SassyBritches said:

I'll take that as: "no time soon, buddy."

JANFAN4L said:

sadly, for most of the country that is probably very accurate.

Rhondab said:

i agree!

Rhondab said:

The problem is that there are some people that do care about the bahavior of some performers and use it as an excuse for "what it's doing to our children," i.e. - the white kids in the suburbs. That's when it becomes a problem for most people. It's okay if it stays in the 'hood and only affects minority populations, but once it gets into the mainstream they want it stopped. That's what's happening now, I think. Not only in music (and certainly not just rap), but in film, sports, etc. as well.

To all the black folk in da house, have you ever been over to someone elses house (white) and there's a discussion and then someone starts describing something and then all of a sudden at the top of their lungs the word nigger is yelled at top volume? This has happened to me twice. Both times I was more embarrassed for the person who had their foot firmly in their mouth other then myself. The word hardly causes a wrinkle in my brow but I would think that nigger (nigger mind you, not nigga, which would've had less sting) would be a word that would've been out of the vocabulary while I was in the room. Anyways I just take it as something white folks do and accept it for what it is. No need in getting mad. And besides if these people were truly racist (their deal not mine) then they really must be masochist to share company with me. But I kick myself now for not having more fun with the situation. The next time it happens (likely) I'm gonna get up in a huff, grab my coat, squeeze out a few angry tears if I can, and storm off. Anyways sorry for digressing but I thought it was an amusing anecdote. But what would YOU do?

RipHer2Shreds said:

It's not a "problem" that's exclusive to the hip hop generation. Accusations like this have been around since the Jazz era and the days of Flappers (cigarette smoking white girls, who spun the latest jazz tunes by black artists and wore their skirts at their knees -- :-O "g*d forbid"); the swing/big band era in the '30s and '40s (a.k.a. "n*gg*r/k*ke" music) kids doing the birdland, haunting black clubs, and learning the latest black sub-cultural teenage slang. The zoot suits back then are analogous to the baggy pants and air force ones of today's youth. Even the rock 'n' roll era in the '50s (a.k.a. "jungle music" that was "corrupting our suburban white youth") had its fair share of criticism, etc.

I find it disturbing that people nowadays seem to negate these facts and disproportionately single-out hip hop music as this "sole corruptive force" damaging our teens and causing strife. The whole language behind constructing music as a "problem" is what's problematic.

Rhondab said:

I kinda agree with you, Rhondab, but man, hip-hop has almost become a neo-minstrel show.

JANFAN4L said:

I get what you're saying, and I agree. I'm just talking about this particular aspect of the entertainment industry and how it's singled out. It happened in the 70s and 80s with the metal bands, too. It's easier to blame some performer than look at what's going wrong in your own home.

Black folk should care about how these artists' images are affecting society's images of us. You can say, "why should black people worry about what white people think about them?" My simple response is, because, moreso than any other group, black folk's fortunes are often tied to public perceptions about them. You think black men are locked up in disproportionately high numbers for nothing? Come on.

What is really sad is that many of these cats are blatantly reinforcing horrid stereotypes about black men that go back centuries: sex-starved, criminal-minded lovers of material items and flashy clothes who disdain education.

I stack my love of hip-hop up against anyone else's, any day, but truth is truth.

JANFAN4L said:

Now come on. Unlike jazz, swing, and rock, which were often sanitized before they were co-opted, today's major-label, radio-driven, videoplay hip-hop co-opts the most violent, misogynistic, and ignorant elements, drains them of context, and markets them to impressionable kids and a "mainstream" audience that is already receptive to images of black men as violent, ignorant sex fiends. So this IS different in a few ways.

namepeace said:

i agree that they should care about the images they portray. when you're a public figure, like it or not you are a role model. they such try to be a bit more repsonsible.

right now in our society,a hip-hopper could fart on a record and all the white kid's would buy it up in droves.

wallysafford said:

Eminem's record? Potty humor all over it.

