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PrintableMaybe that is why Lauryn Hill had a "breakdown" -- because she realized that she wasn't as genius as people were making her out to be. My friend (she analyzes situations as much as I do) even said, waaaay before Lauryn Hill did her unplug album, it's all going to come out in the open that Lauryn Hill isn't as talented as people make her out to be and when she realizes that she isn't as talented as, say, the people she is copying, then she'll be seen as a fraud and she'll be ashamed. And she was "ashamed." She went and tried to do her "own thing" with that unplugged album and it went nowhere. So she has to be sitting somewhere thinking, "Am I really a genius?" [/quote]
Oh, PEASANT! We have the SAME brain! I attributed this to Lhill's break down, too-- it's because one morning she woke up and probably thought, "My goodness! In the magazines, people are writing about me being a genius and all, but I am no genius. All I am is a copy cat with connections (santana, marleys); hmmm what can I do? A HA, learn guitar, cut of my dreads!" Well, she ran out of songs! the songs from Miseducation came from some creative spurt brought on by heartbreak. I am sick of frauds. That goes for you to Dre3000 (although you are cute and oh what a body you have!) "The poets are demanding their pay..."
"I'm a radio I'm a country station I'm a little bit corny I'm a wildwood flower..." | |
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dancerella said:[quote] I agree. I think hip hop is pretty much completely screwed. It showed such promise but was promptly flushed down the shitter with hoochies, gangs, getting shot 9 times = cool, drugs, bitches, etc.
Tell me about it. How many times can you possibly rap about the same tired old shit. There has always been rap music along those lines (Too $hort, Schoolly D), and always been rap music NOT along those lines (Native Tongues). There are choices out there! Don't get mad if something more vulgar happens to be popular! | |
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Wow, i'm surprised to see so many people agree. For the most part I don't listen to R&B any more with the acceptions of the people I mentioned before. Nowadays I listen to 80's pop, electro and old skool rock and funk! R&B is a joke to me and why do they sing about the same old tired subjects? how many times can you sing "oh baby, please don't leave me", without wanting to vomit? How do you guys rate Ashanti? because to me that girl has zero talent! | |
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Why are you people being so hard on Lauryn Hill? Sure maybe her breakdown had something to do with media pressure but come on, surely you don't think she's a fraud. Lauryn is definitely in another league from her R&B contemporaries. Her lyrical flow is awesome. Her "Unplugged" was a hard sell to begin with and the spoken word diatribes didn't help. When she comes back out I predict she'll blow many people away. There's definitely a difference between Lauryn Hill being labeled a genius then Alicia Keys, no matter how unfounded.
As for the piano angle and Alicia Keys, I agree totally. I like Alicia and have both her albums, but she has YET to fulfill the potential that has been heaped upon her. She's no Tori Amos, who really IS a prodigy who comes up with original material. |
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I think its ridiculous to state that an entire genre of music is tired. My answer: NO, it is not. Its changing. R&B is always changing; it always has. I think that for certain age groups, it is the change that is bothersome. Record companies pretty much stop marketing to anyone over 25, yet their data shows that the over 25 age group buys the most music. Yes, its true. The reason that the over 25 age group is the least marketed to is because they are less likely to give in to marketing. People over 25 usually have already decided exactly what and who they like and what they are willing to buy. Its much harder to sell this crowd on a new artist. Since the record industry thrives on suckering new artists into bad deals, its MANDATORY that they be able to sell these artists at all costs. They market to the most gullible audience with the most disposable income and the most impulse buying tendencies - teen agers. In this day and age where ageism is at an all time high, teens want to see teens doing music, so they sell them pretty, untrained performers with producer-based prepackaged music or they just let them suck and market them as a sarcastic band with a care-not-for-the-world attitude, dress them in a line of clothes they can sell at GAP, Old Navy or GAP's subsidiary store Hot Topic and teens eat it up. They buy the records, the posters, the t-shirts, the key rings, etc. Its all about merchandising. The over 25 crowd just doesn't blow enough money on "stuff" for record labels to care - except when a major "old school" artist is on tour. Then they pretend to give a shit...a little. | |
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 OK
Here we go Take it back Let's get it funky I'm a R&B junkie | |
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BlaqueKnight is tha truuth bebe! | |
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dancerella said: really, it's become unimaginative and boring with the accpetions of a few artists like.....
