namepeace said:

Ok....I still don't understand what it has to do with what I said tho.

Supernova said:

My point was that while Wynton and Crouch were given a lot of time, Burns did a decent job of getting a variety of opinions throughout the commentary, including Branford.

NamePeace this IS a fantastic topic! I also like the analogy you made to the Ms. Pac Man/banana level thing, it cracked me up!


I'm a jazz musician myself but no matter how much I love the music, I realize that the reason that jazz doesn't speak to most people is because it's a bit outdated. Like classical music, it speaks to a society that is largely gone. We may enjoy and find something in it but you can't say that Hearing Ben Webster playing "My Funny Valentine" is a real "now" occurence. Jazz failed to change and as a result, it lost its footing in the music world. It doesn't make me or any of us (I hope!) love it any less, but it isn't very current music. Like most great art, you have to come to it, it's not like most of the pop albums of today that scream for attention and dont' require you to make any real effort to get to know it. Jazz is like a city that allows you to come to it and explore it on your own terms.


I also wanted to touch on soemthing Thunderbird was saying about the teaching aspect of jazz. I have to say, I think you had something there T-bird! A lot of the time, jazz at the university level is treated in much the same way classical music is (I also have a degree in classical guitar). People get this stereotype of a jazz student cooped up in a practice room mindlessly running thru scales and modes. While it is a stereotype, there's a grain of truth to every stereotype. I never really did a whole lot of that myself, I just went out and played and learned that way. I believe that you can read a whole lot about doing something or you can just go out and do it. There's no substitute for experience. But the whole, "You should play a mixolydian scale over a D7" is the way most jazz is taught which is truly unfortunate because jazz is such a personal artform. How would Miles, Bill Evans, John Coltrane, etc. sounded if they had graduated from Berkley?


My dad is a jazz musician and when I was a kid, my parents didnt' own rock records so jazz songs were my first favorite songs. To this day even, when I play rock, R&B, and even some types of classical music, there is a jazz imprint on my playing that I just cant' seem to shake. Jazz is in my soul and removing it would be like....well, I dont' know.


I guess long story short, you have to be a patient person to connect with jazz because it's not going to give you instant gratification the way a Britney Spears album will. Although you may get the instant gratification with the latter, you'll probably find taht you're still hungry when you're done.
[Edited 1/14/05 9:46am]

guitarslinger44 said:

If I had a quarter for every quarter I dropped into that game . . .




As a musician, you know better than I, and I agree that the music is chronologically dated and doesn't pack the same punch it would had I grown up with it. It is not the music of my generation, but it does speak to me in significant ways. When I listen to Miles' "All Blues," or Coltrane's first movement of "A Love Supreme," or Wayne Shorter's "Speak No Evil," or Art Blakey's "Along Came Betty," or Bill Evans' "Time Remembered," those songs have a beauty and a meaning for me like Prince's "Adore" does. Jazz makes emotional connections to those who love it, even though many of its artists passed on generations ago. And your analogy in the last sentence is perfect.



Good points. I do think "teacher" in the sense T-bird meant it is different from what I intended (tho I think he made good points as well). To me, "teacher" meant someone who introduced me to it and taught me that it can have a significance in my life even tho it was a much "older" music.



I can get with that . . . great post!
[Edited 1/14/05 14:04pm]

namepeace said:

Oh, I wasn't talking about their opinions on camera. It was pretty well known before the documentary even aired that Crouch and Wynton were largely consulted about the direction the documentary should go, since Burns didn't know much to begin with.

Supernova said:

All righty.