Rhondab said:

I actually do. And that Anna Nicole is making it really hard to be white!

You've got it again, Rhondab. And screw you, Cosby!

glamslamkid said:

And didn't Cosby have a kid while he was still married and do his damndest to cover it up. I wouldn't call that "ghetto" becuase it's offensive and an insult to people in the ghetto!

Those in multi-million dollar glass houses...

namepeace said:

We're definitely working in a different market.

Granted, music IS more explicit nowadays (you have people like Nelly swiping credit cards down the a**cracks of strippers on basic cable, for Pete's sake!). Jazz, swing and rock were expropriated, but so was hip hop. It was stolen from the people in a cultural sense and mass marketed for commercial appeal. That's why its quality has dwindled down to near-zero as of late.

The "ghetto" (or the "ghetto mentality") was here long before hip hop.

I'm not apologizing or making excuses for rap music, but the "problem" with "ghetto people," touched on in dancerella's initial posting, shouldn't lie solely on hip hop -- I can point fingers everywhere (ClearChannel, Radio One, The Department of Education, etc.) But, I do feel all of you when you say people like Nelly, P. Diddy, Master P, Snoop and the like are reinforcing a "neo-minstrelsy" (and scarily enough, I've been noticing this newfound synergy between hip hop and the porn industry). Plus, Kanye West even had the nerve to proudly dub his album "The College Dropout" -- in a Bush/anti-Affirmative Action climate where black kids aren't attending college enough as it is.

We're definitely moving in the wrong direction.

The hip hop industry should be held accountable for the images it disseminates throughout the universe. You and I can only do so much "damage control" as consumers. I could easily take the Bill Cosby route and say f**k it, "let's just blame ourselves only," but NO. This pendulum was set into motion long before hip hop took center stage. It's in those inner cities we're so scared to rectify and the "ghettoes" we frequently neglect. The ever-present division between suburbia and our urban cores. The cyclical prison culture nearly 1 out of every 3 black men experiences. The inner-city public schools we dare not pour money into and, at the end of day, that young black youth who (tragically) looks up to a video screen for "inspiration."

Hip hop is what's *now* for this generation.

The "problems" many have with it are a reflection of larger, complex issues. They have less to do with hip hop and MORE to do with the problems we won't face in our own backyards, coupled with the history of U.S. public policies.


.
[Edited 12/15/04 18:50pm]

CynicKill said:

I think those incidences and people are despicable and it says something about people that they can use that word and not even think about it (not that controlling it says your not a racist...it just shouldn't be in your vocabulary period!).

I saw this great episode of "Girlfriends" (yeah, I watch "Girlfriends" in reruns now) today and Lynn, who was adopted, has a white sister who comes over to LA (I think...this is where the show is set, right?) and acts black. At one point, this white sister, Lynn and Maya(one of three friends who actually likes the girl and my favorite character on the show), are in hair place getting braids. Jay-Z's "H to the Izzo" comes on and Maya and the white girl start singing along to it and in a moment of ignorance, the white girl starts singing along to the song and even the N-word when Jay-Z says it. The radio is off, everyone is silent. I honestly did not see this twist coming but Maya didn't want to have anything to do with her, nor did anyone else in the salon and Lynn drags her outside and said she just shouldn't use that word ever (and surprisingly, the white sister was surprised at the reaction) and tells her to stop acting black. Now what do you do in a case like that? It was a really good episode that dealt with race identity and actually had little to do with her saying the word (it eventually become resolved with the white sister buying the namable characters she offended like Maya and the main hair designers drinks and talking it over...which was done off camera!).

Maybe this should be in the P&R forum?

namepeace said:

yes..its awful at times..BUT do you get embarrassed? I'm less concerned about what white ppl think about Lil jon and more about how it effects my kid, etc. That was my point. I was really just directing my comments to the initial statement of "what do white ppl think".

