Nice posts guys!

dag said:

Why thank ya, thank ya.

Luv4oneanotha said:

Just like an acquittal did a lot for O.J. Simpson.

P.S. Jackson's image has also been fucked by:

-plastic surgery (considering he has to struggle to look human sometimes)
-egomania
-the whole "I like to sleep with little boys" thing, REGARDLESS of molestation, really freaks a lot of people out; he can justify it any way he wants, but the bottom line is that it's a really bad idea to continue doing this

VoicesCarry said:

They can get over the plastic surgery
they can get over his egomaniacal ways
what they can't get over is
buying a pedophiles new record

OJ's aquittal didn't mean D*ck because the man had a ton of evidence against him

hey P-diddy was aquitted and he's the love of everybody (cept me)

you can't compare different cases

Voices the man is an Icon, his image isn't completely destroyed cause somebody out there is still buying his records and still watching him on T.V.
i remember back in 01
alot of people where happy MJ was out again
[Edited 12/11/04 9:22am]

Luv4oneanotha said:

C'mon, you talk to the average non-MJ-fan and he's a complete joke! I'm not saying that to be mean, but to them he's either a freak, a pedophile or both - and this general consensus hasn't changed since the original allegations. If he gets acquitted all you're gonna hear at the water cooler is, "well, he paid his way out of it" or shit like that. Of course people are still gonna buy his records - there are a lot of die-hards out there, and the global community really doesn't give a shit about his supposed pedophilia compared to the US, where his album sales have suffered way more than in international markets.

But I think you should face facts - to the average person, his image is completely shot.
[Edited 12/11/04 9:26am]

If Michael Jackson is to be looked at as crazy for his love of children then throw the book at Captain Noah, Mr. Rogers, Bozo the Clown, Barney, Sesame Street, the crew of The Electric Company, Hasbro, Dr Seuss, etc..... and any other adult that has any true adoration for the well-being of children! Face it, Michael Jackson from the first case was set up from someone seeking money who is not afraid to "pimp out" their own children to receive it. That is why the rich hang with the rich. Cuz, when you get some po folk that have nothing around "millions" they gonna lose their natural mind. They will actually brainwash themselves into believing their own lie. If anyone can PLEASE answer me this one question. If someone is supposed to be a pedophile, why on Earth would you grant an interview in your home with the same boy your molesting????? And have the footage shot on "live" tv for the world to see? Folks, he voluntarily gave the interview and granted access to the world to see that he cared about children all over the world. Now, you "know" that he helped that boy out with his medical bills in reference to his "cancer". You think Michael Jackson would molest that sick kid? He became close to the family because of the childs illness! Just as he did with the boy Ryan Conner before he died of AIDS! The witch hunt in this country has GOT to stop! Anytime a black man makes millions of dollars you are going to have "some" prejudiced, bigoted folk try to bring them down in any way possible. That is the "truth"! This country needs a reality check!!

VoicesCarry said:

I still have to disagree
I don't hang out with MJ "Fanatics"
personally i find Mj fanatics "A Joke" as you said (no offence to any of ya on the org)
but i remember right after he came out with Nsync, people where just glad he came back into the lime light
everybody was mike's back
of course you had your occaisional hater, but the average joe seemed pleased
even My uncles who'd made fun of me for liking mike
where going "damn mike's still got it", they liked you rock my world and the video
of course they made fun of the way he looks, but he was respected

I tell you if Michael Jackson is aquitted
and begins to make
GOOD MUSIC, and stops acting like a fool in public
his popularity will increase
[Edited 12/11/04 9:34am]

Luv4oneanotha said:

Yeah, GOOD MUSIC would help the most, IMHO.

But I'm glad we can agree to disagree on this point.

jojofran said:

I'm sorry, when did any of those people sleep with children, kiss them, cuddle them, etc. the way MJ does? If Dr. Seuss had been reading Horton Hatches An Egg while cuddling some pre-pubescent teens that didn't belong to him in a king size bed in his huge estate, I don't think he'd have quite the same following.

You have to understand that that is what people find fucked up - not the fact that MJ wants to help kids.
[Edited 12/11/04 9:40am]

VoicesCarry said:

Yeah, I agree with the O.J. reference, but also remember that O.J. lost the civil case against him under a much less burden of proof.(Wasn't it wrongful death??? I can't remember..) So as far as public opinion was concerned, it was either a draw OR the civil case had the CORRECT verdict. To be honest, I'm not even sure about the O.J. case. I would have to really study it before I could actually form an opinion as to his guilt or innocence. I will say this, however, O.J. case is a PERFECT example of the media and public speculating and assuming his guilt BEFORE the trial actually happened. There are just so many variables. Johnny Cochran was brilliant at taking the early mistakes that were made by the L.A.P.D., D.A.'s office, and the prosecution and exploiting them to the defense's advantage, but the bottom line is that those mistakes were made, period. So it is NOT out of the realm of possibilty that O.J. is, in fact, not-guilty. I know that might be an unpopular statement, but one has to really look at how these facts translated to the jury AND the judge's instructions. I'm telling ya, one has to be careful in these situations.

