I'm a relatively new fans of Bowie and only have a few albums so far . I really love "Heathen" which I've been playing constantly for about a week. I was just wondering how all the Bowie fans rate this album in comparison with some of his earlier stuff???

IMO it's some of the best stuff he has done since his classic years.

I also have Reality but I don't seem to be able to get into it as much as Heathen. I think it will probably grow on me over time. I just think his voice is absolutely amazing on the opening track "Sunday" on Heathen. I also love Cactus, Afraid and Everyone says Hi. I just think its an amazing album. This is probably old news to everyone else but it just clicked with me. Have to go get some of the old stuff now.

LolaM said:

Forget "Reality". It's throwaway rubbish, mostly bits of song knocked together and put out so he'd have something to tour behind. Except "Bring Me The Disco King". That's good.

"Heathen" is much better, but it doesn't really deserve all the praise that was heaped on it. "Outside" is his last masterpiece.

Shapeshifter said:

I recently got Heathen. I really enjoyed it. SUnday and Everyone says Hi are my favorites so far off of it. I didn't hear that much about it when it first came out...unlike Outside...which was a friend saying "You HAVE to get this" and I did and liked it a lot.

I'm planning on getting Station to Station, Low or one of those soon...my friend has been letting me play his Bowie vinyl records, so I have been getting into him a bit more lately. Changes has been playing non stop all day so far in the background.

I found Station 2 Station & Low very addictive when I 1st got them..
They totally got me hooked on the Dame..

5:15 The Angels Have Gone.

Absolutely one of his best. It's turned into one of my all-time favorites. There's just so much emotion and urgency behind these songs. And the sound of it is just thrilling. I tend to like the more atmospheric and detailed songs on it the best like 5:15, Sunday, Heathen (The Rays), A Better Future, Slip Away, etc. But it's all great. I think most Bowie fans consider it a very good album and a good percentage think it's one of his best.

It's easily his best since the classic days - meaning most cohesive whilst retaining a high level of artistry as well. And that means best since "Scary Monsters".

Not my personal favourite from his late-period output though ("1.Outside" and "The Buddha of Suburbia" are prolly the ones that I like more myself) but viewed more objectively, "Heathen" is not that far away from the quality of "Heroes".

I loved Heathen-really surprised me.

It's the perfect album to listen to at 2 in the morning in the dark with your eyes closed just letting the pictures come into your head.

Reality I enjoyed but I thought the Bring Me The Disco King remix on Disc 2 of the 2-CD version was better than anything on the album itself.

subhuman09 said:

At first, I didn't like the album version in comparison to the Loner Mix. Now I think they're both perfect.

Heathen is very solid, but so are Reality and Hours. I really think that Hours gets dissed unnecessarily... it's a very good record. Those 3 really work together, stylistically they are a trilogy. Heathen is the centerpiece, the best of the 3... stellar b-sides also. I burned a 19 track version of Heathen which included most of the b-sides. But Reality and Hours are worthwhile, too.

JonSnow said:

Hours is wonderful. I don't know why it gets such a bad wrap either. Maybe cuz it's so world-weary and depressing. Even though it was before his reunion with Visconti and Earl Slick and his falling out with Reeves, it still sounds like a classic Bowie album. The non-album material for that one is top-notch as well. I just wish he'd put out "Toy" now. And that damn box set for Outside/Earthling/Hours.

GangstaFam said:

most, if not all, of the Toy tracks are out. They were incorporated into Heathen, and the others were Heathen B-sides. That's why some Heathen tracks (and b-sides) have a very weird retro sound to them (like Slip Away, for example... sounds a bit like Drive In Saturday).

JonSnow said:

I don't think most are out. Are they? The only ones I know about are

Shadow Man
Conversation Piece
Baby Loves That Way
You've Got A Habit Of Leaving
and Slip Away was changed for Heathen wasn't it? Wasn't it called "Uncle Floyd" previously?

GangstaFam said:

Yeah, I think it was originally called Uncle Floyd - i believe it was either re-recorded or substantially remixed for Heathen, but it's my understanding that it, and several other Heathen tracks, were from Toy. But I could be wrong about that It's been a while since I've read about it.

JonSnow said:

I think only Uncle Floyd and possibly Afraid were considered for it. I'm pretty sure over half of it hasn't been released. Let me see if I can dig up a confirmed tracklist.

Here's what I found about Toy on teenagewildlife.