But also, its about balancing the images. We don't need to shut up 50 cent but we need to balance 50 cent with the images of black scientists, doctors, etc, etc. I think its a lack of balance nowadays....its all one sided, one mentality.

VinnyM27 said:

VinnyM27,

Here's a question for you.
How does one act black?

Is it the way Bill Cosby presents himself or is it the way some of the rappers on this awards show have been described?

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

VinnyM27 said:

This episode is on now! I saw it before, and I remember just knowing she was going to drop the N-bomb during that Jay-Z song.

Lynn's sister goes from being "Teena Marie"/"Chaka Blond" to looking like a Katie Couric wannabee. Her temporary makeover is for Lynn. Ironically, who she is and her love of black culture evolved out of her love for Lynn as well.

Anyway, about award shows.... I really don't watch them much anymore. If I had to choose some favorite's they would be the Essence Awards, and the NAACP awards. Haven't watched either in a while. They haven't turned gangsta, too, have they?

theAudience said:

That was the episode of the show and they stated she acted black. You'd have to see it. That was the major issue of the show and I'd think you'd have to see it and you'd get the message. The girl, who wore afro-centric clothes,, including a head wrap, knew a lot about African art and sculptures, made good "soul" food, etc. I wouldn't say she was acting postively or negatively but embraced many things that are specfic to African American (or for that matter, African) culture. At one point, Joan recomends they play some music....Enya or something more upbeat...the new Britney Spears. She, and her friend who had hair extensions, were accused of acting white. These weren't my words, it was the show. Again, it was very interesting.

UptownDeb said:

I just really have gotten into the habit of watching it in syndication (I assume with syndication that they must play the same episodes in every market but the times are up to them...here on the Detroit stations, they play it at 3:30 and 4 (two different episodes). It's a really good episode and a very good show (it's like a sitcom but with a story and characters you care about).

VinnyM27 said:

That sounds like a good episode. But it kind of reminds me of that great character from "Whoopi", you remember the white girl who sounded "black". But the whole point of that character to me was that hip-hop culture is pretty much a culture of it's own. Chinese kids (Ocean's 12), white kids, puerto rican kids and black kids aren't really acting black, they're acting hip-hop. The clothes, language and attitude has become really universal now. Eminem is a perfect example. I mean can anyone with any honesty say he's faking it? It comes off so natural because it is.

First I must say that I am damn proud that we all can have a discussion about our fears/opinions/beliefs without resorting to name-calling.


But I wanna say this...
To anyone who says "there is no such thing as acting black", there certainly is. Saying there is no way to act black denies that we as black people in this country actually do have a culture of our own.

The black culture is colorful and loud and interesting and ever changing, but it is not a free-for-all for others to pick and choose which aspects they would love to duplicate in their own lives, while never bothering to try to understand the actual people.

This goes for every other culture as well. I remember 4 years ago when being latino was "in". Culture is much MUCH deeper than MTV, BET and VH1.

remember,that when push comes to shove-
"we're all just the same,it's all just a game...."

This is why I never even watch those hip-hop awards shows.They're absolutely pathetic.These "gangsta rappers" walk around,thinking they're the coolest cats on earth,but all they're really doing is reinforcing negative stereotypes.They're influencing our youth to behave this way...speak in "ghetto slang",wear pants that are practically falling off their asses,and act like wild animals on the loose.So sad.

DavidEye said:

come on now...."ghetto slang" isn't the problem....its not knowing when NOT to speak slang is the problem.....every generation has a way of speaking...but its that some of these folks can't speak any other way. Difference.

Rhondab said:

True enough

Rhondab said:

that's true. they should at least know when to turn it on and off.

I don't see it as the artist's fault, it's MTV & BET & record execs who are promoting those kind of images.

All the artists can be accused of is selling out, and while I hate what I see on TV & hear on the radio, which one of us wouldn't be tempted to be a gangsta rapper/ boy band sellout multimillionaire?

Though it does give me that much more respect for any artist who is bold enough to be an individual & not follow the herd.