kisscamille said:

well of course it doesn't have to be popular to be great
afterall we are at a Prince forum

Steely Dan?
C'om they are like the Broccoli of music,
sure they where cool in the 70's but they havent had a good album out since the early 80's

Luv4oneanotha said:

Actually, before that Grammy winning album they hadn't had an album out at all since 1980.

So many things to comment on in this thread. I hate to criticize one of my favorites (Stevie Wonder) and come to the defense of somebody I don't wholly like as an artist (Eminem), but so be it. Where to start...

First off, I partly agree with Stevie's comment. While I'm not personally offended by Em's "bashing" of MJ in the video and song, I find it in poor taste. Not poor taste as in MJ's beyond parody and mocking, but poor taste as in he is kicking him while he's down. The man's already lost his career, his money by all counts, a lot of his fan base and, by all counts, his sanity. He's too easy a target, and it just seems like a cheap shot. Also, why bother parodying something that's been parodied to death already? I was kinda over the MJ parodies in 1985.

The part of Stevie's argument that doesn't make me comfortable is the implication that Em's success is at the expense of people of color. "He has succeeded on the backs of people predominantly in that lower pay bracket, people of color. So for him to come out like that is bull." I'm not sure point exactly he's trying to make with that comment. Em's never pretended to be something he's not, and he's very aware that he's an oddity in the industry. Had he made it where he is in the biz without the skills to back it up, then I'd see Stevie's point. But the fact is that they are both public figures and are not above being dissected, regardless of their race. It's a bad argument to make.

Secondly, this is about round 45 of the "I don't like him, therefore he doesn't have any talent." This poorly formed argument gets really, really old for me. There are very few people in the music industry who have sustained careers with little or no talent. Before you start listing a string of people, notice that I said "sustained." No matter which way you slice it, and no matter which way you try to attack him, the man's got some serious skills. I don't care if you don't like him; I'm not particularly fond of him myself. Why not recognize his talent and simply say "he's not my cup of tea?" There seem to be a lot of people whose base plan of attack is emphatically denying somebody's talent and saying how much they despise them. It's a boring argument - if you can even call it an argument.

The default criticism of Em for a lot of people is that he's a white man in a predominantly black performance field. That will forever be a detriment, and I'm pretty sure he recognizes that. Why is it a detriment? Because people will always say it is, and the measure of somebody's rhyming skills and lyrical ability is apparently in somebody's skin color. And anybody who says he doesn't have black fans is just being ignorant - I've seen one of his shows, and while there are plenty o' while folks, they're not the only ones there, and they're certainly not the only ones buying his records. He continues to have a career, because he has gained acceptance as a hip-hop artist by the hip-hop community. You may not like it, but it's a fact. Either way, you should get used to him being around, because I don't think he's going anywhere for a long, long time.

RipHer2Shreds said:

Exactly.

I agree with the comment RipHer2Shreds made. Anything we say about Eminem on this site is going to get turned into an "I Hate Eminem" thread. Having been a rap/hip-hop/go-go fan since Grandmaster Flash/Sugarhill Gang days, I'm thankful that we have Eminem, regardless of what color he is. He brings something new and fresh every album he drops. I remember Prince saying recently in the Busines 2.0 article and I quote "Kids 2day should leap-frog over stars of the "past." "Do something NEW.....say something that has NEVER been said b4! Challenge the current system." Well, I would say Eminem is doing a great job.

pkidwell said:

Stevie showing hsi age? Fuck, I'm 19 and think the video's a piece of flaming shit.

RipHer2Shreds said:

I don't dislike Eminem, nor have I ever argued that he doesn't have talent. However, as is the case with most of mainstream music these days, what talent or artistic merits most people who are popular may or not have is greatly infalted by hype and marketing and whatnot. Eminem is a skilled rapper, but he's not the greatest rapper out there, I don't even think he's the greatest white hip-hop artist out there, it's just that he's the most commercially successful rapper and happens to be white. I've usually thought that Eminem's lyrics and music videos are funny, but the joke is already starting to get old and making fun of michael jackson is neither original or necessary. True, Michael and Stevie are misguided and arguably downright stupid to play the race card, but what it comes down to is that Eminem is needlessly lampooning someone who's facing serious problems in their life and has already been made fun of a million times over.

boriquateddy said:

BITCH!

circuit party drugs? OOOOOHHHHH!!!!STEREOTYPES!!! I'M SCARED!!!!

LICK MY BOOTS BITCH!!

jacktheimprovident said:

Isn't that what I already said?

glamslamkid said:

Maybe you should be afraid of your prolapsed rectum...and to think we thought you were a perfect asshole....now shut up and give me a rim job Pussyboy!!!

boriquateddy said:

RIMJOBS???!?! Now you're talking!!!..let me put a bib on first....
[Edited 12/7/04 21:24pm]