GooeyTheHamster said:

'Disco science' is what 'spunk' sounds like...

DavidEye said:

Well, YES.
Or I could send them to you. I also have the album for you on CD.

I really dislike his music and the course Madonna's music has taken since Music. Even though singular beauties as To Deserve You and What It Feels Like are amazing, I think his style is a bit too flimsy to fit Madonna's ego.

Of all his tracks he did with Madonna I am only willing to say that Impressive Instant and aforementioned songs are worth listening to. And Impr. Inst. only because of that amazing sounscape that rips through the songs... it make sme wanna dance.

I always find Impressive instant very overrated by fans...
'Paradise' on the other hand is just fucking stunning.. .
If Edith Piaf & Serge Gainsbourg were still alive & they'd join forces
it'd prolly sound like that...

I like the idea of her working with real songwriters again to write the songs. one of my only complaints about her recent "electronica" (for lack of a better term, yes, gag me) phase is that they're let down on the hook side.


I'd really like her to write with Pat Leonard, Stephen Bray, Rick Knowles, Babyface.... and then sit down with the Orbits, the Mirwais, the Gores, the Devries, to produce it.


the stuff she wrote with real songwriters and produced with the techno people on all 3 of the last albums was the best stuff.

GrayKing said:

I second that great opinion.

Nah, Mer Girl, Paradise, Don't Tell Me, Music..Easy Ride
They wipe the floor with all things Leonard & Knowles.. .
Her babyface stuff is fooking awful...

Martinelli said:

Don't Tell Me is one of the songs that supports my case. written by Joe Henry. Easy Ride was written with Monte Pitman (??)


the others you listed are certainly nice, but a bit repetitive and could have been a lot better with a stronger music track. the production on them is fine, but that's all they are.... production tracks with not a lot going on musically. i like all of those songs, but they seem to be a bit "soulless" if you know what i mean.



Ray Of Light, Candy Perfume Girl, Skin, Nothing Really Matters, Sky Fits Heaven, Frozen, The Power Of Goodbye, To Have And Not To Hold, Little Star, Has To Be, Don't Tell Me, What It Feels Like For a Girl, Gone, Nothing Fails, X-Static Process, Easy Ride. all written with people other than Orbit/Mirwais before the producers gave them their treatment.


while i don't necessarily like some of these songs more than, say Paradise, Drowned World or Music, there is more going on musically here, when the songs have outside writing collaborators besides Orbit and Mirwais, to hang all of the rest on.

it's just my opinion, but i like the electronica treatment Mirwais and Orbit gave to songs already written with other people. the ones she wrote strictly with them come off as cold and soulless to me. not all of them, but a large number of them.

and going back to Babyface, he's definitely not my favorite collaborator of hers, but the fact that in 1994, when his whole thing was pretty played out, she could get a Forbidden Love and a Take A Bow out of him is pretty impressive. both great songs, and miles ahead of his other work around that time.
[Edited 10/27/04 14:44pm]

I think I know what u like about those songs GrayKing..

But in the case of Mer Girl, the lack of 'real' music 'makes'
the song..it jus a soundscape that keeps building. As far as
Don't tell Me & Easy Ride (written with Monte as an accoustic ballad) r concerned I think Mirwaïs created some great music.. . I like that whole
stiff is the new hard sparseness approach...I think it would b really cool
on a funk record.
[Edited 10/27/04 15:16pm]

Martinelli said:

oh, i like what she's done with Mirwais just fine. i just don't see him as a great songwriting collaborator. and Mer Girl is great as well. it is what it is, it's wonderful. but it's not presenting itself as a song anyway, really. as you say, it's a soundscape. i like those too, but i feel like a lot of the songs she did solely with the input of Mirwais or Orbit are lacking in depth musically, with weak melodies and are pretty much one-note wonders. those are fine, interspersed throughought an album with strong, catchy songs. but it's evident to me, listening to the work she's done with Mirwais and Orbit, that the producers have their limits. they aren't songwriters, they're producers. they're great at it, but a lot of the songrwiting they do with her is same-y.


as much as i love Erotica and the other work she did with Shep Pettibone, i think she rightly realized in the early stages of recording the album that would become Bedtime Stories that she had hit the limit with what she could do with him.
[Edited 10/27/04 15:22pm]

point well taken..I think some of those songs come of that way (2 some people) 'cuz Madge 'My boyfriend gave me a guitar for Xmas' is the primary songwriter..if u catch my drift.

the lyrics and hooks are hers

read any interview by Pat before he deicded not to talk about her, Mirwais, WO, Shep, Dallas, STeven, Nile, Babyface, Andre, Nelle, and whomever else i'm forgettting, They agree that she has most of the songs planed out and they just assist her where she lacks the know how.

The reason the songs are classics are because they are written and sung from the heart. not amount of talent or vocal training can overpower the true emotion of someone singing a song they wrote about an experience of their own.

because of her image people overlook her songwriting and producing

ehuffnsd said:

still, the formula seems to work better when she's with a producer who's also a good songwriter, and can translate what she's "da da da doo doo dooing" in their ear into something worth listening to beyond the "it sounds cool" factor.

As a Madonna fan, I really don't want another electronic album!!!

I'd prefer Madonna to create another POP Album...I was watching her Girlie Show Concert earlier today and thought, how cool would it be if she did a song with her girls (Nikki and Donna); perhaps something the (3) could harmonize on...like they did on stage for the song "Rain/Just My Imagination", oh that was so damn hott!

Just an acoustic, wilson phillips ditty!
And we can't forget their harmonizing on "Holiday" during Truth or Dare Movie prior to going onstage...of course call up: Joe Henry, Pat Leonard & David Foster for some kind of reunion production.

I want another great pop record from Madonna, no hip hop, no electronic, just pure pop-dance record!

Something that will remind me of old times, but in 2005!!!
[Edited 10/27/04 23:17pm]

NPD313 said:

I would love for Madonna to make a retro-sounding dance album,not unlike Jamiroquai's last album 'A Funk Odyssey'.Keep the electronica elements,but bring in more real instruments,bass,maybe some horns.I also think she should work with the Danish electro-pop duo Junior Senior on a few tracks...their 2003 hit "Move Your Feet" is just the type of song that Madonna needs.

NPD313 said:

thanks to Madonna, electronica IS pop. just listen to the uptempo songs on Kylie's and George Michael's latest offerings. or Britney's. or Lindsey Lohan's.

i enjoy it, but i do wonder if there'll ever be a pop song that isn't drenched in vocal effects and buzzing/whirring.