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what's the deal with the whole janet v. madonna? it seems like only madonna fans feel the need to compare the two. i mean, its really rare that janet jackson fans drag madonna into a conversation. its even more rare that they feel the need to belittle madonna's career in order to make janet's look better. yet, so many madonna fans seem to feel as though in order to boost up madonna's image they have to insult janet. its almost like some kind of inferiority complex among madonna fans.  | |
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Oh it's all in good fun. I used to be a huge Janet fan. And I still buy her albums. She's just made herself an easy target in recent years. | |
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GangstaFam said: Oh it's all in good fun. I used to be a huge Janet fan. And I still buy her albums. She's just made herself an easy target in recent years.
i know its in fun in these cases (usually) but in "the real world" peeps are really serious. i worked at a place once where the madonna fags didn't like the janet fags. for real. this is adult life, too. people are wierd, lol! | |
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SassyBritches said: it seems like only madonna fans feel the need to compare the two. i mean, its really rare that janet jackson fans drag madonna into a conversation. its even more rare that they feel the need to belittle madonna's career in order to make janet's look better. yet, so many madonna fans seem to feel as though in order to boost up madonna's image they have to insult janet. its almost like some kind of inferiority complex among madonna fans.
It makes me want to side with Janet, and I'm not even really a fan of hers.  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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SassyBritches said: it seems like only madonna fans feel the need to compare the two. i mean, its really rare that janet jackson fans drag madonna into a conversation. its even more rare that they feel the need to belittle madonna's career in order to make janet's look better. yet, so many madonna fans seem to feel as though in order to boost up madonna's image they have to insult janet. its almost like some kind of inferiority complex among madonna fans.
That's funny, cuz I've noticed fans of both putting down the other, mostly around the time of janet.. | |
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A lot of Madonna fans feel the need to proclaim her material as ART (cue drumroll), and so they put down other pop stars who they feel produce "inferior/candy floss/fluff" material. Janet's a popular target because she's eclipsed Madonna in popularity several times throughout their careers. | |
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VoicesCarry said: A lot of Madonna fans feel the need to proclaim her material as ART (cue drumroll), and so they put down other pop stars who they feel produce "inferior/candy floss/fluff" material. Janet's a popular target because she's eclipsed Madonna in popularity several times throughout their careers.
See...spoken like a true Janet fan. It comes from both sides. | |
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SassyBritches said: it seems like only madonna fans feel the need to compare the two. i mean, its really rare that janet jackson fans drag madonna into a conversation. its even more rare that they feel the need to belittle madonna's career in order to make janet's look better. yet, so many madonna fans seem to feel as though in order to boost up madonna's image they have to insult janet. its almost like some kind of inferiority complex among madonna fans.
I used to be a member of both of their biggest mailing lists (before the Madonna one ended, and they kicked me off of the Janet one). On the Madonna list, it was a done deal, not even a matter of debate. Madonna is superior, and while Janet can be good, she's no Madonna. There were very few arguments about her merits. Most enjoyed her, but felt no need in pitting the two against one another. On the Janet list, it was always a very ugly battle, with Janet fans constantly bringing up how awful and slutty Madonna is, being completely hypocritical about it. The JANET fans were the ones with the inferiority complex. "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: VoicesCarry said: A lot of Madonna fans feel the need to proclaim her material as ART (cue drumroll), and so they put down other pop stars who they feel produce "inferior/candy floss/fluff" material. Janet's a popular target because she's eclipsed Madonna in popularity several times throughout their careers.
See...spoken like a true Janet fan. It comes from both sides. Dude, I'm a huge Madonna fan too. Janet's not the one whose material gets triumphed as high art every 5 seconds. [Edited 9/23/04 15:14pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: RipHer2Shreds said: See...spoken like a true Janet fan. It comes from both sides. Dude, I'm a huge Madonna fan too. Janet's not the one whose material gets triumphed as high art every 5 seconds. [Edited 9/23/04 15:14pm] why would it?  "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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Tessa said: VoicesCarry said: Dude, I'm a huge Madonna fan too. Janet's not the one whose material gets triumphed as high art every 5 seconds. [Edited 9/23/04 15:14pm] why would it? I agree...why would it? However, I think that therein lies that reason that "so many madonna fans seem to feel as though in order to boost up madonna's image they have to insult janet" Because Madonna's material isn't that much different, even though we all like to pretend it really is. [Edited 9/23/04 15:19pm] | |
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I used to be a member of both of their biggest mailing lists (before the Madonna one ended, and they kicked me off of the Janet one).
