Marrk said:

hey, i sat down and watched the Rhythm Nation video over and over and perfected the moves. that doesn't mean i'm a good dancer or a natural. certainly, step for step mimicry is impressive, especially for a child. but it's hardly the hallmark of a great dancer. it's the hallmark of a great photocopier.

GrayKing said:

And Marrk, you honestly believe MJ just got up one day and decided to dance "like James Brown", and he just did it? That it involved no practice or effort or training, because he was just so BRIMMING with talent? Puh-leeze.
[Edited 11/27/04 18:54pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Janet, Paula, MJ, Madonna or Mrs Ritchie whatever it was heading that way. i'm not really that bothered myself, this thread is well and truly gone. All very silly. I realise i've contributed to the silliness myself but what the hey! nicotine withdrawals y'see!

the world still turns! no harm no foul.

VoicesCarry said:

a 10 year old Baby Jesus Christ himself couldn't have even done better. don'tcha know?

GrayKing said:

He kept tripping on those long robes.

GrayKing said:

grow up.

Marrk said:

[Edited 11/27/04 19:01pm]

VoicesCarry said:

like i said, no nicotine, i'm easily aggravated right now.

Marrk said:

i don't grow up, i throw up, and you come around the corner and lick it up

Marrk said:

Marrk said:

that reminds me.... it's been a whole 45 minutes since i got oral pleasure from my buddy the Marlboro Man. can't wait to quench that lust. mmmm. bbl

GrayKing said:

you're horrible, and at the same time faintly amusing. I've decided to like you! It makes life easier, i find

My fav dancers:-

1) MC Hammer
2) Paula Abdul
3) Michael Jackson (without all the samey kicks and shit!)
4) Missy eliot
5) Janet Jackson
6) Troop.....(r'n'b boy band of late 80's)
7) Usher

So there u go.....Hammer beats all 4 sheer energy alone! U seen one of his shows? I remember Andre 3000 saying how he still liked and respected Hammer 4 being his own man etc..... and Missy said she learnt from a showman point of view as Missy dances too.....

Paula for sheer skill and variety though, Hammer for energy and quickness, Michael for grace and flow, Missy for making original and rather unusual moves, Janet for moves plain and simple. Troop 4 making the running man choreographed and skillful! Usher 4 the attitude.....

Usher admits to loving troops "spread my wings" video for the awesome dancing.....u should check that video.....u may remember it, set on a rooftop at night

thesexofit said:

You're kidding about Missy, right? She's an awful performer. Anyone who's ever seen her live will attest to that.

My Two Cents!

Does anyone remember The Tracy Ullman Show? Paula was the show's choreographer, and the dance numbers impressed my dad, an ex-hoofer. Paula didn't just do hip/hoppy, pop, club type numbers; she threw together tap, jazz, broadway type stuff - and those dance numbers were really, really good. Sure, Janet dances well in her videos, Pleasure Principle for example, but isn't that just JJ doing her best "Paula impression"? I mean, yes, it takes talent to watch a choreographer show you their stuff and then mimic it with pinache and rhythm, but Paula did choreograph several of JJ's vids in the 80's, and imho, Paula outdanced JJ in her own vids (my fave being Coldhearted). My nod goes to Paula as the better dancer.

And as far as Brit goes, so what if she has acne and funky nipples? This thread is about dancing, and the girl can dance. Is she Janet or Paula? Maybe not, but she could jig circles around Mariah or Jessica.

(And for the record, though Brit is unkempt in those photos, she still has quadricep definition and no visible cellulite so I'd hardly call her fat. I think she looks hot in the pic where she's in blue jeans facing away from the camera and her titty's showing).
[Edited 11/28/04 7:24am]

Paula, Jennifer Lopez, Madonna, and Britney have years of formal dance training, so I would consider all of them professional dancers.

Janet,on the other hand, hasn't had much formal training, so even though she has natural talent, she really couldn't compete with the others on techincal level. However, I'm not saying that one of these performers is necessarily a better dancer than the other though. It's just hard to compare and a bit unfair because even though Janet lacks "training," she is probably the one of the best "dance" musical artists of all time.

Here's an interview Janet did with Answers4Dancers:

JANET JACKSON CLOSE UP
THE TRUTH ABOUT HER DANCE CONNECTION

By Suzy Miller

When Janet Jackson says she'll call you at 9 am, you can expect your phone to ring at 9 am. On the nose. Don't be busy scarfing down your chocolate chip pancake, that's my advice. And I speak from experience! The voice on the other end of the line is a gentle, calm, and extremely intelligent one. Her answers are spontaneous yet thoughtful, clearly heartfelt, yet organically well-crafted. She makes you feel you're really in conversation with her; she truly listens and responds. She is quintessentially easy to speak to. Don't find yourself telling her all about your own personal life, that's my advice. And I speak from - well, you get the idea.

