I know most old schoolers prefer the Quincy stuff, but alot of us (me included) prefer his later stuff.....


who out of the above 3 gets the best out of MJ?

I reckon Teddy did, Michael has enough skills to work with any producer but Teddy understood Michael best I reckon! Michaels pent up girl as predator songs r perfect 4 Teddy's hard beats!

Jam/Lewis, as much as I love thier HUGE body of work ("re-write the memories" anyone?), did not do Michael as much jistice as Teddy or Rodney did! Maybe it was not their fault but the Jam/lewis cuts seemed not to of had much input from MJ as others did.....

Rodney did a great job in giving Mike a new fresh sound, with "heartbreaker" being a standout.....Rodney's work sounds different with MJ then with other artists he works 4, shows how good both r at creating with each other I reckon!

Anyway, ur thoughts and any inside info with the producers who worked with MJ?

MJ

What, u mean Mike works best by himself? Good point (if that is the point) but 4 some reason, Mike fells he often needs help in studio, but as "speechless" showed us off "Invincible", he has still got it!

thesexofit said:

Q,Bill Bottrell

teddy riley and mj work great together, and yes mj alone has produced some great songs, i think stranger in moscow he produced on his own, and maybe they dont care about us, and their both great songs with very good production, imo!

Oh yeah bill botrell! I forgot about him! He is on 'streetwalker'' and yet that is a BAD era track! I say that because he is on some of the tracks from the DANGEROUS era! So he fired Quincy but kept Bill!


What else has Bill done?


Also Byran loren did a great job on Jacko tracks like 'do the bartman'' and the funky as hell ''superfly sister''.....I wanna c more of those collaborations damnit!
[Edited 11/22/04 5:29am]

Mike didnt fire Q as far as I know, but i dont know whether he was planin on using new producers, but i know that Quincy felt he had to move on any way. Give in to Me is one of My faves (with Slash of Guns and Roses), and if i remember correctly, Bill Botrell did that with Mike. Out of the Producers named in the original question, undougbtably it has to be Teddy. And yes, nowadays i MUCH prefer the tracks Mike Produces himself, for himself man.

Jam & Lewis, simply because of the strength of their work and their longevity over the years.

Teddy Riley's best jams were contained mainly in the '90s. He hasn't been hitting in my opinion since Blackstreet's "No Diggity." That was his last big cut.

Rodney Jerkins is about as interchangable as these chicks that sing hooks on rap tracks. I don't see the fuss over him. His creative peak came with Brandy's
"Never Say Never" album and "The Boy Is Mine" in '98. He's not as flexible or as adventurous as Jam & Lewis or even Teddy Riley. His work on MJ's Invincible was decent. But it irks me that he has encourages the artists he works with to leave his calling card at the beginning of the tracks. You know, "YEAH, 2002, DARKCHILD." "Oohhhh, Darkchild." That's really corny, IMO.

Jam & Lewis don't have to do that. They've been jamming for over 20 years -- producing everyone from Janet to Alexander O'Neal, Cherelle, Herb Alpert, Human League, Jordan Knight, etc. --- and they're still making creative stuff (their production on Gwen Stefani's "Harajuku Girls"). They still make quality stuff when they want to and show no signs of fading.

Mike needs to pull a Madonna and find some unknown producer and just come up with something totally new and different than he's ever done before

JAN

Whilst i generally agree with your sentiments, the question asks who was the best producer for MJ. And in that narrow context I'd give the award to Teddy Riley. That said, I think the work J&L did on HIStory was more daring.

PS: I hear what you're saying about that annoying 'Darkchild' signature. Apparently, Sony/Epic removed it from MJ's You Rock My World single only for Jerkins to kick up a stink and it was consequently added again for the final edit.

JANFAN4L said:

papaa said:

I feel where you're coming from. Teddy made some quality stuff on the Dangerous LP and I was feeling the cuts on Blood On The Dancefloor. With Invincible, I felt "Heaven Can Wait," however, he sounded dated on "2000 Watts," IMHO.

Teddy made more cuts than J&L, so he's the obvious pick of a lot of folks in this thread, but if you peep the HIStory LP the stuff that Jam & Lewis did was QUALITY ::thinking of "Scream," "HIStory," "Tabloid Junkie" and "2 Bad"::: I still hear "Scream" on the radio. Teddy's cuts get dated quickly.

I'd even go so far as to say R. Kelly (who's not listed) made just about as much noise as Teddy with cuts like "You Are Not Alone" and "Cry." I still spin those.

ehuffnsd said:

Abso-fricking-lutely!!

Quincy. Period. Check the resume.

namepeace said:

and don't forget Rod. A classic MJ record consists of MJ, Quincy and Rod.

namepeace said:

Pretty much.

I'll take TR if I have to take one from that list. But who he really needs to get with is Raphael Saadiq.

intha916 said:

That would be nice...

Quincy was better. Although, I would like to see MJ collaborate with these guys on his next or future cd's.

Dallas Austin (very underrated IMO)
Jam and Lewis
Raphael Saadiq (good pick Intha916)

DALLAS AUSTIN...