On the Madonna list, it was a done deal, not even a matter of debate. Madonna is superior, and while Janet can be good, she's no Madonna. There were very few arguments about her merits. Most enjoyed her, but felt no need in pitting the two against one another. On the Janet list, it was always a very ugly battle, with Janet fans constantly bringing up how awful and slutty Madonna is, being completely hypocritical about it. The JANET fans were the ones with the inferiority complex.[/quote] HOLD UP A SEC!!!!!let me set u straight about the janet fam!people used 2 come there and cause COMMOTION about madonna and we always insulted them about madonna.and since the message board is down we have sheltered in lenny kravitz place.ANYWAYS we didnt say madonna was slutty and awful so u should set ur facts straight on what goes on there thanx    omg i feel better | |
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VoicesCarry said: Tessa said: why would it? I agree...why would it? However, I think that therein lies that reason that "so many madonna fans seem to feel as though in order to boost up madonna's image they have to insult janet" Because Madonna's material isn't that much different, even though we all like to pretend it really is. [Edited 9/23/04 15:19pm] see my previous post, contrasting the two online fan-bases. but, generally, when it's a pop rivals vs. each other converstaion, i agree. seems pointless to put one down to boost the other. when i put one down, it's never in favor of another. it's just to put them down, even if i do like them "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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ABeautifulOne said: HOLD UP A SEC!!!!!let me set u straight about the janet fam!people used 2 come there and cause COMMOTION about madonna and we always insulted them about madonna.and since the message board is down we have sheltered in lenny kravitz place.ANYWAYS we didnt say madonna was slutty and awful so u should set ur facts straight on what goes on there thanx omg i feel betterthat's precisely the kind of hypocrisy i was speaking of. sure, Madonna's done some slutty things to push buttons. but she never recorded any songs as slutty as even, say "If".... the only reason that even got any airplay is because nobody could really tell what she was singing. Janet fans put down Madonna for being slutty, but she never flashed her tit to the biggest television audience of the year or put anything to disc as risque as any of the thunderstorm/orgasm tracks on Janets albums. thank you for chiming in to help illustrate my point. "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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Tessa said: ABeautifulOne said: HOLD UP A SEC!!!!!let me set u straight about the janet fam!people used 2 come there and cause COMMOTION about madonna and we always insulted them about madonna.and since the message board is down we have sheltered in lenny kravitz place.ANYWAYS we didnt say madonna was slutty and awful so u should set ur facts straight on what goes on there thanx omg i feel betterthat's precisely the kind of hypocrisy i was speaking of. sure, Madonna's done some slutty things to push buttons. but she never recorded any songs as slutty as even, say "If".... the only reason that even got any airplay is because nobody could really tell what she was singing. Janet fans put down Madonna for being slutty, but she never flashed her tit to the biggest television audience of the year or put anything to disc as risque as any of the thunderstorm/orgasm tracks on Janets albums. thank you for chiming in to help illustrate my point. "Where Life Begins" "Erotica" - way more salacious and suggestive than "If" ("I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck, I"ll give you love, I'll teach you how UHHHHH" / "Let my mouth go where it wants to" etc) | |
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VoicesCarry said: Tessa said: that's precisely the kind of hypocrisy i was speaking of. sure, Madonna's done some slutty things to push buttons. but she never recorded any songs as slutty as even, say "If".... the only reason that even got any airplay is because nobody could really tell what she was singing. Janet fans put down Madonna for being slutty, but she never flashed her tit to the biggest television audience of the year or put anything to disc as risque as any of the thunderstorm/orgasm tracks on Janets albums. thank you for chiming in to help illustrate my point. "Where Life Begins" "Erotica" - way more salacious and suggestive than "If" ("I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck, I"ll give you love, I'll teach you how UHHHHH" / "Let my mouth go where it wants to" etc) that's pretty tame compared to even "If" and "If" is one of Janet's tamer examples. that's what's brilliant about Madonna.... she can totally convince you that she's being slutty because of the delivery or double-entendre without stooping to telling you she's eating the cum off the tip of your dick "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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VoicesCarry said: Tessa said: that's precisely the kind of hypocrisy i was speaking of. sure, Madonna's done some slutty things to push buttons. but she never recorded any songs as slutty as even, say "If".... the only reason that even got any airplay is because nobody could really tell what she was singing. Janet