I will be flogged, but I must say that MJ is funky as all hell...listen to "Butterflies." "Whatever Happens." "Break of Dawn." (Don't listen to "The Lost Children." Please, don't)

Why, really why does everyone on the .Org always rip on Mike? Just because he looks like he is made of Tupperware? The man can still sing & dance like nobody!!!

KingSausage said:

Mike is BAD, but all of the years where he was placed on the throne as the King of Pop has made some pissed. Prince Roger Nelson suffered at the grammys in 85 because of the backlash of the Thriller album.

I think MJ's work since Bad is pretty much booty, but I was wondering if y'all had heard some song with the lyrics "Baby Be Mine." I don't recall this song being from one of his old albums, is it an outtake from Invincible? It's hella nice.

Butterflies however is crap and should be played back-to-back with [insert favorite Kirky J song here].

"Baby Be Mine" is the second song on "Thriller."

KingSausage needs to get off Mikey's dick.

KingSausage said:

Oops. I guess it's really been a long time since I listened to that album! (Must have been about 10 years old.) Someone posted it on AudioGalaxy as "You Rock My World," and I couldn't figure out where it was from. (Only MJ album I have is Off The Wall!)

Ripping on MJ is not my favorite thing to do, mostly because it's like teasing someone with a physical or mental disability - he happens to have both.

MJ was a child star who blew several gaskets. He was a "great" entertainer until he started the self-mutilation stuff, somewhere around 1980. That's over 20 years ago. He is so over, it's not even worth discussing him!

We rip on MJ because his talent is completely separate from Prince, and I don't feel that my enthusiasm for Prince carries over in any way shape or form to MJ. Sure, MJ can dance, barely sing, and yet I'm not aware that he can play a musical instrument. After 30 years in the biz, he must play something! What does he do with all of his free time (apart from plastic surgery)?

He does a few things better than Prince. His self-promotion as "The King of Pop" is a shameless display of vanity that Prince could learn a lot from. On the other hand, being a "pop" anything is a dubious distinction.

I rip on Mike b/c he rips on his face - tit for tat, Encased Meat King...

loved him up to Bad, still dug Dangerous but knew shit was getting thin. To be honest, I have a hard time separating his bullshit from his music - don't EVEN start a "what's wrong w/ Prince" discussion!!!

TheMax said:

Very true. I'm personally ambivilent to Mike when it comes to most of his music of the last 20 years. Almost like I feel about a lot of Prince's music of the past decade. But some of Mike's actions with regard to his physical appearance and his actions in other areas of his life speaks serious volumes about his mentality and, for many people, supersede or overshadow him, not as an artist, but as a person. And that's a can of worms I won't fully open. I like the Michael Jackson of Off The Wall, and the Michael Jackson of The Jackson 5/The Jacksons better. Not only musically, but personally. On the other hand the constant comparison of Prince and Michael is of very little merit musically...think of it almost as comparing Frank Zappa and Lenny Kravitz. Had Prince not existed I'd feel the same way about Mike. I miss the MJ of yesterday.

I rip into MJ--well, when I do--because I just don't sense or see any real artistic growth in his output...to me, Thriller was a great follow-up to Off The Wall, not because it was a better album(song for song, it wasn't), but because I could sense a direction he was growing in...it was exciting to follow him and get a sense of what will he do next...

But all that shit almost came to a grinding halt with "Bad"...decent-to-very good pop, but little more...and with Dangerous, it was like remixes of old songs with the newest hot producer...and every album since has basically followed that same path. Being a Prince fan made those types of move seem weak...(it's also the reason Prince's own material in the late 90's didn't interest me as much...)

Now add to that him calling HIMSELF the "King Of Pop"--talk about delisional arrogance--as well as all the stories in which his management team INSISTED that MTV VJ's and interviewers refer to him as the King Of Pop or else he wouldn't give them his videos or wouldn't agree to sit down for an interview...

Then throw on the child sexual molestation charges--I know nothing was proven, but damn, with a guy like MJ, with never having had a girlfriend to speak of and having a "Neverland Ranch" to live on and being almost overly fond of kids...well, those types of charges seriously do have a ring of truth to them...

Then sprinkle on the almost satirical way he presents himself in videos and on albums--the military garb, the "screaming his head off" poses, the wind gusts blowing his shirts off his skinny-assed body, the overabundant "Whoo's!" and "Hee hee's!" and "Shamon's!"...

