Everyone back in the day remembers it was Prince vs. Rick James. Both artists were extemely talented and had a sound and style of their own. It was neck and neck there for a while until "Purple Rain". Anyone knows that Prince was the ultimate winner with "Purple Rain", but I've been thinking about horns and what affect they have had on both artists' music.

In the early days, Prince's music was mostly synths in the place of where horns would be. When people thought of Prince in those days, they thought of that sound. Rick James always used real horns and they worked very well for him. Rick also had his own sound. I can't really explain it, but if you are a Rick James fan, you know what I mean. You could recognize a Rick James record as soon as you heard it, just like you could with a Prince record.

Anyway, when "Purple Rain" blew up, Prince went in a total different direction. He eventually started using more and more real horns in his music. Rick James, on the other hand, started using less and less real horns in his music.

I'm not saying, by no means, that Prince was trying to copy Rick with the horns because he wasn't. Prince's music, in no way, resembled Rick's. Prince's music started sounding more and more James Brown influenced. Rick, on the other hand, started eliminating most of the horns from his music, began wearing more and more make-up like Prince, and even began dressing like Prince with the ruffled shirts. His music started getting weaker also, it lost that Rick James edge. Prince's had lost that Prince edge also but Prince had gained a whole new broader audience with "Purple Rain" as well some lingering old fans. Rick James didn't have near the mass appeal that Prince had, even with his pop success of "Super Freak".

I thought the horns worked very well with Rick James and helped to define the "punk funk" sound. I think when he started straying away from them, he lost his signature sound. I'm a huge Rick James fan but I will be the first to admit that he became very jealous of Prince and that contributed to his downfall. I think if he had focused more on being Rick James and still tried to beat Prince by continuing to be Rick James, instead of trying to immitate Prince, he would have been around a lot longer.

Anyway, that's my opinion. What do you think?

I sort of agree, but listen to a song like "give it to me baby" and Rick combined those sexy slinky synth lines with real horns to make it so funky.. I miss the DMSR synth horns and dont really like the real James Brown horns anymore, they sound dated... "Baby I'm a Star" with real horms is Vegas all the way..

Slick Rick had incredible production and fuky dance beats... he was coollll...

I agree with you all the way about both Rick and Prince. Rick had the perfection combination of horns and synths and they worked for him and "Baby I'm A Star" with horns definately sounds "Vegasy".
[Edited 10/21/04 4:02am]

Yeah,I was kinda disappointed when Rick started to eliminate horns from his music.This started in the mid-80s,when he began using alot of drum machines and synths.The songs were still good ("Cold Blooded"..."17"...."Glow") but something was missing.The music became colder and more electronic.I guess he was just trying to fit in with the times.

Rick and Prince both had distinctive sounds... rick had the claps and percussion gated with a slight flange.where has prince used loads of flange and triggered Linn drum sequences.

I know exactly what you mean, also. My favorite Prince music is the "cold electronic" music. That sound worked really well for Prince and helped set him apart from a lot of the other funk artists at the time. I'm the opposite when it comes to Rick James though. I like Rick's sound much better with the horns.

The "Cold Blooded" album was the first to become cold but I still enjoyed it all the way through. I enjoyed the song "17" from the "Reflections" album, it reminded me of the song "Cold Blooded". The albums "Glow", "The Flag", and "Wonderful" had almost totally lost that Rick James sound. You're right also, a lot of it did have to do with fitting in with the times.

Vain...what do you think of Rick's 1986 album 'The Flag'? That album is dreadful and I was VERY dissapointed.A year ago,I found it on CD and I bought it,but it's not a good album by any means.

I haven't listened to "Glow" or "The Flag" in years until recently, since his death. I've always considered "Glow" his worst album but after listening to both of them recently, "The Flag" has replaced "Glow" as the worst Rick James album.

vainandy said:

No argument there

But 'Glow' is a much better album than 'The Flag'.

I'm not really knowledgeable about Rick James, but it seems fair to agree with your post by saying that each went in the direction they though woud sell records, and as time went on, that was farther and farther from where they started. I do like all the Rick James I've heard, and there's gonna be another Rick James song on the new GTA game, so bully for you and this thread.

Interesting observations but with all due respect to RJ, I think his career started going bad when he tied up that woman and burned her with a crack pipe.

Slave2daGroove said:

Insightful!

vainandy said:

I never thought of anyone vs. anyone back then. I never think of it now, til I come to Prince.org.

I dug Rick's music up until...probably "Bustin Out," but honestly, Prince could have retired after the 1999 album and blown everything Rick ever did out of the water with it.

I say that as a fan of Rick James before he became formulaic. Rick just never had the range that Prince did.

And it's not that Rick only had a problem with Prince's acclaim, Rick seems to have had a problem with many over the years that have gotten more acclaim than him. It's a character streak he eventually became known for.

vainandy said:

Yep. Drugs, like with Sly, was also Rick's downfall. Prince had issues, BUT P used his issues by focasing it towards his music. P's 1999 album is loaded with insecurities. But he used it. He didn't let it use him.

blackguitaristz said:

blackguitaristz said:

Sorry, focus not focas.

Supernova said:

aren't you glad these fine people of Prince.org are teaching you how to REALLY appreciate music the way it's meant to be?

What's a GTA game?

I think it was going downhill already but that incident helped to totally kill it.

Very true but it seems like he had a problem with Prince more than anyone else.

By the way, nice to have you back Supernova.

I totally agree.

FunkMistress said:

thank u baby.

vainandy said:

Sorry, Grand Theft Auto. When you steal a car, you get to listen to the radio in the car. The guys who made the games looove funk and had a funk/R&B station set in the '80s in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. The new game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, will have more Rick James as well as some Ohio Players.

I think some of Prince's music sounds like Rick James style...you know he was hearing him! And who didn't??!!! I felt sorry I didn't get into Rick James back in the day, I was just a little lad, but Rick James got EVERYTHING in his music too, he's one of the few that can't be topped, his music was so affecting, and still is, very heavy on emotion and everything else.
[Edited 10/22/04 16:44pm]

Starmist7 said:

Yeah Rick held down the FUNK until Prince came along and did something interesting with it like it was meant to be done. Rick,Gap and Prince kept funk alive in the 80's.

Prince was on another level of creativity. No disrespect.

vainandy said:

Supernova said: