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Printablespeeddemon said: SquirrelMeat said: Elvis, by a long way!
His lookalikes have become an institution. He has a museum that is one of the most successful in the world. He is topping the charts 25 years after his death, and his songs transend generations. People say, "where were you when Elvis died?" as if it were Kennedy or Neil Armstrong landing on the moon. They are not going to be saying in 25 years time, "where were you when Michael was convicted of child rape". As for the kids of today not knowing Elvis.....they know Avril Lavine's songs, but it doesn't make her bigger than Madonna. His songs transcend generations? Are u kidding? Most people don't know any Elvis songs. However, MJ's songs are constantly played on radios and clubs, covered and sampled. Michael's had a more profound influence on today's pop culture. WTF are you smoking? I know 5-year-olds who are very familiar with Love Me Tender, Hound Dog, Don't Be Cruel, etc. | |
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speeddemon said: SquirrelMeat said: Exactly. Elvis managed successful multiple cross over, and topped both of the main entertainment industries. We are talking who is the biggest superstar. Not pop star. Elvis has never been a important figure in the movie industry. If you want to talk about multi cross over, Elvis has simply been a successful solo artist. MJ has been the top solo entertainer ever (whether you like him or not) and the frontman of one of the most successful group of all time. MJ has had #1 hits on the R&B charts, Dance charts , AC charts, Pop charts both solo and with the Jackson 5. He's been inducted twice on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's won far more awards than anybody. More stupidity. He was a huge box office attraction for about 10 years. | |
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speeddemon said: SquirrelMeat said: Name 5 MJ films? Name 5 Elvis videos? Elvis might have made movies, but they were all bad. Michael literraly made the best music videos and pionnered the medium that transformed the landscape in popular culture during the last 25 years. This is inane - there were no music videos in the 50's, so you can't compare the two artists using a format that hadn't even been invented in Elvis' time. And as far as music videos go, the technical department should get most of the credit - for any artist. Unless the artist directs, acts as the cinematographer and/or art director, etc. | |
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speeddemon said: WildStyle said: 3 Elvis albums?
Elvis Presley Elvis Is Back! From Elvis In Mepmhis But I am a huge fan  Thank you, Elvis fan but to the comon people, few can name any Elvis albums, whether Thriller and most of MJ's solo albums are known by name all over the world. Every one of Elvis' movies is a record. Name a movie, you've named a record. But Elvis' best years were before albums were seen as art. That did not happen till the 60's. Back then, it was about the 45, and plenty of his 45's are well known throughout the world Similarly, i don't know the names of Frank Sinatra's albums, or Ray Charles' or Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, but nobody would deny that they are legends, or that they have many, many great songs. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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speeddemon said: MJ's songs are constantly played on radios and clubs, covered and sampled.
Michael's had a more profound influence on today's pop culture. Although i've already stated Elvis, this is a very good point indeed. I almost could change my mind. I'd say Mike has been bigger at some points in his career than Elvis ever was (1970, 1983/4, and 1987/8 spring to mind) Still Elvis though. |
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Marrk said: speeddemon said: MJ's songs are constantly played on radios and clubs, covered and sampled.
Michael's had a more profound influence on today's pop culture. Although i've already stated Elvis, this is a very good point indeed. I almost could change my mind. I'd say Mike has been bigger at some points in his career than Elvis ever was (1970, 1983/4, and 1987/8 spring to mind) Still Elvis though. I agree that Michael may have eclipsed Elvis with Thriller, but the Bad era and anything during the Jackson 5 tenure don't even come close to the frenzy that Elvis created ca. 1955-1956. | |
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VoicesCarry said: Marrk said: Although i've already stated Elvis, this is a very good point indeed. I almost could change my mind. I'd say Mike has been bigger at some points in his career than Elvis ever was (1970, 1983/4, and 1987/8 spring to mind) Still Elvis though. I agree that Michael may have eclipsed Elvis with Thriller, but the Bad era and anything during the Jackson 5 tenure don't even come close to the frenzy that Elvis created ca. 1955-1956. Little Richard shoulda kicked his ass. |
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Marrk said: VoicesCarry said: I agree that Michael may have eclipsed Elvis with Thriller, but the Bad era and anything during the Jackson 5 tenure don't even come close to the frenzy that Elvis created ca. 1955-1956. Little Richard shoulda kicked his ass.  | |
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speeddemon said: SquirrelMeat said: Exactly. Elvis managed successful multiple cross over, and topped both of the main entertainment industries. We are talking who is the biggest superstar. Not pop star. Elvis has never been a important figure in the movie industry. If you want to talk about multi cross over, Elvis has simply been a successful solo artist. MJ has been the top solo entertainer ever (whether you like him or not) and the frontman of one of the most successful group of all time. MJ has had #1 hits on the R&B charts, Dance charts , AC charts, Pop charts both solo and with the Jackson 5. He's been inducted twice on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's won far more awards than anybody. Speeddemon (I'm sure you are objective with a name like that), you need to read more. Elvis is an institution, the world over, not just in America. If you travel to China, the country with the worlds biggest population, you'll find many Beatles and Elvis tapes....but with MJ, you'll come across the odd copy of Bad. You want to compare hit videos? You really are clutching at straws. Shall we compare who sold the most 78rpm singles then? Thats fair. Comparing formats that didn't exist in the others era. Elvis films are not any good? So what? They topped the box office for 10 years. You are letting MJ blinkers blur the difference between opinion and fact. Anyone going to argue that Moonwalking wasn't crap too? But it also bombed. Unlike elvis. And if you do want to bring good/bad in to it, who wants to debate Ghosts, History mix, Invincible and paying kids off? Elvis: Biggest selling artist of all time First major cross over artist One of the founders of modern rock and roll Largest amount of number one singles of all time Biggest grossing film star of the 60's More tribute acts than any other in the world The second most covered artist of all time (after the beatles) The most chosen kareoke star in the world The highest merchandised star in the world One of the worlds most successful museums in the world The only artist to top both the music and film industry for a decade. As for kids not knowing Elvis songs....as everyone has pointed out, do you live on another planet? Besides, I was never alive in Elvis era, and I don't own one of his records, so how can I name 20 hits straight of the top of my head? MJ is great, huge, but he's got a way to go before he takes the crown. And he's gonna have a hard job doing it from prison. Elvis does influence now. Thats why more people cover his songs than MJ. And as for MJ having more of a major influence on the kids of today, of course he will, some of his hits will be known by the kids in their lifetime. That goes without saying. That doesn't make a more relevant or bigger superstar. A lot of the current bands are influenced by RUN DMC, does that make RUN DMC bigger than the Beatles????? Crazy!  . |
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Elvis
love him or hate him but Elvis has opened the door for all great black or white rockers like Eddie Cochran, Little Richard, Gene Vincent.. Michael has opened the door for Usher, his sister and Justin * [Edited 9/15/04 15:56pm] | |
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Novabreaker said: VoicesCarry said: If you're musically literate, that's hardly a difficult task. I'm sure few of the "kids today" could do it, but then naming 3 P. Diddy albums should land them 25 in the state pen, so they're not exactly barometers of good taste. No. I don't think so. Very few people own Elvis Presley albums - and that's a fact. Everyone might have their own copy "The Ultimate Collection" or something in that vein, but other than that most people are so unaware of Elvis Presley's recording catalog it's almost endearing. in his prime, elvis wasn't recording in an album-centric era of pop/rock. singles were all anyone cared about, and albums themselves were little (or nothing) more than a collection of the previous year's singles. Elvis actually played a large part in moving the interest to the album rather than the single. "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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Elvis fo sho' ( He never even traveled outside the USA on tours or anything and the media was not that big back in the day so you KNOW it was all about the talent/charisma and not hype that brought audiences to him)
MJ had mad media and they promoted him like crazy.... ELVIS ALL THE WAYYY!!!!! | |
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Elvis!
the so called king of flop can't beat the real King!!! "Time is a train, makes the future the past" | |
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 [Edited 9/16/04 0:05am] "Time is a train, makes the future the past" | |
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I'm gonna say elvis, but i think the big difference between these guys is that MJ actually wrote a good part of his songs, something Elvis rarely did.
But even though Elvis borrowed heavily from other musical artists (carl perkins, jerry lee lewis,...) he was the man that laid the foundations of rock music and without him or his impact on music (2 quote 'humo') this site would 've probably been called dorisday.org [Edited 9/16/04 0:25am] [Edited 9/16/04 0:26am] It was not in vain...it was in Minneapolis! | |
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SquirrelMeat said: LightOfArt said: he doesnt have 5 films. unless u consider Ghosts a movie Exactly. Elvis managed successful multiple cross over, and topped both of the main entertainment industries. We are talking who is the biggest superstar. Not pop star. But let's be honest,most of those Elvis "movies" were flops.He was no actor,and the films were nothing more than vanity productions (his "Cherry Moons",if you will) | |
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kev1n said: I'm gonna say elvis, but i think the big difference between these guys is that MJ actually wrote a good part of his songs, something Elvis rarely did.
I always thought Elvis never even wrote one single line in a song? I might be wrong though.. theAudience? anyone? someone could answer this? Vanglorious... this is protected by the red, the black, and the green. With a key... sissy! | |
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Dancelot said: kev1n said: I'm gonna say elvis, but i think the big difference between these guys is that MJ actually wrote a good part of his songs, something Elvis rarely did.