One more thing - her office - her people? Unassuming, kind, professional yet personable. Courteous. Thoughtful even. I got the call Sunday late afternoon from Jaime (NAME); they knew it was short notice, but would I possibly be available Monday morning for the interview? As if I might say "Gosh, please tell Janet sorry, I'll be busy making pancakes then." At the end of our conversation, he actually thanked me for answering the phone on a Sunday night. My own Mom doesn't even do that! There's an old saying; "the bigger the star, the nicer they are". I don't know if it's always true, but in Janet's case, you could not speak with a sweeter soul.


SM: How's New York?

JJ: I'm not in New York, I'm in Atlanta.

SM: How do you keep track?

JJ: (Laughs.) The other day I actually forgot what day it was!

SM: Oh man, you're freefloating. It's an amazing life you're living though.

JJ: Thank you. I've very blessed.

SM: I'm so excited to speak with you - I've heard so many beautiful things about you from Gil...

JJ: Really? (There is a smile in her voice.)

SM: Oh yeah. It makes me love your music even more if that's possible. He just really sees your spirit. If you ever need a boost, you should read what he says about you, you'll love it.

JJ: Mmm. Thank you so much.

SM: I know that your schedules tight so I'll just get right to it. Tell me about your take on Gil as a person.


JJ: I've never met anyone like him. He's so wise beyond his years. At the same time, he still has the kid in him which I love; he's such a prankster. He has this heart that's so loving and giving - and forgiving - and very spiritual, that's one of the qualities I so love about him. And one of the ones he talked about in you as well. He did? She laughs with a sort of affectionate delight. "It's like he's lived this life before. An old soul. I love talking to him -sometimes when I feel bummed out, I'll call him up. And you know, that's what friends are for - just to know you have someone you can to turn to, to give you advice with another take on life. This perspective that he comes from is so true and so strong, it's so right on. He's a special man. What about your take on him as a dancer? Incredible. I've never seen anyone's body move the way his does. The first time I ever saw him dance, I thought, "this kid has something so different. He gives you technique if you need it, he can give you hiphop and then his own flavor - raised Hawaiian and everything else he was raised with, what he learned as a kid in Hawaii and all of that put together is just so different.

Yes, like a fusion.

Very much so, a fusion. She laughs. When you said that it made me thing of the drink called a fusion. It's so good, it's like a jolly rancher candy put into a martini - well, that's Gil! Sweet, perfect, just the right blend of everything, not too much of one, not too little of another. We call him "Boy Wonder" - he's crazy, he's amazing. He really is.

SM: I agree. I set out to interview him and ended up asking him to be my guru! What about him as a choreographer/co-creator?

JJ: He's so talented. Anything he touches - and I told him this many times before, even before he decided to go into this new path of his career that he's walking -anything he touches will turn to gold. Anything he decides to do, because he's good at everything. There are people in the world who are like that, 'today I want to do this, tomorrow I want to do that' and they're so good at it all, I think sometimes maybe they even get bored, 'okay I accomplished that now let me do this'. He's so good at everything he does; his poetry, so beautiful so profound. Him as a choreographer? There's nothing like it, the blend we talked about, the fusion, such a fresh and new look. And very intricate, and very sensual, which I love. It's not always easy to do, it has so much feeling and emotion in it - it's all about feel and it's not easy to pick up his feel.

SM: It's very soulful.

JJ: Very soulful. That's where he dances from, his soul.


SM: For the record, as far as doing anything he tries so well; he said the same thing about you. She gives the same surprised verbal smile.

JJ: You're kidding!

SM: What about as a co-creator?

JJ: Out of all the shows I've done, and I might be speaking too soon, but I really think this about the biggest backseat I've ever taken. Knowing Gil is in the driver's seat- I've never felt comfortable letting someone steer the ship before. Even if he doesn't have the entire handle on all of it, which I really do believe I will let him do that, he'll still have the majority of it. Not to say that I won't add my two or three cents, but it will be his baby, not min. You understand what I'm saying? And yes, it will be something that obviously I'll agree to, and we'll talk about things, but it will really be his baby. And I've never ever let someone do that. I feel that comfortable and that confident in Gil and his wk. In his talent. And I've never felt that way before.

SM: When did you realize that?

JJ: Way before he and I started talking about it I went to him with it, I'd been thinking about it for awhile but didn't know quite how I should approach it. And then also waiting to the project, recording the album etc - I could see he wanted something, and it seemed that he was going in this direction, but I wasn't sure how much he really wanted it. With time I began to see he was really serious about it and it was something he really wanted to do. And that's when I said, "Okay, time for us to talk" Because he's just that talented.