fans put down Madonna for being slutty, but she never flashed her tit to the biggest television audience of the year or put anything to disc as risque as any of the thunderstorm/orgasm tracks on Janets albums. thank you for chiming in to help illustrate my point. "Where Life Begins" "Erotica" - way more salacious and suggestive than "If" ("I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck, I"ll give you love, I'll teach you how UHHHHH" / "Let my mouth go where it wants to" etc) the real trashy slutty version of Erotica... called Erotic... was found in the Sex book: My name is Dita I'll be your mistress tonight I'll be your loved one darling Turn off the light I'll be your sorceress, your heart's magician I'm not a witch, I'm a love technician I'll be a guiding light in your darkest hour I'm gonna change your life, I'm like a poison flower Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) All over me (repeat 3 times) We could use the cage I've got a lot of rope I'm not full of rage I'm full of hope This is not a crime and you're not on trial Bend over baby, I'm gonna make you smile Light the candles, 'til they're nice and soft And when they start to drip, I'm gonna get you off Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) All over me (repeat 3 times) Give it up, do as I say Give up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... I could bring you so much pleasure Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my ... Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) All over me Only the one that hurts you can make you feel better Only the one that inflicts pain can take it away Eroti - ca I compare them cause I like both and i have nothing better to do with my time [Edited 9/23/04 15:48pm] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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Tessa said: VoicesCarry said: "Where Life Begins" "Erotica" - way more salacious and suggestive than "If" ("I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck, I"ll give you love, I'll teach you how UHHHHH" / "Let my mouth go where it wants to" etc) that's pretty tame compared to even "If" and "If" is one of Janet's tamer examples. that's what's brilliant about Madonna.... she can totally convince you that she's being slutty because of the delivery or double-entendre without stooping to telling you she's eating the cum off the tip of your dick Sittin over here Starin in your face With lust in my eyes Sure don’t give a damn and ya Don’t know that I’ve been dreamin of ya in My fantasies Never once you looked at me Don’t even realize that I’m wantin you To fulfill my needs Think what you want Let your mind free Run free to a place no one dares to How many night I’ve laid in bed excited over you I’ve closed my eyes and thought of us a hundred different ways I’ve gotten there so many times I wonder how bout you Day and night Night and day All I’ve got to say is Chorus: If I was your girl Oh the things I’d do to you I’d make you call out my name I’d ask who it belongs to If I was your woman The things I’d do to you But I’m not So I can’t Then I won’t But If I was your girl Allow me some time to play with your mind And you’ll get there again and again Close your eyes and imagine my body undressed Take your time cuz we’ve got all night, oooh You on the rise as you’re touchin my thighs and Let me know what you like If you like I’ll go Down da down down down da down down I’ll hold you in my hand and baby Your smooth and shiny Feels so good against my lips sugar I want you so bad I can Taste your love right now baby Day and night Night and day All I’ve got to say is Chorus (2x) I’ve laid in bed excited over you One hundred different way I’ve thought ya Many, maaany (day and night, night and day) Allll I got to say is Chorus (3x) VS. Erotica, romance Erotica, romance My name is Dita I'll be your mistress tonight I'd like to put you in a trance If I take you from behind Push myself into your mind When you least expect it Will you try and reject it If I'm in charge and I treat you like a child Will you let yourself go wild Let my mouth go where it wants to Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... I'd like to put you in a trance, all over Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) Erotic, erotic Once you put your hand in the flame You can never be the same There's a certain satisfaction In a little bit of pain I can see you understand I can tell that you're the same If you're afraid, well rise above I only hurt the ones I love Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... I'd like to put you in a trance, all over Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) Erotic, erotic Erotica, romance I'd like to put you in a trance Erotica, romance Put your hands all over my body I don't think you know what pain is I don't think you've gone that way I could bring you so much pleasure I'll come to you when you say I know you want me I'm not gonna hurt you I'm not gonna hurt you, just close your eyes Erotic, erotic Erotic, erotic Erotic, erotic Put your hands all over my body All over me, all over me Erotica, [give it up, give it up] romance I'd like to put you in a trance Erotica, [give it up, give it up] romance I like to do a different kind of Erotica, [give it up, give it up] romance I'd like to put you in a trance Erotica, romance Put your hands all over my body Only the one that hurts you can make you feel better Only the one that inflicts pain can take it away Yeah, Erotica is SO tame compared to "If". BTW this shit has nothing on what passes for music on the radio today. [Edited 9/23/04 15:50pm] | |