Alicia Keys Mary J. Blige Van Hunt Destiny's Child and a few more that i'm sure i'm leaving out. What are your thoughts? van hunt isn't r&b. he's straight up soul and funk. he's cool. mary j. blige was the r&b queen, but not anymore. she's had her time. destiny's child is cool. not brilliant, but good to have around. alicia keys is alright too. i thought she'd make it big time. she shows no progression though. r&b is a bit tiring i agree, but some artists do keep it interesting though. it ain't dead yet. don't need no reefer, don't need cocaine
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dancerella said:[quote] And Mary tries, but I don't think she's as good a vocalist as you think she is. She really has trouble sometimes.
I hear what you're saying about mary as far as her vocal skills go but sometimes passion means more to me than the voice alone. To each his own, it's all good. Thats EXACTLY how I feel about Mary J and what folks miss about her. I will neva count on her to bring a tour-de-force vocal pre4mance(ala Chaka, Aretha, Mariah and etc). Even she herself eknowledged many times that she's not a REAL vocalist. But like Billie Holiday, Nina Simone & Sade b4 her, she's a stylist. An artists who's willing & able to touch on the right sensitive nerves without bending or hitting the right notes. Shit, Lady Day was considered the MOST IMPORTANT lady in Jazz even tho she was in rivaly with vocalists who were SUPERIOR than her vocally(Sarah Vaughan & Ella) while she only has over an octave to her credit. Shouldn't that tell you something? People think with the "if you can get your point across without trying hard or proving yourself then do it" logic and thats why I guess Billie is the most important lady in jazz. The reason why I brought up Billie is to point out Mary's talent and what folks overlook about her(surely NOT to compare those ladies at all, tho). And hell, if she can get Chaka, Nina Simone, Stevie & Aretha's props then surely she can get mine. Mary can get her point across without being a singer's singer and not to mention she has a good message in her music. I sho as hell won't mind my kids listening to her than B2K, Ashanti or the rest of the fools out-there. Also, it really amuses me how folks dismiss her with the "she's overrated" treatment. She has been doing this for 15 years and she only got her dues 3 years ago, why not give the bitch her credit already? | |
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Y'all are some hard people to please. I hope you weren't in the crowd in the early 90's who were crying for "real" musicians playing "real" music to come back. Let me talk about that "crowd" for a minute.
When Brand New Heavies came along, that crowd didn't buy their records, and The Crowd called them gimmicky for copping a 70's sound. Jamiroquai drops their first 2 albums, and The Crowd called them Stevie Wonder/EWF wannabes notwithstanding the nice, listenable grooves they were churning out. D'Angelo, Maxwell, Badu and Jill Scott come along, and The Crowd digs them all right, but criticizes them for not being prolific enough. In the interim, Remy Shand, Res, Donnie, Dwele, Rashaan Patterson, Lewis Taylor and others come along and The Crowd doesn't pay attention, doesn't buy their records or take any initiative to support these artists. Or The Crowd dismisses them as wannabe Marvins, Stevies, Princes, etc. Artists like india.arie (whom I don't really dig personally) win handfuls of Grammys, but don't sell in large proportions a la Beyonce. The Crowd doesn't buy the records. Artists like Ledisi burble under the surface and The Crowd doesn't pay attention. Legends like Ray Charles and Al Green release records and many in The Crowd don't buy them. But listen to the radio and watch video channels, and on the basis of Mary J. Blige, Beyonce, Mariah, Usher et al., The Crowd proclaims R&B dead and tired. I'm not calling out anyone on this board, I am criticizing a mindset. We all whined about real music coming back to R&B. and real musicians come along to give us what we claim we want, and we don't buy their records because we don't take time to find out about them or dismiss them as copycats. But we can say R&B is dead, right? Guess who killed it? Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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Most modern R&B artists today are as processed and formulaic (sp?) as 'pop' acts are. Not only is it tired, it's slipped into a coma.  |
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Whew! Namepeace just shut this thread DOWN!!!  | |
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[quote]r&b is a bit tiring i agree, but some artists do keep it interesting though. it ain't dead yet.
You know what? I don't really consider Kelis R&B but I know most people do and i would say she is probably the most interesting R&B artist out there. She takes risks with her style and sound like no one else. Most of the artists out there are too concerned with records sales, to really do something different and as a result of that Kelis doesn't really sell that many records but that's the price you pay for staying true to your art! | |
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"Goodies" is THE most brilliant non-dirty dirty song ever! |
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[quote]Goodies" is THE most brilliant non-dirty dirty song ever!
Goodies, is very catchy but i wonder if she will have longevity... | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Whew! Namepeace just shut this thread DOWN!!!