After performing 'Can't Help Thinking About Me', 'I Dig Everything' and 'The London Boys' on the short tours of 1999/2000, Bowie became enthusiastic about the idea of re-recording some lesser known songs from the early days of his career. These re-recordings, together with a couple of new songs written in the same spirit, were to appear on an album that was scheduled for mid-2001, tentatively titled Toy. According to David's journal on BowieNet, the production and artwork of the album were finished already in early 2001. However, time passed and rumours filtered through that Virgin appeared to be reluctant to release an album full of songs they didn't have the rights to. At the end of 2001, Bowie left Virgin to set up his own record label ISO, but so far Toy remains unreleased.

A couple of songs recorded for Toy now have appeared on Heathen and as B-sides of its first single 'Slow Burn'. In this temporary section (Bowie after all says he still intends to release Toy one day!), I'll summarise where to find the songs that have been released. According to a reliable source, Toy was supposed to have featured the following tracks:

Uncle Floyd/Afraid/Baby Loves That Way/I Dig Everything/Conversation Piece/Let Me Sleep Beside You/Toy/Hole In The Ground/Shadow Man/In The Heat of the Morning/You've Got a Habit Of Leaving/Karma Man.

Surely more tracks were recorded for possible B-sides. An excerpt from one of these, 'The London Boys', has recently been made available. In alphabetical order, these are the songs recorded for Toy:


Afraid: has appeared on Heathen.

Baby Loves That Way: released on the Japanese 'Slow Burn' (Sony SICP-162) and UK and EC 'Everyone Says 'Hi' CD single (ISO/Columbia 673134 5 and ISO/Columbia COL 673076 2).

Conversation Piece: appeared on the bonus disc of the 2CD edition of Heathen.

Hole In The Ground: remains unreleased.

I Dig Everything: remains unreleased.

In The Heat of the Morning: remains unreleased.

Karma Man: remains unreleased.

Let Me Sleep Beside You: remains unreleased.

London Boys, The: in July 2002, a 1'26" excerpt was issued as a "secret B-side" on a section of BowieNet dedicated to Heathen, followed in August by another 1'30" excerpt. As the latter is faded out, both pieces still do not cover the entire song.

Shadow Man: included on both EC editions of the 'Slow Burn' CD-single (ISO/Columbia COL 672744 1 and COL 672744 2) and on the UK 'Everyone Says 'Hi'' single (ISO/Columbia 673134 3).

Toy: this track was later offered as a free download (re-titled 'Your Turn To Drive') to customers who ordered their copy of Reality online from HMV.

Uncle Floyd: this song was re-recorded for Heathen as 'Slip Away'; the Toy version remains unreleased.

You've Got a Habit Of Leaving: featured on the EC 'Slow Burn' (ISO/Columbia COL 672744 2) and UK 'Everyone Says 'Hi' singles (ISO/Columbia 673134 5).

I always forget that "Your Turn To Drive" is actually the song "Toy". So that's one more that's been released.

So I guess that makes it 7 out of 13 tracks released. Over half. Now put the rest out please!

GangstaFam said:

cool..! i stand corrected, thanks for the info!

I bet they will see the light of day one of these days.. wasn't there talk at one point about a David Bowie Anthology series, similar to the Beatles anthology project? Or maybe that has fallen by the wayside w/ the deluxe reissues... but with those reissues, at this pace, i'll be in my 60's by the time Heathen gets its bonus disc

JonSnow said:

For real. I haven't heard of the Anthology series. It's hard to wait a whole year every time for a new Bowie 30th anniversary edition to come out. I want it all now!

GangstaFam said:

Your right, but yikes... if he released them all at once, that would put a SERIOUS dent in my wallet, LOL

I still haven't gotten around to getting Diamond Dogs... the Aladdin Sane reissue is just fantastic. So is Ziggy. Still don't know why he skipped the 1st 3 albums, though.

JonSnow said:

Yeah, especially Hunky Dory. That's one of his most legendary and there's so much outtake material from that one. It would make a great 2 disc set. The Diamond Dogs is also very nice, but I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't use it as an opportunity to get out the missing tracks from the abandoned 1984 and Ziggy musicals.

CACTUS is such a great cover.

dawntreader said:

For as much as he was performing it on TV, I thought for sure it would be a single. It shoulda been.

GangstaFam said:

That's how it ended up being for me too actually-listening to the Loner Mix made me appreciate the album version more-still love the Loner Mix more though, but they're on a bit more equal footing.

GangstaFam said:

I'm gonna be really dumb and ask "Is Cactus a cover??" Who originally wrote/performed this song???

LolaM said:

Just found that its The Pixies. Is this correct??

LolaM said:

yep!