepted. Its BUSINESS. Its all about the V-I-D-E-O! Gotta look good to sell good - that's how labels see it.[/b][/color]

EXACTLY. Thank you, VC.


Let me make this CLEAR. Its no secret that there is a certain respect throughout the industry for black gospel & R&B singers. If you think its not, then you have a bit of knowledge to gain. Why do you think certain white rock bands have 2 to 3 black women singing background on tour with them? (I won't name names)
There is a degree of validation that goes on when the "community" accepts a white artist who does what we do. Its a HARD road to cross. Its an industry thumbs up moreso than a general public thumbs up. They will sell you whatever they want to and you WILL buy it. The numbers speak for themselves. YOU WILL BUY IT. If Joss Stone sounded like an everyday pop chick, there'd be a whole diferent focus on her marketing. A "black sounding" white girl has a market of her own. Joss is not the first to be taken in this direction, so don't front.
If Christina A. didn't pass the black community, she would have flopped...and hold onto your seat when I say this: SO WOULD MADONNA. (you had to be there) Joss Stone isn't filling some missing void. That's bullshit. She's a bandage rather than a cure. The problem is label execs are too f*cking stupid to fill the so-called void with a grown woman rather than a 20-something Playboy/Stuff/FHM magazine model with a little bit of talent and no life experience rather than signing women who have lived and have something to write about and somewhere to sing FROM aside from 2nd hand experience. If you think people can't tell when its from the heart, you sorely underestimate peoples' perceptions.
Norah Jones IS marketable. So is Joss. So is Alicia. NONE of them have staying power. A pretty face only goes so far. That works for the horny 20-something men who fantasize about f*cking them and the teen girls who want to look like them. Marketing depts. are screwed these days because they use sex to sell so many artists. That is why artists fade so fast. Unless something changes in these women's lives, they will be gone faster than you can say Robyn, Paula Cole, Natalie Merchant or Diana King. The rule these days is get a fanbase as fast as you can before you're oversaturated. Without something DEEPER, this doesn't usually happen. This is completely irrelevant with regards to how talented they are or how well they are accepted. Its BUSINESS. Its all about the V-I-D-E-O! Gotta look good to sell good - that's how labels see it.

Now wait a minute! Give Norah and Alicia a little credit. They are talented girls who happen to be pretty, which is the icing on the cake. Having nice looks isn't their fault.

I wouldn't go that far and say that they aren't talented or don't have staying power because that's not true, atleast in my opinion. I'm not huge on Norahs music but it seems as though she could go different direction with her music aswell as Alicia. Alicia, especially, dips into a varitey of genres and if she has the guts to get better than her career should be a lot more interesting than it is now.

There are plenty of ladies that are more talented than these two but these two are nearly the only two females that could go in different directions with their music and sound---and on top of that be the sole creator in it. That don't happen very often, nowadays anyway.
[Edited 1/17/05 22:45pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

Didn't Natalie Merchant have a semi-long career with 10,000 Maniacs? I wouldn't put her in the same category as the others.

sextonseven said:

I also don't think Paula Cole should be grouped with those. She actually has genuine talent and is locked in a struggle with her label right now. She was doing distinctly non-commercial music long before the accident that was "I Don't Want To Wait". She still makes a good living playing live gigs, and does session music for various artists. Wasn't sold on her looks, either.

VoicesCarry said:

Maybe her label had trouble marketing her armpits.