'preciate ya! 
I used to say the same things at times, but then I decided that I needed to hear some new music. I am glad I gave these newbies a chance and I hope some of my fellow orgers will too. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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btw, Mary J. Blige is dope | |
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[quote]btw, Mary J. Blige is dope
Mary J. is the bomb! I love that fact that her voice is a lot edgier than most R&B artists that usually have slick, "perfect" voices. Mary gets down! I would love to see her do a rock song one day. I think she has the voice for it. What do you guys think of Ashanti?? | |
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A funny litlle sidenote about Ciara. My nephew recorded a TRL she performed on and she was wearing those annoying lowrider jeans that's popular with the girls nowadays and she kept showing major butt crack because she had too much back for them. She had to constantly tug at her jeans. I suspect that since the show was live they couldn't fuzz it out. Fashion faux pas of the week goes to Ciara. Looks like she couldn't keep some of her goodies in the jar. |
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dancerella said:[quote] btw, Mary J. Blige is dope
Mary J. is the bomb! I love that fact that her voice is a lot edgier than most R&B artists that usually have slick, "perfect" voices. Mary gets down! I would love to see her do a rock song one day. I think she has the voice for it. What do you guys think of Ashanti?? I realize more and more that I love her songs, lyrics, production more than the actual voice.  | |
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dancerella said:[quote] I would love to see her do a rock song one day. I think she has the voice for it.
She already did. "Rock Steady" an outtake from No More Drama featuring Lenny Kravits & Jay Z. Rock but naturaly hip-hop oriented. | |
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namepeace said: Y'all are some hard people to please. I hope you weren't in the crowd in the early 90's who were crying for "real" musicians playing "real" music to come back. Let me talk about that "crowd" for a minute.
When Brand New Heavies came along, that crowd didn't buy their records, and The Crowd called them gimmicky for copping a 70's sound. Jamiroquai drops their first 2 albums, and The Crowd called them Stevie Wonder/EWF wannabes notwithstanding the nice, listenable grooves they were churning out. D'Angelo, Maxwell, Badu and Jill Scott come along, and The Crowd digs them all right, but criticizes them for not being prolific enough. In the interim, Remy Shand, Res, Donnie, Dwele, Rashaan Patterson, Lewis Taylor and others come along and The Crowd doesn't pay attention, doesn't buy their records or take any initiative to support these artists. Or The Crowd dismisses them as wannabe Marvins, Stevies, Princes, etc. Artists like india.arie (whom I don't really dig personally) win handfuls of Grammys, but don't sell in large proportions a la Beyonce. The Crowd doesn't buy the records. Artists like Ledisi burble under the surface and The Crowd doesn't pay attention. Legends like Ray Charles and Al Green release records and many in The Crowd don't buy them. But listen to the radio and watch video channels, and on the basis of Mary J. Blige, Beyonce, Mariah, Usher et al., The Crowd proclaims R&B dead and tired. I'm not calling out anyone on this board, I am criticizing a mindset. We all whined about real music coming back to R&B. and real musicians come along to give us what we claim we want, and we don't buy their records because we don't take time to find out about them or dismiss them as copycats. But we can say R&B is dead, right? Guess who killed it? my 2 cents: first off, to me, artist like d'angelo, erykah badu, jill scott, india arie et al are soul artists. not r&b artists. that's a big difference. secondly, i think today's r&b is nothing more than popular black music (black pop). and popular music in general is really nothing more than music based on and promoted via a successful formula to win over the masses. that formula is basicly: creating catchy, easy-to- digest music performed by stereotypical characters. and i think there's nothing wrong with that. especially when every now and then the industry switches up that formula a little. but the thing is: sometimes the industry sticks too long to one formula. and i believe that's the problem with today's r&b. we keep getting more of the same over and over again. the genre is stuck in a slump, which happens every now and then. and the fact that it keeps on getting a lot of airplay creates an overkill for me. i'm not fed up with popular music; it's been this way for years on end. i don't know it any other way. and there's still so much "unpopular" music to feed on. you know, that harder-to-digest shit you really have to dive into. that's what i dig the most. but you have to want to do that. you have to love music as an artform, instead of just liking it for the sake of having something playing in the background or having something to move your ass to for a minute (which is cool too imo). don't need no reefer, don't need cocaine
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[quote]I realize more and more that I love her songs, lyrics, production more than the actual voice
Really? Oh man, I love her voice! I love that it's not perfect. I have a thing for unusual voices. | |
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purpleone said: my 2 cents: first off, to me, artist like d'angelo, erykah badu, jill scott, india arie et al are soul artists. not r&b artists. that's a big difference.  That's sorta what I was thinking. Namepeace still has a point. | |
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dancerella said:[quote] btw, Mary J. Blige is dope
Mary J. is the bomb! I love that fact that her voice is a lot edgier than most R&B artists that usually have slick, "perfect" voices. Mary gets down! I would love to see her do a rock song one day. I think she has the voice for it. What do you guys think of Ashanti?? I'm gonna duck right now but I am a fan of Ashanti. I guess it's the ghetto princess thing. She's like the pretty good girl in the hood that's just a touch enough streetwise to know what she's talking about. I admit it, I've fallen for it. Her last cd was my summer album. Heavily sampled but by that time I was already a fan. Songs from her first album like "Rescue Me" and "It's Over" really won me over. That i borrowed from my friend, who ironically doesn't care for Ashanti anymore. |
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purpleone said: first off, to me, artist like d'angelo, erykah badu, jill scott, india arie et al are soul artists. not r&b artists. that's a big difference.
