well....

There aren't?

VoicesCarry said:

well think about it. Can you think of a female equivalent of Mozart, Duke Ellington, Stevie Wonder, Miles Davis, Prince etc..? I mean you might say Carole king, Joni Mitchell, Regina Carter, but anyone else I might think of would only be a great singer, not a great overall musician.

I think there are some extremely talented female artists out there, but I agree they do seem to come in much smaller numbers, and they are fewer and more far apart.

Female artists seem more inclined to play the sex-appeal pop star role than that of the artist.

That, or they play the role of folk singer. This usually means strumming chords on an acoustic guitar and singing songs about flowers and seagulls.
[Edited 11/6/04 22:48pm]

Women in music are stronger than ever. Before Janis Joplin and Joni Mitchell really, they had very little control over the direction of their careers. That said, there have been many, many wonderful vocalists and MUSICIANS, especially in the last 30 some years.

Joni Mitchell - as good a songwriter as they come

Nina Simone - breathtaking vocals and piano playing

Tori Amos - kicks ultimate ass on her instrument; as accomplished as any male you'll see if not moreso

Tina Weymouth - just listen to her bass and you'll understand

PJ Harvey - killer guitars, killer voice, killer songs, killer live show

Mary J. Blige - she may be seen as one of the greats someday

Bjork - the way she looks at music is completely revolutionary; she has no precedent

There have always been female musical greats.
Perhaps, the public didn't get exposed to their genius due to gender oppression and social custom.

You mention Mozart ... you know of course, that he had a sister who was also a musical prodigy. When she was young, people called her a "child wonder," but then she grew up enough to clean people's houses.

You never hear about her, although like him she got to play before the Queen. And because history is really HISstory and chronicles the lives of men (white men mostly), and very few women .. aside from a few references to Mozart's sister, I've never heard what happened to her.I think she ended up teaching music.

The lack of information on female composers from the classical period onward is pretty sad and disconcerting. That doesn't mean they lacked skills and didn't exist ... throughout the generations they've simply created in obscurity. And those who knew of their creations, didn't deem them significant enough to preserve for posterity.

It's the same in literature. Poor Dorothy Wordsworth wrote in her little private journal ... While brother William Wordsworth got the praise for penning poetry that suspiciously mirrored the imagery, metaphors and themes in her journals.

What an indictment against human society.

I hate how popular female artists have to vamp up their image to sell a record.

Male artists are NEVER judged on their looks as harshly as females. That irks me.

Ani DiFranco. Great vocalist, lyricist, guitar player, producer, record label owner. How do you account for that?
[Edited 11/7/04 0:37am]

i think there are more women than men in my CD collection.

Lisa Gerrard

Laura Nyro

k.d. lang

Meredith Monk

Liz Phair

Courtney Love

Madonna

Sade

Billie Holiday

Donna Summer

Patrice Rushen

Chaka Khan

Kim Deal

Debbie Harry

Patti Smith

Annie Lennox

Chrissie Hynde

Sinead O'Conner

Kate Bush

Laurie Anderson

its called sexism.

SynthiaRose said:

Ain't it the muthafunkin truth.

In college we had to write a paper on a composer. I asked my intructor if there were any female composers that I could research. All she could come up with was Clara Schumann. She was married to Robert Schumann.

http://www.geneva.edu/~dk...umann.html



Clara Wieck Schumann
The Premier Female Musician of the 19th Century
Accomplished Composer and Virtuoso Pianist

Clara Josephine Wieck Schumann (September 13 , 1819 - May 20, 1896), wife of composer Robert Schumann, trained from an early age by her father Friedrich Wieck, had a brilliant career as a pianist from the age of thirteen up to her marriage. In the various tours on which she accompanied her husband, she extended her own reputation farther than the outskirts of Germany, and it was thanks to her efforts that his compositions became generally known in Europe.

From the time of her husband's death she devoted herself principally to the interpretation of her husband's works, but when in 1856 she first visited England the critics received Schumann's music with a chorus of disapprobation. She returned to London in 1865 and continued her visits annually, with the exception of four seasons, until 1882; and from 1885 to 1888 she appeared each year. In 1878 she was appointed teacher of the piano at the Hoch Conservatorium at Frankfurt am Main, a post which she held until 1892, and in which she contributed greatly to the modern improvement in technique.


As an artist she will be remembered, together with Joseph Joachim, as one of the first executants who really played like composers. Besides being remembered for her eminence as a performer of nearly all kinds of pianoforte music, at a time when such technical ability was considerably rarer than in the present day, she was herself the composer of a few songs and of some charming music, mainly for the piano, and the authoritative editor of her husband's works for Breitkopf and Härtel.
[Edited 11/7/04 9:12am]

jacktheimprovident said:

y'know i've been wonderingthe same thing myself.
i always here about the great female SINGERS and thats nice but i never hear about any great female MUSICIANS.
i always hear about the dudes
prince
hendrix
stevie wonder
all those classical piano dudes
miles davis etc etc

but where are their female equivalents?

