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Was Tupac really all that? Before you guys get ready to jump down my throat, i'm asking a serious question. As someone who doesn't know much about rap beyond the 80's, was he really the best MC ever? Personally I think melle Mel is! | |
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dancerella said: Before you guys get ready to jump down my throat, i'm asking a serious question. As someone who doesn't know much about rap beyond the 80's, was he really the best MC ever? Personally I think melle Mel is!
Pac was more of a poet. I wouldn't say he was the best MC post 1980s hip-hop, but was a very prolific writer in his own right. As far as MC-ing goes post 80s hip-hop, I would say Jay-Z; moreso for his delievery and Nas for the lyrical content. | |
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2pac was one fo the few rappers who's voice actually was more important than the beat or music itself. I don't know if I would say he was the best MC but there was something different about him that I haven't found in a rapper since his passing. Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance
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What makes 'Pac "all that" is that he was able to convey emotions way better than most. He could make you laugh, cry, feel happy or sad or could have you ready to fight. He was able to take other people's experience, internalize them, making them his own and then put it to music and make the rest of the world feel him. I think the only thing that keeps people from really appreciating 'Pac is that they get too caught up in the hype that surrounded him in the media. They don't know how to see through all of that. It's similar to people denying Prince's talents as a musician because of all his erratic behavior throughtout the year. And at the same time, one must understand how both of these two men's childhood lives and environments influenced their behavior and later their music. "I am American. I am the part you won't recognize. But get used to me. Black confident, cocky. MY name- not yours. MY religion - not yours! MY goals, my OWN. Get used to me." Muhammad Ali | |
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Professor Michael Eric Dyson gave a lecture a few weeks ago on 2Pac and Marvin Gaye. Missed it! (Dayum!) but I heard it was tight! He's written about 2Pac and Marvin and about hip-hop in general:
Widely published author, scholar and noted media commentator Michael Eric Dyson calls singer Marvin Gaye a "flawed genius" in his recent book, Mercy, Mercy Me: The Art, Loves and Demons of Marvin Gaye . The same can also be said of rapper Tupac Shakur. Dyson sees both artists' lives as symbolic of many struggles, but, in particular, those of the African-American male. In his books, Dyson employs a new genre of scholarship, which he terms "bio-criticism," the fusion of social and cultural criticism and biographical analysis.
His 2001 book on Shakur, Hollar if You Hear Me: Searching for Tupac Shakur , was not a traditional biography about the "gangsta" rapper; rather, Dyson wrote a series of essays on family relations, street violence, education, and religion to explore Shakur's world. As he does in his teaching, Dyson's writings on Shakur and Gaye focus on race, religion, popular culture and contemporary issues facing the African-American community. | |
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Veli said: What makes 'Pac "all that" is that he was able to convey emotions way better than most. He could make you laugh, cry, feel happy or sad or could have you ready to fight. He was able to take other people's experience, internalize them, making them his own and then put it to music and make the rest of the world feel him. I think the only thing that keeps people from really appreciating 'Pac is that they get too caught up in the hype that surrounded him in the media. They don't know how to see through all of that. It's similar to people denying Prince's talents as a musician because of all his erratic behavior throughtout the year. And at the same time, one must understand how both of these two men's childhood lives and environments influenced their behavior and later their music.
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Veli said: What makes 'Pac "all that" is that he was able to convey emotions way better than most. He could make you laugh, cry, feel happy or sad or could have you ready to fight. He was able to take other people's experience, internalize them, making them his own and then put it to music and make the rest of the world feel him. I think the only thing that keeps people from really appreciating 'Pac is that they get too caught up in the hype that surrounded him in the media. They don't know how to see through all of that. It's similar to people denying Prince's talents as a musician because of all his erratic behavior throughtout the year. And at the same time, one must understand how both of these two men's childhood lives and environments influenced their behavior and later their music.
Pac was the last rapper i really admired when he died I was done with rap, cause it would never be the same... | |
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Theres been so much overblown hype over Tupac that it can be hard to really appreciate how good he was. My memories of listening to 2pacalypse for the first time back in 91 have kind of cemented my opinion of him as one of the best, regardless of all the sensationalism over him that followed in the mid to late 90s. | |
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no.
 Space for sale... | |
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Yea, he was. And FINE too...    I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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Hell no! Whenever someone dies, people try to make them all that whether they were or not. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Hell no! Whenever someone dies, people try to make them all that whether they were or not.