Fair point. Time was soul and R&B were one in the same. Now they're distinct. Kinda like rap and hip-hop. secondly, i think today's r&b is nothing more than popular black music (black pop). and
popular music in general is really nothing more than music based on and promoted via a successful formula to win over the masses. that formula is basicly: creating catchy, easy-to- digest music performed by stereotypical characters. and i think there's nothing wrong with that. especially when every now and then the industry switches up that formula a little. but the thing is: sometimes the industry sticks too long to one formula. and i believe that's the problem with today's r&b. we keep getting more of the same over and over again. the genre is stuck in a slump, which happens every now and then. and the fact that it keeps on getting a lot of airplay creates an overkill for me. i'm not fed up with popular music; it's been this way for years on end. i don't know it any other way. and there's still so much "unpopular" music to feed on. you know, that harder-to-digest shit you really have to dive into. that's what i dig the most. but you have to want to do that. you have to love music as an artform, instead of just liking it for the sake of having something playing in the background or having something to move your ass to for a minute (which is cool too imo). Very good points. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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CynicKill said:[quote] dancerella said: btw, Mary J. Blige is dope
Mary J. is the bomb! I love that fact that her voice is a lot edgier than most R&B artists that usually have slick, "perfect" voices. Mary gets down! I would love to see her do a rock song one day. I think she has the voice for it. What do you guys think of Ashanti?? I'm gonna duck right now but I am a fan of Ashanti. I guess it's the ghetto princess thing. She's like the pretty good girl in the hood that's just a touch enough streetwise to know what she's talking about. I admit it, I've fallen for it. Her last cd was my summer album. Heavily sampled but by that time I was already a fan. Songs from her first album like "Rescue Me" and "It's Over" really won me over. That i borrowed from my friend, who ironically doesn't care for Ashanti anymore. I was given a promo of the last Ashanti and I actually did listen to it alot at the time a year ago, but I recently saw sheet music for "Rain On Me" and just about hurled, so I guess I don't like her anymore. | |
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Rythm and Bullshit  | |
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CinisterCee said: purpleone said: my 2 cents: first off, to me, artist like d'angelo, erykah badu, jill scott, india arie et al are soul artists. not r&b artists. that's a big difference. That's sorta what I was thinking. Namepeace still has a point.you mean with the fact that people are hard to please/never satisfied? he's somewhat right i guess. i never heard people were anxious at hearing live instrumentation again though. does the popconsumer really care about that? i wouldn't think so. the average popconsumer wouldn't even be able to seperate a piano sound from a guitar sound if you'd ask him; they're just sounds to them. why would they care if something is played live or not? they're just looking for some form of entertainment. and that soul music namepeace was refering to, with live instrumentation, DID appeal to the masses at first. only later that genre got tiring, because of overkill and a soft image. AND because of the fact that it's popular to diss something when others are doing it too (same as with saying "i'm tired of the state of today's music"). don't need no reefer, don't need cocaine
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purpleone said: first off, to me, artist like d'angelo, erykah badu, jill scott, india arie et al are soul artists. not r&b artists. that's a big difference. Show me the "soul" section at Sam Goodys. For all intents and purposes, the term R&B encompasses soul, funk and rhythm and blues. They ARE different, but when you say R&B to the average person would probably include the artists you mentioned. [Edited 10/6/04 12:34pm] | |
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