My sister Nicole is in that film, but I haven't seen it yet, that's cool somebody made a post about it.

namepeace said:

Justifying interracial relationships by downing and generalizing the black community -- one girl said, "I don't date black men because they all wear sloppy, baggy clothes like FUBU and they beat up their women. They can't be trusted." The white men that she clung to were very unattractive (some even felt uncomfortable being film around her) and she seemed lost. Another black guy was so lost he said, "I remember looking at a photo album and I *discovered* the pictures were of white women" -- later pointing out that many of them did him wrong or used him as a sexual object. Yet, he kept coming back to them anyway. The same black girl who downgraded black men then went on to downgrade other black women: "I'm not like other black girls, I dont wear hootchie clothes."

Trying to "fit in."

The unhealthy preoccupation with "whiteness" -- a lot of those documented had issues with their blackness and they dated whites or idolized their white peers in their suburban or rural communities to say "hey, white community, please accept me, I'm not like them hip hop, thuggy blacks." One girl had such an unhealthy fixation with whiteness and capturing white flesh that it made her seem very pathetic. In another scene, one black guy was literally hugged up on his white punk rock friends and was clinging to their every syllable.

This really gets on my nerves. People are associating all blacks with the hip hop look or lifestyle. People need to realize that hip hop and the whole glamorization of the "thug" look does not apply to every single black person.

Another thing is so-called "ebonics" and people trying to bring it into mainstream language. It is simply hip hop slang that is in style for the moment and hopefully someday will go out of style and something else will come along. Remember the 1970s and sayings like "jive turkey". Who the hell goes around saying that anymore? So why the hell do people want to make hip hop slang something permanent?

People need to realize that the whole hip hop "thug" look has nothing to do with being black. White kids are dressing and acting that way also. I have dated enough blacks to start an episode of "Soul Train" and I would never be caught dead with someone that dresses in "sloppy, baggy clothes".

heybaby said

maybe you need to read her post again. and as for ebonics it's been around way before hip hop came to be, it just didn't have a name. the "hip hop" look is a style derived from black culture. Black culture has always been imitated and assimilated into the american mainstream by mostly white teens-but thats a whole nutha story. the point is that what JANFAN4 got from the documentary was that the black punk rockers did not love themselves-i know quite a few people like that who are black.

I was replying to a particular section of the post. I also know some black people that don't love themselves but not that many.

heybaby said:

namepeace said:

Justifying interracial relationships by downing and generalizing the black community -- one girl said, "I don't date black men because they all wear sloppy, baggy clothes like FUBU and they beat up their women. They can't be trusted." The white men that she clung to were very unattractive (some even felt uncomfortable being film around her) and she seemed lost. Another black guy was so lost he said, "I remember looking at a photo album and I *discovered* the pictures were of white women" -- later pointing out that many of them did him wrong or used him as a sexual object. Yet, he kept coming back to them anyway. The same black girl who downgraded black men then went on to downgrade other black women: "I'm not like other black girls, I dont wear hootchie clothes."

Trying to "fit in."

The unhealthy preoccupation with "whiteness" -- a lot of those documented had issues with their blackness and they dated whites or idolized their white peers in their suburban or rural communities to say "hey, white community, please accept me, I'm not like them hip hop, thuggy blacks." One girl had such an unhealthy fixation with whiteness and capturing white flesh that it made her seem very pathetic. In another scene, one black guy was literally hugged up on his white punk rock friends and was clinging to their every syllable.

The contradictory nature of certain black punk artists -- yet, at the same time many of these folks abhor whites' attitudes in punk rock. The doc showed one artist with dreds singing lyrics about Africa and black pride, but the people moshing in the crowds were 100% white and were oblivious to its pro-black message (they were approached by the filmmaker after his show and each person knew not of the artist's message). Another black female artist wished more blacks came to her shows to hear "some real music," but then at the same token, she wanted to distance herself from other blacks by saying "I'm a punker, I'm special."

Many of those documented in the film were hyper-defensive when it came to hip hop and viewed the people who listen to R&B or hip hop as not being as "artistic" or "cultured" as they were. They viewed both genres as "garbage" and "noise" (...go figure). The general consensus: "everything is crap, except punk." The vibe I got from those documented: any black person that isn't into punk, rock (or the type of music "I" listen to) is ignorant.

A lot of the testimonials of the "afro-punkers" in the film generally came from kids who were isolated, insecure, alienated, consumed with self-hate (as a result of many being raised in predominately white neighborhoods), had a blinkered view of others and had major identity issues -- you could see all these undertones in the film. On the surface it was a film about music, but under its layers many of these folks were obliviously lost, craving attention or desperately trying to fit in.

Many used "punk" as a tool towards communal accpetance (or as an attempt to appear "different") and they disrespected either their own race or others because of their own personal insecurities. I felt like a lot of the "punkers" style and ethos was contrived. It wasn't exactly positive, but I guess that's how it is for a lot of the blacks in the punk rock community.

Sorry, I was editing my post at the same time you were typing yours. I think America's treatment of blacks as second class citizens contributes to a lot of this. Their excuses to not liking sloppy baggy clothes are cop outs because not all blacks dress this way or act like thugs. This problem has been going on long before the "thug" image was glamorized.

I would love to see the documentary, it sounds very interesting.