SM: Can you remember your very first impressions of him?

JJ: He had blonde blonde short hair.

SM: No he didn't!

JJ: Yeah! And this beautiful dark skin with those beautiful eyes and that little body - I remember seeing him in the room and saying to Tina (Landon), 'Who is this?' A beautiful face, that's what caught my eye. And she said 'That's the kid I was telling you about. Gil from Hawaii. Wait till you see him dance." I kept my eye on him and right then and there - most of the time I will not say 'Okay, I want that person with me', but I did with Gil. After I saw him dance, I turned to Tina and said put his picture aside. (She laughs lightly. And the following night we went to a club, and there he was standing by himself, and she goes 'Jan, there's Gil, and I decided to tell him, or Tina did, that he was a part of us.


SM: When did you start seeing him as a choreographer rather than a dancer?

JJ: Watching him move, I knew he had something else. I've done that with other dancers; Barry Lather, when we were shooting "Nasty", he used to fool around and dance in rehearsal. I keep my eyes open and watch. I get this feeling, this sense. He had something else in him. I asked Barry to choreograph the breakdown in 'When I Think of You', that was the first time we worked together. And from there I asked him to choreograph "Pleasure Principal". That's basically the way I do it, I just observe, just watch. I hang out with them and just sit back. So I did the same thing with Gil, watching his freestyle and the way he moved, I could see he had something else in him. The first time he actually choreographed something for me was the last tour - I really wanted him to do something on the Velvet Rope tour. I remember Tina had so much on her plate - she was having what we call writer's block, I'll call it dancer's block, with one of the songs, I think it was "Together Again." I said, "why don't you ask Gil to help you, he has something inside of him and I think he could possibly help you get past this point. She wound up working it out herself, but I so wanted her to go to Gil. Even with the tour itself, because there was a good deal on her plate, but she worked it out herself with a little bit of help from Robert and Teresa Espinosa.


SM: You've worked with some wonderful choreographers, and discovered more than a few of them - is there something specific you look for in a choreographer?

JJ: You know what Suzy, it's not that I sit there and look for a certain something in them. It's more on that level.

SM: Intuitive.

JJ: Yes, there's an energy and I can see that. It is intuitive.

SM: Dance has always been such an important element in all your work, and such a beautiful element. I'm sure you know this, but you're one of the artists dancers everywhere feel you are the ultimate to work for.

JJ: You know what, I didn't know that.

SM: Really??

JJ: I swear to you. I'll tell you when I started to realize that is with this project, talking with Gil and Peanut. I have a great deal of respect for dancers; I always have and I always will. A lot of artists are more "I do my job, you do your job" and don't get involved - but I like for it to be a family. I like to get to know them. And you know, in your family, sometimes there's drama, sometimes things go smoothly. And that's the way you get closer, you know? And that makes for a close-knit family where it's a team, when we're up there on stage we're a team, it's not just about me, it's about all of us. That's the way I see it. I think that's why we look the way we do onstage, because we are so close offstage. If they have an issue or are feeling down and bummed out, I don't put a wall there so they can't come to me. I want to know, I want to be able to help. That's what friends are for, that's what family is for. That's just the way I've always done it. I love that feeling, coming from a big family especially.


SM: The dancers I interviewed said just beautiful things about you.

JJ: That's so sweet. And see, I get excited and driven by them. When I see a dancer in a club or in a performance, oh, it gives me goosebumps, I get chills. I'm like "Let's go, let's get to work"; I get so excited when I see a beautiful dancer expressing themselves.

SM: How much dance training have you had?

JJ: I haven't had any training.

SM: Oh my God, you're kidding!

JJ: No, it's always been from watching. Watching MGM musicals when I was a kid - I didn't get in the mirror because there was carpet; we'd dance on the carpet so -

SM: At home you mean?

JJ: Yeah, at home, my brother Mike and me, when we were little, my parents had a huge sliding glass door, so we'd slide the glass door and look at our reflection. It was right outside off the swimming pool. We'd learn all the steps to all the musicals - I was Ginger Rodgers, he was Fred Astaire. My favorite was Cyd Charisse. That's who I wanted to be. But I didn't know how to hold my leg up, didn't know nothing! But we learned the steps. That's really when I started dancing. And then when I got into street dancing - I was always working. I went to a public school in junior high for one year and a lot of kids were bussed to my school. I think I was working on "Good Times" at the time. During lunchtime I noticed all the kids that were bussed would go to the field playing music, like playing Parliament. The music I knew, but this whole other side of dance, this whole street thing, and this feeling they put in with their bodies, I was like "okay, what is this?" I wanted to know what that was and get to know it. But no, I've never had any training; I always wish that I had.

