This sounded really cool:

Afro-Punk: The "Rock N Roll Nigger" experience is a 66-minute documentary exploring racial identity within the punk scene. More than your everyday "Behind the Music" or typical "black history month" documentary, this film tackles the hard questions like issues of loneliness, exile, inter-racial dating and black power within the punk rock scene. Following the lives of four people who have dedicated themselves to the punk rock lifestyle, they find themselves in conflicting situations while living the dual life as a person of color in a mostly white community. Afro-Punk features performances by Bad Brains, Tamar Kali, Cipher, and Ten Grand. It also contains exclusive interviews by members of Fishbone, 24-7 Spyz, The Dead Kennedys, Candiria, Orange 9mm and TV on the Radio to name a few.

http://www.afropunk.com/

I really wanted to see this in the local indie theatre, but it was in and out of there before I had the chance.

Someone posted on this about a year and a half ago. It should be released on DVD.

Or has it been?

I posted this on the org over a year ago --> http://www.prince.org/msg/8/55416

Is this the same documentary I saw a year ago or has the director updated it (and added more footage) by any chance?

I saw "Afro-Punk." It's very interesting to watch. But I was upset by what I saw. It's not the filmmaker's fault, but I had some strong issues with the people in the film.

.
[Edited 12/3/04 14:21pm]

I would love to see this! Sounds like it describes my high school years

There's a NYC screening on December 5th at The Knitting Factory.

sextonseven said:

i've heard about this before and i'd love to see it. i just wish it had a different title. does anyone find it offensive? it just seems like that word has become "normal" for people to use and black people have surrendered to being called that. it makes me uncomfortable when i hear that word.

JANFAN4L said:

Where did you see it? Do you know if its been released on dvd?

found1 said:

I saw it in Ypsilanti, MI at the 555 Art Gallery. The filmmaker was in attendance and he gave a Q&A after the film. Plus, I spoke with him personally. I don't know if it's on DVD now, but he said it was going to be in the future.

JANFAN4L said:

Are you from Michigan? If so, cool! I didn't know.

JANFAN4L said:

Damn, I wasn't on the org last year. The film is still being screened periodically around the U.S. The website says music and images in the film are still in the process of being cleared for retail release.

GangstaFam said:

No. I'm from Los Angeles, but I went to college in Ann Arbor for 4 years (2000-May 2004).

sextonseven said:

Oh, so this might be a totally different film from the one I saw last year. I remember the filmmaker saying in the Q&A session that the movie was still being polished and stuff was being cleared and what not. I vividly remember seeing vintage footage from Bad Brains and new footage from Tamar Kali, Cipher, and Ten Grand in the flick, but I don't remember seeing anything from Dead Kennedys. I'm guessing he recently collected that.

JANFAN4L said:

Oh. bummer.

JANFAN4L said:

What was the problem?

i had a faux-hawk. everybody thought it was cute on me. i had "thugs" asking me how i did my hair that way. i told them "a permandabuscuit"



handulasaiah, gaymen
[Edited 12/3/04 17:41pm]

namepeace said:

Justifying interracial relationships by downing and generalizing the black community -- one girl said, "I don't date black men because they all wear sloppy, baggy clothes like FUBU and they beat up their women. They can't be trusted." The white men that she clung to were very unattractive (some even felt uncomfortable being film around her) and she seemed lost. Another black guy was so lost he said, "I remember looking at a photo album and I *discovered* the pictures were of white women" -- later pointing out that many of them did him wrong or used him as a sexual object. Yet, he kept coming back to them anyway. The same black girl who downgraded black men then went on to downgrade other black women: "I'm not like other black girls, I dont wear hootchie clothes."

Trying to "fit in."

The unhealthy preoccupation with "whiteness" -- a lot of those documented had issues with their blackness and they dated whites or idolized their white peers in their suburban or rural communities to say "hey, white community, please accept me, I'm not like them hip hop, thuggy blacks." One girl had such an unhealthy fixation with whiteness and capturing white flesh that it made her seem very pathetic. In another scene, one black guy was literally hugged up on his white punk rock friends and was clinging to their every syllable.