Biggie died and he doesn't get the hype that Pac does...  | |
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if Pac would have died from a flu, in his sleep, he wouldn't have been such a hype.....as a matter of fact, I doubt it whether he would still have a career....maybe he would be playing dice with P Ditty on Washington Sq..... | |
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CalhounSq said: Yea, he was. And FINE too...
and the Church will say...AMENNNNN!! | |
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It's a shame he got so wrapped up in the East Coast/West Coast bullshit, because it overshadowed a lot of the latter part of his career. He sort of became a puppet for Shug's games and did a lot of stupid things in the last few years before he died. What that did for some people was take the focus off his music. When he didn't dwell on some of the typical hip-hop braggadocia, his words could actually be very moving. Even early songs like Brenda's Got a Baby were very moving, and Changes to this day, still makes me cry. | |
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Gotta love 2Pac, he was one of the greats. I don't think it is helpful to starting arguing about who was "best" though - 2Pac was one of a kind and a hugely talented guy, whether or not he was "the best" scarcely matters, it's just a part of the post-2Pac hype that really doesn't do the man justice. His work is most interesting for both the highs and lows (and there were plenty of lows) - acting like he was the second coming of Christ is just stupid.
Personally, Chuck D is probably my favourite rapper of all time, for his longevity, his integrity and his thought-provoking approach to the rapgame. Other favourites include Common, Talib Kweli etc. That said, 2Pac is never ever off my iPod. Thought the Marvin Gaye comment was spot-on by the way. [Edited 10/14/04 6:19am] | |
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dancerella said: Before you guys get ready to jump down my throat, i'm asking a serious question. As someone who doesn't know much about rap beyond the 80's, was he really the best MC ever? Personally I think melle Mel is!
People who think he was probably never heard of Rakim or Chuck D (as pathetic as that may seem...) Hell, Ice Cube or any member of NWA pisses all over 2Pac (yes even Dr. Dre when he was still hungry...) 2pac was just a roadie who released just one album worth listening to ("Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.) and it wasn't even that good... Neversin. O(+>NIИ<+)O
“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?” - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche | |
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Tupac was a true artist, something rare in hip hop.
One of the reasons he was such a prolific writer was because he had so much to say. I truly respected that. Whether you like the songs or not, there was at least a message there, which is much more than I can say for today's popular rappers. BTW, my vote for greatest MC of all time is a toss up between Rakim and Chuck D.  | |
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Neversin said: dancerella said: Before you guys get ready to jump down my throat, i'm asking a serious question. As someone who doesn't know much about rap beyond the 80's, was he really the best MC ever? Personally I think melle Mel is!
People who think he was probably never heard of Rakim or Chuck D (as pathetic as that may seem...) Hell, Ice Cube or any member of NWA pisses all over 2Pac (yes even Dr. Dre when he was still hungry...) 2pac was just a roadie who released just one album worth listening to ("Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.) and it wasn't even that good... Neversin. You need to listen to the Machiaveli album (specifically Me & My Girlfriend").
Oh, and Dr. Dre is not a rapper, he's a producer. Cats were writing that dudes' rhymes for him when he was with N.W.A. | |
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Neversin said: dancerella said: Before you guys get ready to jump down my throat, i'm asking a serious question. As someone who doesn't know much about rap beyond the 80's, was he really the best MC ever? Personally I think melle Mel is!
People who think he was probably never heard of Rakim or Chuck D (as pathetic as that may seem...) Hell, Ice Cube or any member of NWA pisses all over 2Pac (yes even Dr. Dre when he was still hungry...) 2pac was just a roadie who released just one album worth listening to ("Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.) and it wasn't even that good... Neversin. Dr. Dre never wrote his rhymes. When he was with N.W.A. it was always Ren, Cube or The D.O.C. that wrote his lyrics. After N.W.A., it was Snoop, The D.O.C. and RBX writing for him. Dre is strictly a producer, so lyrically he doesn't count. | |
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I would say Tupac was one of the best. Sure, he ain't no Rakim, but he had it over guys like that in other ways. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: You need to listen to the Machiaveli album (specifically Me & My Girlfriend").