Put all that into a pot, and well...you get a perfect recipe for ridicule...The fact that he can crank out a few cool songs on each of his albums doesn't do much to help you overlook the rest...
[This message was edited Mon Feb 18 23:27:45 PST 2002 by wellbeyond]

Michael Jackson is weird and he has ALOT of "issues".I too am a little tired of this "King of Pop" posturing,and his obsession with record sales.But there is NO denying his genuis and obvious talent.Yes,it's easy to criticize him now,but he has had an incredible career.'Thriller''s total worldwide sales are close to 50 million copies.Whenever you see a new video by Usher,Ginuwine,and many others,you are basically seeing the influence that MJ has on today's generation of recording artists.Those guys are doing the same moves that Michael did years ago!

But forget all that.Focus on the music.Michael has made some of the best songs of all time.From his days in the Jackson 5 to his solo albums (most notably,'Off The Wall'),Michael has consistently made great music.I actually like 'Invincible' better than 'Dangerous' and 'History'.I don't worry about Michael's place in history.Like Prince,he has already left his mark,no matter how weird he becomes in the future....lol...

In my opionion,both Prince and Michael have allowed "distractions" to stand in the way of their true talent.Most people think they're both too weird and out-of-touch with reality.But,in the end,you have to forget all that nonsense and focus on the MUSIC.In Quincy Jones' biography,he makes a very good point.He mentions Michael's weirdness,and insists that "You can't be that talented without having SOME eccentrities".I'm parapharasing here,but you get the idea.

But back to the music.I think that people are just now starting to realize what a great album 'Invincible' really is.The song "Butterflies" is fast becoming one of MJ's most liked songs (it's Number Two on the R&B charts,just from radio airplay alone!).I honestly can't imagine ANY longtime MJ fan not liking the new CD.He revisits his past without recycling it.Songs like "Whatever Happens","Heaven Can Wait" and "Unbreakable" sound fresh and inspired.It is telling that many people on this site who criticize him STILL have a copy of this CD in their collection....lol..

"The fact that he can crank out a few cool songs on each of his albums doesn't do much to help you overlook the rest..."

DAMN, WB - you ARE always right!!!

"A few cool songs on each album"? Don't force me to make a list...lol...y'all know about my long lists:)

Mulefunk- I'm curious as to how you feel Prince during 85' Grammies suffered because of the MJ backlash???? Not trying to start up anything? I'm just curious on an elaboration of this statement.

CR3 aka Brother 9/15

My take on MJ is everything after "Thriller" was done with a very "commercial mindset".


MJ went into the studio with a vengenace to record Thriller because he felt like he had something to prove. But it wasn't due to lack of sales of "Off The Wall". Because Off The Wall was the biggest selling record of all time by an African-American. This was a major feat back in 79-80. However, Off The Wall didn't get an album of the year nomination at the 1980 Grammies. This bothered Mike. He felt he was ignored by his peers. He said in his 1988 autobiography(personally I felt this was too early for Mike to be doing an autobiography)...." My next album will be an album that they(grammy voting commitee) won't be able to ignore". MJ and Quincy never had an idea that Thriller was going to have the impact that it did. They surely didn't see the sales coming. They didn't know that Thriller would take the whole recording industry out of a sales slump. Back in 1983,when someone walked in the store to buy Thriller they usually bought something else as well.


IMO, Off The Wall is MJ's best album. For one thing for an album that was a "disco" record, Off The Wall still holds up and is still relevant..EVEN TODAY!!!! They are certainly disco ingredients on this record. However, the funk is there(thanks to Louis "Thunder Thumbs" Johnson), the album had a couple of cuts with a nice jazzy backdrop (ex: the super beautiful song "I Can't Help It" . Of course,SOUL music was present. A lot of albums(especially in the disco arena) from the seemingly dim era have not worn well through out the years. Some of the music sounds terribly dated, yet Off The Wall still sounds great. And dare I say this....IT IS A MONUMENTAL RECORD!!!! Critics, no matter how hard they rip MJ now-a-days, acknowledge Off The Wall as a classic. Also, it is very commonplace to see Off The Wall listed among greatest albums of all time among those types of lists.

Thriller was surely a bold artistic step. The whole world was waiting on what MJ do next. He came up with a nice R&B/rock fusion with "Beat It". What would he pursue on the next record????? There was serious pressure on MJ...and what did he do???He came back and made a SAFE record as the followup to BAD????? This is one area where I respect LIL MAN because he didn't wait to see what Purple Rain would do commercially before he became working on "Around The World In A Day"(this is not to say I disrespect MJ because I don't ...the man's a master showman). After Thriller, MJ albums have flashes of briilance, but the overall vibe of his albums since then have been oversaturated with commercialism. He's trying to make music to please everyone from 8 to 80. This is not 1983 but 2002. MJ will probably never reach the sales levels of Thriller again. This type of success is surely a once in a lifetime thing.

It's also worth noting that Thriller came along when MTV and the whole video revolution was exploding. Allow me to be so BOLD as to say that if it wasn't for the videos of Billie Jean, Beat It and Thriller, "Thriller" wouldn't sold what it sold...(can you believe there were people in 83' saying after the Billie Jean video premiere that "Gee...I didn't Michael Jackson could DANCE like THAT!!!!" even though MJ had been in the industry since 1969). So those videos generated a lot of excitment. Now you had people who knew MJ, the vocalist had a dancing talent from the heavens. People went out and bought Thriller in droves. Don't believe me... look at the Billboard album charts in late 82 and 1983. Thriller shot back up to number one and stayed there for weeks after the video of Billie Jean.

I'm not knocking Mike, but I said on this website once before that MJ needs to forget abour sales and just go in the studio and make a raw record (a cutting edge R&B/funk record). Also, don't forget about the ballads. As people are NOW RENOTICING on his latest release, one of MJ's secret weapons in arsenal is his ability to make great slow R&B slow ballads ala' The Lady In My Life, I Can'T Help It and Push Me Away (from the The Jacksons 1978 album Destiny).The fact that the man has away with ballads have been overshadowed by MJ the GREAT DANCE ARTIST or MJ.... THE KING OF POP.

Despite all this, people still have to give him his props, because the man is an American icon. PERIOD!!!!! Despite the weirdness and eccentricities, the man continues to endure!!!!!

Peace,
Brother 9/15 aka CR3

HUH.....are ya'll a little passionate about this subject...lol

I like Butterflies and I don't have a problem with his music. I have more problems with he's image.
Prince and MJ are two very different artist. Keep in context!

Hell, I will even admit to screamin' like a damn 6 six year old when I watched Mike and his brothers on his special.

When is Prince gonna git a damn special?

I really wish Michael would work with Quincy Jones again! QJ knew how to bring out Michael's best. Unfortuntely, MJ has chosen to work with numerous producers on his last couple of albums, leading to rather uneven discs. "Invincible" has some great moments, but it really fails to live up to "Off The Wall", "Thriller" or even "Bad".

C'mon now King Sausage, I know you really want to discuss AOTC!

"It is telling that many people on this site who criticize him STILL have a copy of this CD in their collection."

No it isn't..lol...hell, I have a copy of Kajagoogoo in my record collection, too, but that doesn't mean that they didn't suck huge ones artistically...lol...

Props and respect to Michael, he's one of the most talented and intrigueing artists of the last century. As a musician he's WAY under-rated. Prince fans like to give all the credit to MJ's co-producers, but anyone who has heard the Billie Jean demo MJ recorded (availible on the re-release of Bad) will know it was Michael who came up with those killer riffs, and it was Michael who mastered that amazing bassline! Judging by that demo (which MJ recorded before QJ had even heard it) QJ's input to the album was minimal at best. MJ's been producing, writing, arranging and performing for just as long as Prince, and as much as I love Prince, MJ is more significant in music history. I have the uppermost respect for his art and am a lifelong fan.
His new disc is superb. Speechless shows just how much he's matured and is truly touching. Unbreakable has the kind of bassline most would die for and the icing on the cake is Biggie's rap... sheer heaven! Heaven Can Wait is smooth as his sisters behind. Damn, the whole CD is bangin! His vocals have never sounded better, the production never tighter and each track is a winner!
Invincible is where I turned to straight after I heard the disappointment that was: The Rainbow Children.
[This message was edited Tue Feb 19 15:48:12 PST 2002 by MattyJam]

he should be in jail for "sucking off" that under age 13 year old boy..

MJ is SOOOOO lucky OJ Simpson killed his wife.. because it took the "spotlight" off him

*I have never seen such a WHORE for Public Relations then this moron ...Does he just put anything in the press to get more publicity??

* Online SNL petitions ( to get rid of a skit)

* People magazine articles about CGI work being done to add weight to that Crack Head Whitney Houston...in the CBS concert..(god this is sick.. yes we all know she has problems with drugs.. BUT release it to a "real magazine".. just so you can have yet another day of people talking about YOU.. who cares if she probably will be dead within a year)

* CGI work done to your skin because you have a disease..so you have to be be painted in "darker"

always trying to to paint himself as a victim.

notice it is never about the music.

what a WHORE

Did anyone notice MJ's "new" thing he did to his face:
*He put a Plastic or Rubber Strip under the skin ABOVE his upper lip.. so if you notice in the CBS Concert.. YOU NEVER SEE HIS FRONT TEETH?? He can't smile anymore..He tried to cover it with his hand when he was Lip Sync/Singing.. You really see this when at the end of the Show when he hugs Chris Tucker & Usher.. he smiles and his upper lip doesn't move or go up?