Rhondab said:

Thank you. Just like other industries are controlled by males, so is the music industry. And the leeway and freedom for men does NOT exist for females as a whole. I said, as a whole, knee jerk reactionaries stay away.

The females throughout history in the music business have to work three times as hard to get where they want as the males do.

And just as there are Black rock bands out there (you didn't know a ton of them exist?) who never get signed, or get signed and not given the same promotional backing as their White counterparts, there are female musicians and recording artists who never get signed, or are never given the equal opportunity once they get signed. Consequently, their careers are sometimes shorter.

You're expected to stay in your traditional role as a female musician (not many drummers, brass players, bass players, electric guitarists, producers, and certainly not many female BANDS). Sing and look pretty. No creative control.

If your ambition is outside of that status quo, good luck with that. It can happen, but 100 of your male counterparts will get signed before you will.

Aside from being a GREAT recording artist, Ani DiFranco is exalted for a very good reason. She has everything she wants due to her work outside the status quo. She calls the shots, in the studio and on the road. She owns her work. She assembles her bands. She has creative control. Nobody but the taxman tells her what to do.

Rhondab said:

I couldn't be more succinct than that .

What about Janis Joplin

Fuck all of you

jayaredee said:

Err....we're all agreeing with you. Fuck you too!

Wow, I just found an amazing website

The following is a list of famous female composers. http://encyclopedia.thefr...0composers

And how about Hildegard von Bingen? Anybody remember this?


Vision is kinda New Agey, but Canticles of Ecstacy is more traditional. You can listen to that here: http://music.msn.com/albu...m=29455635

Here is a nice bio: http://www.fordham.edu/ha...garde.html

Supernova said:

Well said.

whodknee said:

Indeed. Although I think there's more to it than that. I think women, throughout history, in addition to being repressed/oppressed, have been trained to be complicit with their oppression. I think women are taught to be docile, submissive, stupid and superficial and I think that's still very true despite the progress that's been made. Women aren't encouraged to be assertive or to develop their talents as much as men, they're more encouraged to be pretty and to get a good man, and even if you don't buy that you can't argue that women are judged more on their looks than their talent or merits.

Indeed. Although I think there's more to it than that. I think women, throughout history, in addition to being repressed/oppressed, have been trained to be complicit with their oppression. I think women are taught to be docile, submissive, stupid and superficial and I think that's still very true despite the progress that's been made. Women aren't encouraged to be assertive or to develop their talents as much as men, they're more encouraged to be pretty and to get a good man, and even if you don't buy that you can't argue that women are judged more on their looks than their talent or merits.[/quote]


That's why it's important to support people like Ani who prove that there's much more to a woman than looks and nurturing the male ego. By the same token you have to admit that many women have been more than willing to get by on their looks, so you can't put ALL of the blame on men-- just most of it.

I honestly listen to Ani because she articulates things in ways that most men, even Prince, won't or can't. The female perspective is sorely under-represented in our society and it's necessary to our well-being.
[Edited 11/7/04 12:53pm]

Becoz you don't hear about 'em(or you choose not to) lemme drop some names for you and you be the judge:

-Bessie Smith

-Billie Holiday AKA Lady Day

-Ellla Fitzgerald

-Sarah Vaughan AKA Sassy

-The Queen Of Gospel Miss Mahalia Jackson

-Marian Anderson, the 1st black female opera vocalist.

-Mary Lou Williams, the 1st black female bandleader/arranger and the mentor for the bebop musicians(Dizzy, Bird, Miles, Bud, Monk & them).

-Hazel Scott, the 1st musician to infuse boogie woogie/stride piano with classical and the 1st black woman to have her own TV SHOW.

-Pearl Bailey, the 1st black female comediene and broadway star.

-Dinah "Queenie" Washington AKA The Queen Of Jukebox

-Aunt 'Retha, The Queen Of Soul

-Chaka Khan, The queen of fusion.


What else do you wanna know?
[Edited 11/7/04 13:19pm]

Harlepolis said:

All due respect to these ladies, most of them are just singers (emphasis on MOST)

And so are Tony Bennett, Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Luciano Pavarotti, Elvis Presley (plays guitar a bit better than Madonna), Robert Plant, Joe Williams, Smokey Robinson, etc. But nobody questions the merits of their legendary status.

And in general, most singers of that era have at least some rudimentary knowledge/experience of playing piano chords or guitar chords, male and female.

jacktheimprovident said:

But what great singers they are....all of them icons...

(...tho I hope CK doesn't still hit those Newports... )