The thing with the sleeping with little boys and slumber parties, I just don't think that Michael feels that he is doing ANYTHING wrong. And really, IS he doing anything wrong, per se? Obviously, his behavior is "non-traditional" to say the very least, but as long as there is nothing "sexual" about it and his intentions are innocent, what is the harm in with the slumber parties? That said, in regard to public the behavior is taboo and suspect, so if I were advising Michael, I would certainly tell him that if he values his career and rep, he might want to consider nixing the slumber parties, but Michael seems to be defiantly head-strong, so I'm not sure if any "advice" has done or will ever do any good.
[Edited 12/11/04 9:56am]

VoicesCarry said:

Oh, scuse' me.. Were you there???? My bad... give me the account play by play since you actually saw him do these things.

jojofran said:

Excuse my friend voices he's a little bit"in your face"
what he meant was
Michael naively admitted that these things where going on in his estate
its bad enough people where assuming this
but now he blantly admitted it

If Mr. Seuss admitted he was sleeping with children
then the same thing would most likely happen to him
Mj basically got burnt by his own doing

jojofran said:

Considering he's actually SAID MANY TIMES THAT HE'S DONE THESE THINGS, I don't know why I should have to.

Isel said:

Exactly!
Jackson doesn't think he's done anything wrong
so he's being punished for caring for "all the children of the world"
as he puts it
Sadly the Public Does not give a shyt
they put 2 and 2 together and think hey "it must be true"
From a legal perspective its not that easy
frankly speaking
you have to be either a hardcore Mj fan
or an emphatic intellectual to believe theirs a possibility mj might be innocent

VoicesCarry said:

Again, again, again... What "pedophile" would invite the whole world to see the same kid he was molesting on national television in an open interview??? Secondly, he "knew" the child from him fighting a killer diesese CANCER. That was the initial encounter. Again, you are assuming since the boy slept in the same room on the "floor"... which by the way the youth admitted he tried to sleep in the bed with Michael but he told him "no" sleep on the floor. That is as much as Michael admitted to in regards to "this" case. I have the entire interview on tape. Maybe you should look at it "again."

jojofran said:

THE PUBLIC DOES NOT CARRRRRE
if it weren't for the legal system
we would of lynched him a looooong looooong time ago

Luv4oneanotha said:

Speak man.. Make your point or don't say nuthin'. It kills my very soul about the "injustice" system in this country. You got catz that are so willing to jabba jab about nonsensical issues rather than reason in their minds without bias. Again, if Michael Jackson is suspect... Sesame Street, Disney, Mr. Rogers and all them other catz should be suspect. Oh, but no, those dudes cared for kids and are interested in child development. Yeah, right!
[Edited 12/11/04 10:08am]

jojofran said:

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but television actors and childrens authors go home to different lives once the work is done. Michael is considered suspect because he does things that are not normal for 45-year-old men to do. End of story. Why is this so hard to grasp?

VoicesCarry said:

See, you all on the defensive and nobody even put you out there! Your guard is up in a few mere sentances because you think I am playing with your words. THAT IS MY EXACT INTENTION. When you get a bevy of other folk in yo biz'nazz rumor and innuendo become fact. You can't stand the heat roll out. Who made you judge and jury to what is normal and abnormal? Put yourself on the block and expose some of the things you do. I betcha you will find people who think you a little coo coo! Trust me, some things I do are strange to some. I got a "Tom and Jerry" collection! I am a grown man and I still love them cartoons! Is that abnormal?

jojofran said:

Hmmm.....doesn't sound like I'm the one who's on the defensive.

Anyway, no, liking cartoons from your youth is not abnormal.

But a 45-year-old man in bed with a 13-year-old boy that does not belong to him is.

jojofran said:

I understand what your saying
but hey
thats the way the ball bounces

VoicesCarry said:

I agree with you that Michael's behavior in so far as the slumber parties, particularly with young boys (I haven't heard whether or not little girl's are invited ?) is supsect and NOT the NORM in terms of what society expects from a 45-year-old man. The problem is that as long as these visits have been innocent and improprieties have NOT occurred, then they are LEGAL if not socially acceptable. I'm on the fence on this one coz if I were a member of his family, I would definitely have a heart-to-heart convo with Michael, discouraging this type of activity, no matter how well-meaning his intentions. But it appears to me that people have tried to dissuade him in the past, but Michael simply WILL NOT LISTEN. Consequently, ANOTHER alleged molestation case has reared its ugly head.

In spite of his music brilliance, Michael's pride seems to be affecting his good judgment.Obviously, Michael just doesn't realize that in his defiance to be "who he is," he is just setting himself up, over and over again for these types of allegations. I mean, as much as I love Michael, society IS not going to change for him. For a 45-year-old to have slumber parties with little children WILL NEVER be accepted and always be suspect, legal or not. If a 45-year-old teacher, for example, would invite his elementary school students to his home, to sleep in his bed, wouldn't we all be questioning his judgment, sanity, and intentions?

Of course, most parents would never allow their children to sleep with an adult, in any social setting. But since Michael is a "star" and "multi-millionaire," some parents' judgment is amazingly "impaired" by his celebrity and wealth. As some sort of compromise, if Michael wants to continue to help disadvantaged kids, maybe he should consider having these get-togethers with invited chaperones or maybe even their parents, so his behavior will be above reproach. Hopefully, after he is found innocent of these current charges, then maybe he will be forced to rethink his relationship with these "kids" and their parents.
[Edited 12/11/04 11:21am]

VoicesCarry said:

I am going to be very honest with you... The only reason why I think it is abnormal is because of the way some people may "view" it. It's funny cuz straight dudes stray away from anything relating to "sissified" subjects with the notion that someone, somewhere may "think" we possibly could be gay. I have to say that I am tired of it. Even with my own nephew who is 14, I hug him because I "love" him dearly. There is nothing wrong with that type of love. He's says "awwww Uncle Jo' why you do that?" I tell him because I love him and kids need to hear that. It doesn't make me a sissy or the slightest bit nuts. Society has gone so bezerk that the slightest touch is suspect. Fear is invoking everyone due to the lack of love. My father never hugged me or embraced me once! My brother however today, is bi-sexual. Why? I cannot answer with just one reason but I suspect that it had a lot to do with a lack of fatherly affection and love. Now, on the subject at hand! When the populous starts to understand that racial issues of yesterday are once again running rampid today they will see the hypocrisy in this whole Michael mess. Michael is a victim of many things in his life as an entertainer. Most people can't even begin to imagine how it is to walk in the shoes of this man. I am not a Michael advocate or anything I just am a "justice" freak. Michael is a black man in the eyes of "prejudice" white America who has gotten away with too much in reference to fame and prosperity. Their job is to bring him down with the most viscious accusatory statements as possible. If one but reads "history" they will see the thousands of injustices we have suffered in this country as black men and realise that the notion of a "setup" is not uncommon.

Isel said:

Society is fickle
its always been like this
Author J.M. Barrie befriended a family of 4 boys
and everyone though he was a pedophile and having an affair
Society does not think its NORMAL to befriend children
i dunno
mmm

Isel said:

I agree with you in some issues. But there is nothing wrong with having kids over to enjoy movies and amusement park activities. I am not Michael Jackson and could never give kids those things. But if I could, I would! I had kids come over with my nephew and they have slept on the floor together in a sleeping bag. You know what? Some parents don't want their kids sleeping with other kids! Everyone feels differently about certain things. If one set of parents are raising their kids to one sort of standard and another to a differnt standard, whom is right? The topic of sexual indescretion is something that started to creep into these parties by opposing folk who wish bad on Michael. The bottom line is this, It is up to the parents of the child to say if it was acceptable or not. Clearly, in the beginning, the parent of this child had no problem with it because the trusted Michael and knew it wasn't a problem. His bedroom would probably be like my whole freakin' home anyway. I don't see any harm or danger if the parents agreed with it.

jojofran said:

So, hypothetically, you'd consider it perfectly normal and acceptable if a 45-year-old man invited a 13-year-old unrelated girl (switching the genders here) into his bed for some cuddle time, and although other people might have a problem with this, it might just be because of the way they "view" it.

The police don't share your opinion.

You see, there's a big difference between hugging your nephew and doing what Michael is doing, between befriending children and being so intimate with them, especially ones you are mere acquaintances with. This is not a matter of "sissification", it is a matter of protecting children from potential molestation.
[Edited 12/11/04 11:26am]

VoicesCarry said:

if teh child doesn't oppose and nothing sexual is going on
its quite innocent
I love children too
i love to cuddle with them, play with them
i don't see anything wrong with it
am i potential Offender too?
Of course,
hell i sleep with my 8 year old neighbor when i babysit, why?
because he ask's he can't sleep alone so i get in bed and read him a story,
they're not in my imediate family but i've known them for years and its practically family

Voices what you have to understand is anyone is a potential offender
ANYONE
and its usually not the freaks who are doing it
its usually the Average Joes that are currupting children
your doctors yoru teachers
your next door neighbors like me for instance

its just easier to pin it on the freak
Am i wrong?

Luv4oneanotha said:

Michael is a megastar. He is the Boo Radley of America. It is easy for people to pick on him because they are detached from him by his celebrity. But I cannot blame them for harbouring suspicions.

The problem comes in when people voice their opinion about something, or someone they've never met, and make it the gospel truth (Diane Dimond).

I've don't know Michael Jackson, nor have I been to Neverland. Everybody has their own opinions about Jackson, and his plastic surgeries or his sexual preference, or whatever, but you better be careful calling him a pedophile, because you're calling somebody you never met a criminal, when is insane at best.

I'll criticizes Michael Jackson's music only. That's it. As far as his looks goes, hell, I don't look good my damn self, so I don't have to right to talk about somebody elses looks.

I can't waste my time discussing something I know nothing about, and nowadays, you can't get much truthful information regard Michael Jackson or the case.