The contradictory nature of certain black punk artists -- yet, at the same time many of these folks abhor whites' attitudes in punk rock. The doc showed one artist with dreds singing lyrics about Africa and black pride, but the people moshing in the crowds were 100% white and were oblivious to its pro-black message (they were approached by the filmmaker after his show and each person knew not of the artist's message). Another black female artist wished more blacks came to her shows to hear "some real music," but then at the same token, she wanted to distance herself from other blacks by saying "I'm a punker, I'm special."

Many of those documented in the film were hyper-defensive when it came to hip hop and viewed the people who listen to R&B or hip hop as not being as "artistic" or "cultured" as they were. They viewed both genres as "garbage" and "noise" (...go figure). The general consensus: "everything is crap, except punk." The vibe I got from those documented: any black person that isn't into punk, rock (or the type of music "I" listen to) is ignorant.

A lot of the testimonials of the "afro-punkers" in the film generally came from kids who were isolated, insecure, alienated, consumed with self-hate (as a result of many being raised in predominately white neighborhoods), had a blinkered view of others and had major identity issues -- you could see all these undertones in the film. On the surface it was a film about music, but under its layers many of these folks were obliviously lost, craving attention or desperately trying to fit in.

Many used "punk" as a tool towards communal accpetance (or as an attempt to appear "different") and they disrespected either their own race or others because of their own personal insecurities. I felt like a lot of the "punkers" style and ethos was contrived. It wasn't exactly positive, but I guess that's how it is for a lot of the blacks in the punk rock community.

from what you said JANFAN4L, they sound pretty pitiful. i feel sorry for them. it's too bad they don't like themselves.

heybaby said:

I don't feel sorry for them, but it's kind of unsettling to watch in a room full of white people.

JANFAN4L said:

I wonder if that's why the director put "nigger" in the title? "Nigger" is an ignorant person ,regardless of color. But ,in this case,the subjects are Blacks who love rock or punk music and ,somehow,have confused this into a sense of class elevation when all it really shows,in their cases,is that they have a case of not having any class.Those are poor souls who I do feel sorry for in the short term. I do not understand how someone can live that "slave mentality". And how a person could not grow weary of chasing the love of people who only care about you unless it's on their terms isn't understood,either. Implied or not,they look for you to denounce that which is a part of you in favor of what they are. And I know a little something about this because I have been asked ,in the past.Proudly,I have never wanted to be anything other than what I am(somewhat a mutt,but not confused)and have always had a strong sense of being "black". And,because of that, I get along with everyone and am loved by many.

Anyway,Lynch did a brilliant job!!It's sad as hell. I love my people and I will try to set an example,but if you don't want to move,I can't really have anything for you other than sad love. WAKE UP!!!!

JANFAN4L said:

that too.

JANFAN4L said:

I see what you're saying. But these are teens, right? I think you're being way too hard on them.

What you describe, a negative sense of self-worth and self-esteem regarding one's "blackness," is a real problem. But you have to consider how many of these kids grew up among white people. To some extent, they may have internalized a lot of whites' negative stereotypes about black folk, and in an attempt to adapt to their environment, they may have decided they weren't going to be "like the others."

At the same time, EVERY young person's goal is to fit in and find their niche. These kids are no different. You can't expect them to have complete "knowledge of self."

Also, what in the hell is wrong with dressing and looking "punk"? Maybe these kids truly like it. It's what they dig. To deride that as "looking" and "acting" white is to, to some degree, deny a facet of blackness based on conventional black norms. And it pushes these kids further away.

Also, what the kids are saying about the state of black musical and popular culture . . . are they lying if they go by what they see on TV, like their white peers? That's one of the problems as well.