I've heard it and it was crap, not even slightly impressive... (I do listen to music to make up my mind about it, you know... I'm not some 2Pac basher who dislikes him because he's 2Pac...) 2Pac was overrated... I've yet to hear anything impressive by that guy, he wasn't even good in DU... I just don't get what people hear in this guy's raps... But hey, people listen to Eminem as if he's the second coming and praise him for the annoying and not-even-clever crap he makes... So... IMO 2Pac was just boring and signaled the "death of Hip Hop"... Oh, and Dr. Dre is not a rapper, he's a producer. Cats were writing that dudes' rhymes for him when he was with N.W.A.
Ok my bad... Maybe not the better MC but definitely the better rapper even though he didn't write his lyrics... Neversin. O(+>NIИ<+)O
“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?” - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche | |
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abierman said: if Pac would have died from a flu, in his sleep, he wouldn't have been such a hype.....as a matter of fact, I doubt it whether he would still have a career....maybe he would be playing dice with P Ditty on Washington Sq.....
If he died (which he did) he wouldn't be doing ANY of those things, don't you think? I am MrVictor.... | |
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xpsiter said: abierman said: if Pac would have died from a flu, in his sleep, he wouldn't have been such a hype.....as a matter of fact, I doubt it whether he would still have a career....maybe he would be playing dice with P Ditty on Washington Sq.....
If he died (which he did) he wouldn't be doing ANY of those things, don't you think? Pac would be making movies if he was still alive....I think he was a very good poet. | |
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Neversin said: OdysseyMiles said: You need to listen to the Machiaveli album (specifically Me & My Girlfriend").
I've heard it and it was crap, not even slightly impressive... (I do listen to music to make up my mind about it, you know... I'm not some 2Pac basher who dislikes him because he's 2Pac...) 2Pac was overrated... I've yet to hear anything impressive by that guy, he wasn't even good in DU... I just don't get what people hear in this guy's raps... But hey, people listen to Eminem as if he's the second coming and praise him for the annoying and not-even-clever crap he makes... So... IMO 2Pac was just boring and signaled the "death of Hip Hop"... The production of the album aint much but what makes the Makaveli album great are Pac's strong and prophetic messages and his realness. He was really speakin his mind on the album. Despite "Toss It Up" and "To Live And Die In LA", the album really wasn't meant for mainstream appeal. Listen to the words on White Man's World, Hold Ya Head, Krazy, and Hail Mary. And "Blasphemsy", this song would relate to stuff like priests touching on lil boys and backsliders: "Why you got these kids minds, thinkin that they evil / while the preacher bein richer you say honor God's people" On "Against All Odds", he mentions the names of people who were in involved in his 1994 shooting (strangely, he doesn't mention Biggie's name on it) and speaks on rappers that ain't being real. I don't think the album was mixed down probably cause his extra vocals made it sound like he was rappin off beat. On any other album, extra vocals are in synch with each other. But then again, the album mostly finish before Pac died, but not entirely as far as mixing goes. But the Makaveli album is like a blueprint - its album that most rappers wish they could make. Onion Juice appears courtesy of Streethop.com | |
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xpsiter said: abierman said: if Pac would have died from a flu, in his sleep, he wouldn't have been such a hype.....as a matter of fact, I doubt it whether he would still have a career....maybe he would be playing dice with P Ditty on Washington Sq.....
If he died (which he did) he wouldn't be doing ANY of those things, don't you think? you're right, I wanted to say: he would probably do that if he was still alive.... | |
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OnionJuice said: The production of the album aint much but what makes the Makaveli album great are Pac's strong and prophetic messages and his realness.
If that appeals to you then enjoy it... I'm just not one who likes to listen to rehashed messages and so called witty and clever raps of stuff people already know about or would know about if one would just use their brain... (like the example you made of priests touching on lil boys and backsliders... That's not exactly something new or eye opening now is it?) Neversin. O(+>NIИ<+)O
“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?” - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche | |
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I think 2Pac was one of the greatest partially because he seemed so inspired. It just seemed to come out of him so naturally, and while I didn't like everything he said, it all had purpose. It is great to see people doing what they were meant to do, and enjoying it.
His technique might not have been the best or the most varied, but he had a great voice and an incredibly funky flow. They say hip hop is a reflection of what goes on in real life, but I think he's one of the last rappers for whom that was true. Now it's just product and show biz just like other music. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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No one can really state that anyone is the GREATEST MC of all time but I do have 2 say that 2Pac was & always will be my favorite rapper, that new film of his is AMAZING, some incredible editing, a really moving story. | |
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