NO JOKE... I really think he is trying to LOOK like one of the people from WHO-VILLE... from the Jim Carey movie The Grinch..


This site doesn't LIE...

http://www.doneanddusted....ovie2.html


DON'T even get me started on his " music career".. that will have to wait until next time
[This message was edited Tue Feb 19 19:17:51 PST 2002 by locoarts]

Off The Wall was his most effortlessly fun and soulful moment.

Dangerous is up there for second best album though IMO, it's heavily slept on. Only song I don't like on this LP is "Gone Too Soon" where he gets all sappy as he has a tendency to do in recent times.

According to the news at Planet Jackson.com....

The song "Heaven Can Wait" will be the next single from the 'Invincible' CD.It will be sent to radio in March,and a video is planned.

THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!! I absolutely love this song!! It sounds dreamy and hypnotic,and I predict it will be an even bigger hit than "Butterflies".

The chorus to this song is the best chorus of ANY song I've heard recently.My girlfriend is SICK of me singing it to her everyday:)

Am I the only one that keeps "Cry" on repeat

michael you are to much you go girl!

4everYoung said:

I love that song "Cry"! It's especially fitting in these troubled times.

I just saw the whole tape of that ole Motown special. And Jackson was crazy energetic and smiling and shining. And oh my god, the Marvin Gaye performance of "What's goin on" will make you serious.

starboy126 said:

I remember watching that special back in 1983.The next day in school,EVERYBODY was raving about Michael's awesome performance of "Billie Jean".That was a turning point for him,because after that show aired,'Thriller' began selling like 1 million copies A WEEK.

I think the thing that made Mike blow up so large concerning the Motown 25 special is that before it aired, people were excited that MJ was making an appearance, but everyone was expecting him to just sing Motown songs with his brothers. But still you tuned in, because he's MJ and you want to see what is he going to do....

When he performed Billie Jean, the performance blew the roof off, beacuse it was such an unexpected surprise. And yes... everybody at my high school the next day was talking about it.

BTW, speaking of albums and records selling large amount of copies in such period of time...Ray Parker Jr, once sold a million copies in one week with "Ghostbuster" in 1984.

"baby if you had a dose of that FREAKY ghost....you better call..GHOSTBUSTER...OWWWWW"

Brother915 said:

The ironic thing is,Ray Parker Jr. has done a lot of great songs,but THAT one has to be his greatest hit.It's a cool song and all,but it's also very "gimmicky" and silly.It must be frustrating for him to be known primarily for that song.

Yes a lot of people only remember Ray Parker Jr.for that song . However, Ray was on of my favorite 80's artists. People forget about his 70's funk group Raydio, some of my favorite Ray songs are.....



*Jack And Jill



*Get Down-From the debut 1977 album Raydio!!!!



*You Can't Change That


*Hot Stuff


*Rock On


*Two Places At The Same Time


*For Those Of Who Like To Groove- OKAY, FOR all of you Old Schoolers who are Ray Parker Jr haters...Tell me you didn't jam off of this song back in the 70's!!!!


*A Woman Needs Love- Ray gives good advice to all the men out there not fulfillinf their women.


*That Old Song


*The Other Woman- This song went to number #4 on Billboard pop chart in 1982. This is my favorite solo Ray Parker Jr record. FAMOUS LINE ON THIS SONG....My friends laugh but that's alright, I may be a fool but I know what I like"



*Let Me Go- One of Ray's best love ballad. This song had on of the best lines in music history. "Girl your stuff is so GOOD, I want my NAME ON IT!!!!!


*It's Our Own Affair


*Bad Boy


*I Still Can't Get Over Loving You

*In The Heat Of The Night- Personally I think this is surely one of Ray's best slow jam. This song is good to just lay back with your lady. Again, Ray plays the cautionary brother. This time he warns the lady to ..."never believe a man in the heat of the night"..."Baby why must you get BURN to LEARN"(LOL)

*Christmas Time Is Here- Nice X-MAS song from Ray.

*Jamie

*I Dont Think A Man Should Sleep Alone- Nice mid-tempo jam from Ray. Another great line....."This world that we live in have too many laws and too many rules....The thought of you and me sleeping here..seems like everybody disapprove"
(LOL).

*After Midnite- Nice instrumental slow jam from Ray. This song was tailor made for quiet storm programming on R&B radio. And it was commonplace to hear the song on R&B radio
around midnite and shortly thereafter.


Ray made a lot of great jams. He is one of those artists that people have forgotten about though.


Brother 9/15 aka CR3