I used to really like NEWS a lot!I still like it.However, I have been really engrossed in hancock,stanley clarke,weather report,miles, and return to forever lately. I listen to this stuff alld ay now and even while I sleep! I am really moved by the artistry and the bravery. I have been reading all these interviews and reviews on the internet.I want to collect all these cd's and recite every note in my head. I am truly a student of this era right now.

So,I arranged all this as a playlist on my mp3 player with Victor Wooten,Vernon Reid,and NEWS since these are "fusion" records,as well. NEWS is ok,but it juist doesn't hold up well next to these masterworks. I think "xenophobia" from the ona ep works much better. But I hear the talent in NEWS and I hear the grooves that are cool.It just seems so freaking sterile to me now. I don't get any passion from it. It's just an exercise to show that Prince can do fusion.He can,by the way,but he isn't there yet. I think if he immersed himself in these works and got back to the emotions of these works that he could do a really cool fusion album.It would be awesome,too because of teh technology in sound.

I have learned that you just can't fake this stuff.You can't go through the motions.This stuff was real.I feel the life in the music and the music is soo in the pocket. These guys clinically studied jazz in a laboratory and became jazz masters before embarking on rock and funk journeys.They bring a jazz sensibility to rock and funk.This is top shelf musicianship. And I also think there was something to be said for being "bad boys" and "outcasts" since they were only supposed to wear brown suits,be polite,and play classic jazz. I think these artists felt all that went with that.They felt the shock of fame,the flush of cash,the pride of performing as the hot ticket in front of other top musicians,the pain of being shunned by the jazz establishment and traditional jazz critics,and the hunger to create something new and prove something to those critics and to each other.These artists really lived this life. There was a huge emotional investment. Prince's NEWS is an investment in playing it safe.

Yes,I still listen to NEWS. I just now know more about what it will take for there to truly be some fusion news from the Prince camp. And,I'm also thinking that if he keeps on this path and "studies",like I mentioned,he can get there. Maybe this album could live a stronger life if it were recorded as a live album with some newer material. And throw away the gimmicky blueprint of the length of the songs and changes set up the same way on each song. The KID has the chops to do this.He really does. It just isn't something that anyone can do half-assed.

I don't mean this to sound as critical as it probably does,but just live the music I'm talking about for a week or 2 and you will see what I'm talking about. It really has opened my mind some.I feel more creative because of this.I feel very positive in my outlook. I'm struttin',baby.

I agree. As a jazz fan, it seems to me that, so far, Prince's music is more adventurous when he's putting out his usual albums, and he's at his least imaginative when he's purposely trying to do "adventurous instrumental music" like Xpectation or NEWS... I certainly don't fault him for trying; I love that he's always expanding his horizons, always growing and should continue...But that doesn't make what he's doing really"jazz" anyway; it's almost more like instrumental groove- jamming (and it's true that Prince himself has never claimed that any of these albums were actually jazz-- even if that was what inspired them...He just refers to it as " new directions" in music --- though you might arguably call it some type of "fusion-inspired music" )...

It is true that Prince is a visionary artist and often plays with more imagination and conviction than many jazz players, that's what made people like Miles want to hang with him in the first place, but that does not make NEWS a "jazz" album...nowadays, , the term "Jazz" seems to have become a convenient shorthand for anybody playing instrumental music (and I ain't even gonna get into the stuff on so-called "Smooth -jazz" radio)...the word starts to get really fuzzy now...

But the term "Jazz", In its formal sense, it connotates musicians who have spent years playing and digesting a tradition that extends from early blues to the more structured improvisation of W. C. Handy, Buddy Bolden and Louis Armstrong, all the way up through to Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Wayne Shorter and beyond...you couldn't just start playing Bebop ... you had to start from the beginning and learn all those forms... even with fusion, there was still a tradition you had to learn...and Prince, although he may have been influenced by some of these artists, has never studied that jazz tradition. There's so much harmonic and compositional ground he has not yet covered. It's so much more than just jamming on some grooves... Like you said, Listen to composition on something like Weather report's album "Heavy Weather" for example, then listen to News, and you'll see the difference...

That said, I certainly hope Prince continues to expand his boundaries....
Because even though they weren't jazz players, artists like Hendrix, Sly Stone, James Brown, Santana, Zappa, and Stevie inspired Fusion in the first place...Miles, Herbie, John Mclaughlin, Tony Williams considered them all great artists, and wanted to play with them, and expand their boundaries, as well as learning from the past...

...and ultimately, none of the true innovators in music -- be it Miles, Prince, Herbie, Sly, Zappa etc.--want to be bound by labels anyway ...Herbie and Miles did not want to be labeled as just great Jazz players, any more than Hendrix wanted to be labeled as a great "Rock star"...they want to be great Musicians ultimately, open to all experiences...



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[Edited 10/4/04 0:54am]

paligap said:

Fine schoolin' Pali



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

Well said Paligap...couldn't have said it better myself. Hey Rockwilder...while you're listening to the jazz/fusion artists...check out the Pat Metheny Group. You'll love it.

SteamForest said:

Yeah,I was just looking at some of those cd's.I think I will.I'm gonna get some Jean Luc Ponty,Mclaughlin,DiMeola,and so forth.I just find this music so exciting.

Man,I would have loved for Jimi to work with some of these cats!Damn,we all missed that one. If only Prince would invite them to Paisley to work with him.That could be the next best thing.

paligap said:

Very well said!I agree.I just wish I hadn't waited so long to get into this stuff.I had listened to some stuff years ago and liked it,but this is a rediscovery of experiences of the past and a journey farther into the unknown.This music really has me pumped.

Man,I rreally would like to spend some time with Stanley Clarke.He's like a Jimi on the bass. He is a bass master and is so knowledgeable and powerful in his technique.It's all highbrow and hard work,but then he brings it down low to the street without compromising depth. Incredible!There are so many questions I'd have for him and I'd want to lay hands on those basses he owns.

I think all of these guys are stellar.They blow me away.They are so badass yet,so tasteful.They should make kids listen to these artists in schools. If I ever have kids,they will get a huge dosage of my kinda' music at home.

Guys,thanks for all the suggestions because I really pay attention.I am a lifelong student of music and I will always be eager to check out sounds. Food and music are my main expenses.Well, a little grey goose and German beer,also.So,I usually have a little cash to get cd's.They have just gotta stop making vegetarian food so damned expensive!!!