I think these kids are struggling and we should try to understand WHY they are the way they are instead of riding them too hard. Many of them are just kids.

found1 said:

JANFAN4L said:

That's a real shame. I used to be part of an alternative subculture, but it also consisted of other minorites like Latinos and Asians. Maybe that diversity was just because we were based in New York City. Because we were such a melting pot, I never felt pressure to renounce my skin color in order to fit in. Through those years I still listened to black artists I loved (like Prince, Janet & TTD), but also followed the alternative acts that were big in our scene. I still have many friends from that group, but don't really consider myself part of it anymore. Now I'm just unclassifiable me.

namepeace said:

Firstly, excuse me for referring to those documented in the film as "kids." It was an unforeseen discrepancy on my part. I think that may've thrown some of you off in my assessement of the documentary.

Many of them were far from "kids." Try 23, 26, mid-30's and some even in their 40's. If I said kid, it was only in the colloquial sense. They were well above "teen" age and were very set in their ways. As a matter of fact, the filmmaker only interviewed maybe a few people under 21. Documenting minors would've required a consent form, and many weren't filmed as a result. Little were in high school.

And about me being "way too hard on them"? Nah. You've got to watch the documentary for yourself. If anything, I was being as objective as possible given what was displayed in the film.

Negative self-image and issues with "blackness" are, indeed, real problems and these folks definitely have them. That's not to say it's somehow "exclusive" to their experience. There tons of us who listen to hip hop and R&B everyday that don't have "knowledge of self." I wouldn't expect anything less from a punk, a goth, a greaser or any other music appreciator.

You're taking what I said in my initial post somewhere else in your paragraph on countering "conventional black norms." When did I say (or imply) that there was ever something wrong with "dressing and looking 'punk'"? Never. And when did I say that was somehow "'looking' and 'acting' white" if you were? Never. You may be voicing others criticism's of the punk lifestyle, not mine. I'm certainly not that blinkered.

Many of these folks were hardcore punk heads and the overwhelming consensus: "everything is crap, except punk." They said it themselves -- many, many times over in the film. Many had an "I vs. them" mentality and the vibe I got from those documented: any black person (or "person," for that matter) who isn't into punk, rock (or the type of music "I" listen to) is ignorant -- which is simply un-cool, "finding a niche" or insecure childhood be damned.

You can love music, but then there's a point when you're simply passing biased judgment against others without a leg to stand on. Many were so downtrodden because certain segments of society didn't accept them, yet they're quick to pass judgment on others with the same, or even more intense, voracity. In addition, most in the film openly admitted to downing hip hop because their "friends did back in high school" or a peer said *this*, I wanted to fit into *that*.

Many in "Afro-punk" definitely had issues unrelated to music. I'm commenting on their ideologies and subsequent insecurities, not the music in which they listen.

Definitely watch the complete documentary to fully understand what I addressed.

.
[Edited 12/6/04 13:11pm]

JANFAN4L said:

My post was based on the premise we were dealing with children. Adults are a different manner. The description I saw in the post from a year ago indicated the same thing.

My bad.

Tho I do believe that, from a larger perspective, the doc focuses on an issue we all need to think about: defining what "black" is. Maybe I misunderstood your comments in the context of what you were saying about these people being "self-haters," but it is an issue all black folk face to various degrees. Is listening to a certain kind of music, hanging out in certain places, going to certain movies, dating certain people, etc. considered "white"? That's what I was addressing: we are all black and there are many different niches and nuances to the black experience.

But these grown folk are just ignorant. We still need to try to reach out to them, but they're ignorant. I'm more with you on that now.

namepeace said:

I would love for you to watch this documentary. I'm so curious to hear what you have to say after fully viewing.

This film should be studied, analyzed and shown in sociology, African American history and U.S. history classes (or just shown in general). So many discussions and debates can be sparked because of this film.

JANFAN4L said:

that is absolutely sad that they said that shit. you'd think that they'd be a bit more open-minded due to both their age and the genre they've embraced, but no. it almost makes me feel damn near ashamed to be a punk-funker.

i've yet to see the film--i missed it when it played in minneapolis, so hopefully it'll come out on dvd soon.

JANFAN4L said:

I can't wait to see it . . .

I hope I didn't spoil this film for anyone.

I'd like for all of you to come to your own conclusions after viewing. Keep in mind, that was only mine.