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VoicesCarry said: Your smooth and shiny Feels so good against my lips sugar I want you so bad I can Taste your love right now baby Day and night Night and day All I’ve got to say is VS. Let my mouth go where it wants to Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... I'd like to put you in a trance, all over Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) Yeah, Erotica is SO tame compared to "If". [Edited 9/23/04 15:50pm] i never said Erotica was tame, but i've left the most risque parts of both songs, and yes, Erotica is pretty tame compared to If. the difference is, madonna makes you think she's talking about physically fucking you, when it's more about a mind-fuck. janet's just fucking. [Edited 9/23/04 15:55pm] "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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Tessa said: VoicesCarry said: Your smooth and shiny Feels so good against my lips sugar I want you so bad I can Taste your love right now baby Day and night Night and day All I’ve got to say is VS. Let my mouth go where it wants to Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... I'd like to put you in a trance, all over Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) Yeah, Erotica is SO tame compared to "If". [Edited 9/23/04 15:50pm] i've left the most risque parts of both songs, and yes, Erotica is pretty tame compared to "If" Ok, then. Anyway, we're obviously never going to agree bout Janet & Madonna  | |
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Tessa said: VoicesCarry said: Your smooth and shiny Feels so good against my lips sugar I want you so bad I can Taste your love right now baby Day and night Night and day All I’ve got to say is VS. Let my mouth go where it wants to Give it up, do as I say Give it up and let me have my way I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ... I'd like to put you in a trance, all over Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body (repeat twice) Yeah, Erotica is SO tame compared to "If". [Edited 9/23/04 15:50pm] i never said Erotica was tame, but i've left the most risque parts of both songs, and yes, Erotica is pretty tame compared to If. the difference is, madonna makes you think she's talking about physically fucking you, when it's more about a mind-fuck. janet's just fucking. [Edited 9/23/04 15:55pm] bd/sm is more about the mind fuck than the physical fuck... that's probaly why Erotica was written the way it was. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: Tessa said: i never said Erotica was tame, but i've left the most risque parts of both songs, and yes, Erotica is pretty tame compared to If. the difference is, madonna makes you think she's talking about physically fucking you, when it's more about a mind-fuck. janet's just fucking. [Edited 9/23/04 15:55pm] bd/sm is more about the mind fuck than the physical fuck... that's probaly why Erotica was written the way it was.
And the way she sings it is way more suggestive than anything in If. A better comparison would be Any Time, Any Place, which is more genuinely sensual than anything Madonna ever did. | |
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VoicesCarry said: ehuffnsd said: bd/sm is more about the mind fuck than the physical fuck... that's probaly why Erotica was written the way it was.
And the way she sings it is way more suggestive than anything in If. A better comparison would be Any Time, Any Place, which is more genuinely sensual than anything Madonna ever did. in all reality Madonna has written very few songs about sex... Erotica, Where Life Begins, and the Lenny Kravitz penned Justify My Love are the only ones I can think of. Most of her songs are self-respect, dancing, family, self discovery, lost relationships, and i'm not going to try to spell it but songs about loving someone who doesn't love you back. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: VoicesCarry said:
And the way she sings it is way more suggestive than anything in If. A better comparison would be Any Time, Any Place, which is more genuinely sensual than anything Madonna ever did. in all reality Madonna has written very few songs about sex... Erotica, Where Life Begins, and the Lenny Kravitz penned Justify My Love are the only ones I can think of. Most of her songs are self-respect, dancing, family, self discovery, lost relationships, and i'm not going to try to spell it but songs about loving someone who doesn't love you back. You forgot about Ingrid Chavez | |
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VoicesCarry said: ehuffnsd said: in all reality Madonna has written very few songs about sex... Erotica, Where Life Begins, and the Lenny Kravitz penned Justify My Love are the only ones I can think of. Most of her songs are self-respect, dancing, family, self discovery, lost relationships, and i'm not going to try to spell it but songs about loving someone who doesn't love you back. You forgot about Ingrid Chavez my bad... You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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VoicesCarry said: ehuffnsd said: bd/sm is more about the mind fuck than the physical fuck... that's probaly why Erotica was written the way it was.
