I've been thinking about this one for a long time. Certainly duke is the greatest composer of jazz and miles is the greatest trendsetter in jazz, but which one of the two best represents jazz as a genre?

jacktheimprovident said:

Duke Ellington was one of the greatest composers in ANY genre, period. Miles Davis was a great innovator. If he hadn't been a musician he would have invented the equivalent of the lightbulb. Neither, however, "personify" jazz. You need to go away and find out about Armstrong, Basie, Goodman, Fitzgerald, Holliday, Coleman, Parker, Gillespie, Coltrane, Mingus, Monk, Rollins, Roach, Dolphy - to name but a few.

jacktheimprovident said:

Both. Each artist personafies the sophistication of Jazz Music.

All due respect, that question is like asking:

Who best personifies basketball: Jordan or West?

Who best personifies football: Lombardi or Rockne?

Who best personifies rock music: The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?

It's a question which is impossible to answer because there is no real distinction between the greatness of either.

I realize most people around here think music is like sports, vs. this, vs. that.

But neither one of these guys personified Jazz any MORE than the other. They're different, but equally as vital and necessary to the genre.

Yeah, more of the above. It should be no contest.

They're both great, but ppl who are not into jazz always know who Miles Davis is.

Shapeshifter said:

I'm well aware of all those people and their work. I just think that miles davis and duke ellington are probably the best of the best and I think they're careers best represent the history of jazz as whole. Yeah it was kinda a lame question, I just wanted to see what people would say.

jacktheimprovident said:

I don't think it was a lame question at all. You were expressing an opinion - and a perfectly valid one at that. I have a question for you (and anyone else dropping by here): who do you consider the greater innovator, Miles, Trane or Ornette Coleman?

I don't think the original question is about innovation or even quality. Therefore the answer is very simple: Miles Davis. Miles Davis surely is "Mr. Jazz". He's the figurehead.

Seldom voiced fact: Even though it's common knowledge in the jazz circles that Europeans can appreciate jazz as an art form more than Americans themselves, Europeans do not hold swing composers / performers (like Duke Ellington) in that gratifying light. They are respected, but not especially revered over here. That tradition of jazz music never really made it overseas as anything else than as a form of quality entertainment.

Novabreaker said:

If you're talking pure figureheads then yes, Miles Davis is to jazz what Elvis is to rock n roll, The Beatles are to the sixties and Bob Marley is to reggae - a totem.

Next question: is jazz dead?

Shapeshifter said:

I DON'T think so, for a few reasons.

1. The music is timeless. Sketches of Spain, Speak No Evil, Mingus Ah Um, A Love Supreme, et al. will inspire people for generations to come.

2. There are talented artists out there that represent jazz pretty well, including legends such as McCoy Tyner.

3. The influence of jazz is heard in other forms of music, from rock, to R&B, to nu jazz/electronica.

It may not be commercially viable ever again, there may not be another revolutionary artist on the horizon, but it will live on.

answer edit
[Edited 10/26/04 15:37pm]

Shapeshifter said:

"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny."
~Frank Zappa

What a great topic.
No time to elaborate fully on the subject now but I couldn't resist the straight line.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

Neither. What each man brought to music and to the world goes far beyond a simple term called "jazz". Their influence spans all genres. For this reason, they are not just jazz icons, but music icons.

Thank you everybody for your contributions. My personal take: their both pretty even. If you had to name only two people in jazz history it would be them and you couldn't omitt one or the other.