SM: Does it come easy or hard for you?

JJ: It's never been difficult for me. Trying to pick up on a person's style, that can be difficult, but at the same time infuse our own thing once you understand it and are inside of it. I don't count - Gil will try to show me something and if I don't understand it, I'll sit back and ask him do it with the music. I know the music and I love rhythms - I always wanted to be a drummer but my mother didn't think it was a feminine enough instrument. So I was like okay forget it, but I love rhythm. So I listen to what he's moving to, and I hear it and then I get it. You hear Gil go "uh uh uhuhuh", and that's the way I've always done it.

SM: Gil and I spoke a great deal about spirituality and that it was one of your connections. Would you care to talk about how does your spirituality connect with your work?

JJ: I think at a certain level you can't help connect that with your work - it's just a part of your life. In my music and lyrics, it's always shown itself. You're always seeking to make yourself a better person. I think that search comes out in your writing and your work. There's that want that need so badly for it that desire to find it.

SM: You do most of your own writing, true?

JJ: Yes.

SM: Does that come easily for you?

JJ: There are times, it all depends on moods, emotions, for myself at least. This isn't a funny thing to say, but it's true - I'm used a lot of drama in my life! It's much easier to write when there's drama. I hate to say that, but I can go to town when there's drama because there's so much to write upon. When things are smooth are sailing I'm like 'Okay wait, what's going on here? This is foreign to me, the drama's gonna hit soon, I'm not used to this." Definitely easier for me to right when things are going on in my life - but how good does it feel when everything is going so smoothly! Sometimes I feel like "Oh God, is this too boring?" because everything is so smooth, but it feels so good...

SM: Well you make beautiful love songs at those times.

JJ: Thank you, but sometimes I feel I need the drama to make it sound good. (She laughs.)

SM: The terrible muse.

JJ: Right?

SM: Well it's wonderful you have a vehicle for it.

JJ: That's right... You know what Suzy, I think I have to go -

SM: You have been so generous with your time, I thank you so much. It was a joy talking with you.

JJ: You too!
[Edited 11/28/04 8:17am]

By the way, has Janet ever spoken about PPaula and vice versa.....was Janet really pissed that "forever your girl" was bigger then "control"! I bet she thought tha"t forever your girl" would flop badly (which it did at first!)...I heard janet thought "control" would top "thriller" in sales.....a bit too hopeful there janet, but nevermind....

...whilst we ain't discussing who's songs r better, "straight up" was by far one of the best songs of the 80's period and infact "spellbound" album is not as bad as u think.....I swear Britney rips Paula's vocals and adlibs from the track "spellbound"..ever notice that?

Mind u "spellbound" may sound badly dated production wise, but as any Family stand (they basically wrote/produced most of "spellbound" album) fan could tell u, u can so tell that these r pure family stand songs but just given tons of extra contemporary early 90's pop sound to make it commercial.....

"promise of a new day" is pure Stand I reckon! Any family Stand fans here?

thesexofit said:

I heard Janet owns a floating house and lives with a purple leprechaun.

P.S. I think Forever Your Girl and Spellbound are two really great pop albums, especially Spellbound, which I think is underrated. She's no vocalist, but what the hell, they're well-crafted songs and you don't need a fantastic voice to sing them. Anyone could - that's the appeal. I even liked "My Love Is For Real" and "Crazy Cool" off her third LP.

Who even cares?

Obviously some people do.....

I liked "crazy cool" and "my love is for real" too.....though the album was a huge letdwon....."never gonna give u up" is one of my fav songs of hers.....came out at the wrong time (1994).....seriously, that year there was no pop in USA....just boring midtempo rnb/hiphop shit like d'angelo etc.....

Marrk said:

Isel said:

Jamie and Madonna started working together on the Human Nature Video

thesexofit said:

if you believe that guy that does the MJ bio's.... what's his name... J. Randy Taraborsomethingorother.... when Paula and Janet were good friends during the Control era, Paula and a married Jackie had an affair and Paula got pregnant and had an abortion. and that was pretty much the end of the Janet-Paula friendship.

minneapolisgenius said:

Co-

[/quote][/quote]

Holy shit, I had no idea that Paula was with Jackie Jackson? That abortion is big news.....I know Jermaine and randy had affairs etc.....proberly titi and Marlon too! Thanx 4 the info.....
[Edited 11/29/04 7:05am]

thesexofit said:

It's true! Jackie and Paula Abdul had a thing goin' on in the mid 80s

Paula Abdul

But I still love ya Janet!