And the way she sings it is way more suggestive than anything in If. as i said, Madonna can convince you she's being slutty when she isn't. she's too clever for that. that's what makes her a genius. she can sing something completely innocuous, that sounds like it's from the diary of a 12 year old girl (Justify My Love) and make your pussy wet. aside from the Sex book remix of Erotica (which was only available sealed in a book only for sale to adults showing proof of age), she's never written anything as risque as the following: "Your smooth and shiny Feels so good against my lips sugar I want you so bad I can Taste your love right now baby Day and night Night and day" that shit didn't even have a sticker on it, and is one of the tamer of Janet's slutty songs. [Edited 9/23/04 16:27pm] "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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Tessa said: VoicesCarry said:
And the way she sings it is way more suggestive than anything in If. as i said, Madonna can convince you she's being slutty when she isn't. she's too clever for that. that's what makes her a genius. she can sing something completely innocuous, that sounds like it's from the diary of a 12 year old girl (Justify My Love) and make your pussy wet. aside from the Sex book remix of Erotica (which was only available sealed in a book only for sale to adults showing proof of age), she's never written anything as risque as the following: "Your smooth and shiny Feels so good against my lips sugar I want you so bad I can Taste your love right now baby Day and night Night and day" that shit didn't even have a sticker on it, and is one of the tamer of Janet's slutty songs. [Edited 9/23/04 16:27pm] As I said, I completely disagree, but I respect your opinion. Any reasonable vocalist can slut up the Justify My Love lyrics, it certainly doesn't take a "genius" to do it. Marlene Dietrich could have done wonders with them. | |
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not to keep this going but...
back in the day, madonna was nasty in a very obviously sexual, blunt and often vulgar way whereas janet was more sensual in her handling of sex. after the janet. album, she got pretty blatant but it was still more sensual...hello? the velvet rope is a sexy, sexy cd! i will say that songs like warmth and would you mind go a little too far (i mean, i don't necessarily need you to spell it out and point it out, etc., etc. etc.). all in all, though, madonna is not as "sexy" with her "sex" music. i mean, i don't have any madonna songs on my "booty call" mixes, you know? but damn if i don't have anytime, anyplace or rope burn or twenty four play...she's just good at seduction whereas madonna really does need to "hit you with a truck" to get her point across when it comes to sex jams. | |
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What about a TORI VS. BJöRK thread?? | |
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SassyBritches said: not to keep this going but...
back in the day, madonna was nasty in a very obviously sexual, blunt and often vulgar way whereas janet was more sensual in her handling of sex. after the janet. album, she got pretty blatant but it was still more sensual...hello? the velvet rope is a sexy, sexy cd! i will say that songs like warmth and would you mind go a little too far (i mean, i don't necessarily need you to spell it out and point it out, etc., etc. etc.). all in all, though, madonna is not as "sexy" with her "sex" music. i mean, i don't have any madonna songs on my "booty call" mixes, you know? because she doesn't do "booty call" songs. she doesn't need to pander in that way. but as for the question at hand, I don't mind Janet. it's not her or her music that puts me off. she just bores me these days. it's her fans that i can't stand. i don't mean that as a personal attack on anyone here in particular, it's just the vibe i've gotten from them over the last 10 years or so. I've got plenty of gripes with Madonna, even though I'm a huge fan. but janet's fans generally can't even tolerate the slightest insinuation that janet is imperfect. "she's so sweet and nice and sexy. how can you beat up on her" just doesn't pass for a defense of how stagnant her career is. "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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