Co-produced one of the tracks on HIStory -- I think it was This Time Around

Yeah, I've always thought Saadiq and MJ would be an interesting combo.

ehuffnsd said:

Exactly.Michael needs to stay away from commercial producers altogether.His strategy for making music is very simple and predictable.He waits five years,takes a look at the Billboard charts,and then calls up EVERY "hot" R&B producer in the Top 10,taking no chances.He's obviously most concerned with selling alot of records,and not the least bit interested in experimenting and trying new,bold sounds (a problem that many other artists have).

No not Saadiq.....boring.....Mikes music never was 4 the serious thinker.....we want pop songs not mellow shit!

Jan, no offence, but Jam and Lewis fucked up badly on "damita jo"! Tons worse then Teddy has done recently ("Wizzy wow" by Blackstreet was cool).....

but, u heard "re-write the memories" off New editons new album? Jam/Lewis still have it as this is a s good, if not better then "can u stand the rain".....I sure hope that it is a single!

Jerkins though surprised me too on "invincible", I thought it would be awful but they collab great! If only this album was the blueprint 4 pop/rnb and not the damn Neptunes!

thesexofit said:

None taken. Personally, BAG & Arnthor did more for Damita Jo than Jam & Lewis this time out. But I won't hold that entirely against them. I'm mad at Janet or Jam & Lewis for not exploring more soundscapes on DJ, shortchanging diehards like me -- I mentioned that in another thread. But, Teddy? Nah, that dude is trapped in the '90s. I'm not goin' back on that statement.

Haven't heard that New Edition cut, but it sounds interesting. Need to check that out.

I'm still not sold on Jerkins. He is garbage, IN MY OPINION. After his work on Tyra Banks' deplorable "Move Ya Body," Blaque's "I'm Good" and Destiny's Child "Smell My Breath" I know his style -- unadventurous, unimaginative and repetitious.

imho jimmy jam and terry lewis are played out,

but not as much as rodney jerkins and teddy riley though.

mike needs to get back to writing melodic tunes with fascinating storylines
(like "billie jean", "smooth criminal", "dirty diana", "liberian girl", "who is
it", "stranger in moscow", "they don't care about us"). he needs a couple of
party tunes ("don't stop..", "get on the floor", "baby be mine", "p.y.t.", "the
way you make me feel", "remember the time"). he needs a couple of conscious
tracks of course ("wanna be startin something", "another part of me", "man in
the mirror"--but try to avoid the corny shit like "heal the world"). he needs a
producer that can execute his ideas in arrangements/orchestration. he needs
session musicians to record the music like they did for "off the wall"--

he should avoid trying to be hip. he will never be hip again. so, no hot
producers, no hot beats from the streets (including those somewhat tiring
flytetyme productions imho)--just music for soul!

oh, i forgot the most important thing: he should start all over again! don't
think about records, don't think about former successes--free your mind and..
[Edited 11/23/04 5:31am]

purpleone said:

Nah, I thought the uptempo's on "invincible" were hot! It's the ballads is where Michael is weak! If u think about it, Mike's ballads have never been as standout as his epic or uptempo songs!

I can never c Mike going back and using real musicians again! wonder if him and Quincy will ever hook up again?

Creatively,Jam and Lewis are done.Their recent productions are largely uninspired,sample-heavy and just plain boring.

Rodney Jerkins' sound hasn't really evolved at all.Another year or so and he will be gone too.

Teddy Riley was the mastermind behind the late-80s "New Jack Swing" sound,but none of his recent productions have been successful.His sound is stale.


If MJ ever makes another record,he should steer clear of the usual suspects.At this point,he could make a more interesting CD by locking himself into a studio for a month with an unknown garage rock band.

Hmmm, if Michael does make another album, i wonder who he'll work with? He left out Jam/Lewis on "invincible" as far as i know.....the david foster cut "fall again" off the box set was nice so maybe him on a bllad tip.....Michael and Babyfacw work well together too!

And the Billy Botrell tracks r usually very good,so did where he go?

anyway.....Michael do something!!!

DavidEye said:

While I think you're being a bit harsh on Jam & Lewis I agree that "(MJ) should steer clear of the usual suspects"

thesexofit said:

this is how i see it:

mike should write like he did for the "bad" album--
this album contains some beautiful melodies and fantastic storylines. he should take that and execute it like they did for the "off the wall" album, with live instrumentation. real funk, you know? maybe toughen it up a little, cause this ain't 1979 anymore of course.

this electronic phase doesn't suit mike anymore. it's weird hearing him sing on tracks like "xscape" and "unbreakable"--dude's 46 years old! it doesn't suit him anymore. but maybe i'm alone in this.

so, i'd create that album with a quincy-like producer (someone who's schooled in music history, arranging, orchestration, knows how to realize mike's ideas and knows when to trim the fat--"invincible" tracks go on for way too long!).

then i'd release the album with no promotion whatsoever. maybe even release a white label single and throw it in rotation. just start a little underground buzz--word on the street will be out in no time. so, no hype. that way no critic will blame mike for creating the abnormal hype he always creates, no critic will bitch about how full he is of himself--all they can criticize will be the music. if mike releases an album noone expects, people will automatically be more willing to give it a chance. and that's what it's all about!

most people (except for the diehard fans) have already dismissed mike. noone is really expecting anything, but rehashed ideas and routines. this could change that.