I always thought Elvis never even wrote one single line in a song? I might be wrong though.. theAudience? anyone? someone could answer this? Elvis did dabble in a bit of writing I believe. I think he co-wrote Heartbreak hotel or Don't be cruel. Theres no doubt whatsoever that MJ is more talented. . |
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PrimeraDama said: Elvis fo sho' ( He never even traveled outside the USA on tours or anything and the media was not that big back in the day so you KNOW it was all about the talent/charisma and not hype that brought audiences to him)
MJ had mad media and they promoted him like crazy.... ELVIS ALL THE WAYYY!!!!! That's stupid. Nobody has been as hyped as Elvis, the guy was given credit for things he didn't do. Furthermore, the media were not that big back in the day but there were less competition, and blacks were already disqualified. As for Michael, he became the biggest on a business laid by white corporations, who used to refuse him access on MTV. The success of Michael has nothing to do with hype, he was the one who reinvented the business and who created the whole MTV hype. | |
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GrayKing said: Novabreaker said: No. I don't think so. Very few people own Elvis Presley albums - and that's a fact. Everyone might have their own copy "The Ultimate Collection" or something in that vein, but other than that most people are so unaware of Elvis Presley's recording catalog it's almost endearing. in his prime, elvis wasn't recording in an album-centric era of pop/rock. singles were all anyone cared about, and albums themselves were little (or nothing) more than a collection of the previous year's singles. Elvis actually played a large part in moving the interest to the album rather than the single. No, Elvis did nothing for albums. During his prime in the 50's, even Harry Belafonte's and Johnny Mathis' albums were outselling Elvis ones. The album became an important format for Rock thanks to the likes of Bob Dylan, the Beatles back in the mid-60's. | |
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speeddemon said: PrimeraDama said: Elvis fo sho' ( He never even traveled outside the USA on tours or anything and the media was not that big back in the day so you KNOW it was all about the talent/charisma and not hype that brought audiences to him)
MJ had mad media and they promoted him like crazy.... ELVIS ALL THE WAYYY!!!!! That's stupid. Nobody has been as hyped as Elvis, the guy was given credit for things he didn't do. Furthermore, the media were not that big back in the day but there were less competition, and blacks were already disqualified. As for Michael, he became the biggest on a business laid by white corporations, who used to refuse him access on MTV. The success of Michael has nothing to do with hype, he was the one who reinvented the business and who created the whole MTV hype. Only someone obsessed with MJ couldnt say he was massively hyped by the media “If I can shoot rabbits/then I can shoot fascists” | |
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SquirrelMeat said: speeddemon said: Elvis has never been a important figure in the movie industry. If you want to talk about multi cross over, Elvis has simply been a successful solo artist. MJ has been the top solo entertainer ever (whether you like him or not) and the frontman of one of the most successful group of all time. MJ has had #1 hits on the R&B charts, Dance charts , AC charts, Pop charts both solo and with the Jackson 5. He's been inducted twice on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's won far more awards than anybody. Speeddemon (I'm sure you are objective with a name like that), you need to read more. Elvis is an institution, the world over, not just in America. If you travel to China, the country with the worlds biggest population, you'll find many Beatles and Elvis tapes....but with MJ, you'll come across the odd copy of Bad. You want to compare hit videos? You really are clutching at straws. Shall we compare who sold the most 78rpm singles then? Thats fair. Comparing formats that didn't exist in the others era. Elvis films are not any good? So what? They topped the box office for 10 years. You are letting MJ blinkers blur the difference between opinion and fact. Anyone going to argue that Moonwalking wasn't crap too? But it also bombed. Unlike elvis. And if you do want to bring good/bad in to it, who wants to debate Ghosts, History mix, Invincible and paying kids off? Elvis: Biggest selling artist of all time First major cross over artist One of the founders of modern rock and roll Largest amount of number one singles of all time Biggest grossing film star of the 60's More tribute acts than any other in the world The second most covered artist of all time (after the beatles)
The most chosen kareoke star in the world The highest merchandised star in the world One of the worlds most successful museums in the world The only artist to top both the music and film industry for a decade. As for kids not knowing Elvis songs....as everyone has pointed out, do you live on another planet? Besides, I was never alive in Elvis era, and I don't own one of his records, so how can I name 20 hits straight of the top of my head? MJ is great, huge, but he's got a way to go before he takes the crown. And he's gonna have a hard job doing it from prison. Elvis does influence now. Thats why more people cover his songs than MJ. And as for MJ having more of a major influence on the kids of today, of course he will, some of his hits will be known by the kids in their lifetime. That goes without saying. That doesn't make a more relevant or bigger superstar. A lot of the current bands are influenced by RUN DMC, does that make RUN DMC bigger than the Beatles????? Crazy! First, I'm as objective as you're an Elvis fan. Elvis isn't as big as Michael outside the US. Bob Marley is much more important than Elvis internationally. Second, MJ has certainly sold more records than Elvis during his career. Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra were crossover artists before Elvis, if you consider Elvis a crossover artist. Elvis didn't have the most #1s, the Beatles had more #1s on the Hot 100. Michael Jackson has also had more #1s than Elvis. Elvis wasn't the biggest grossing movie star of the 60's , you fool . Julie Andrews, Paul Newman, Sean Connery were far bigger draw. The second most covered artist of all time (after the beatles) Man, go out of Graceland !!!
You're ridiculous. James Brown, Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder and hundreds more are more covered than Elvis but he certainly was one of those who covered the most!!! So go back to Earth, Elvis means nothing in today's world, his influence is nowhere. Quite the contrary, for many in the Black community, he's the object of hatred and scorn. Musically, his music is totally old-fashioned and isn't played anymore apart of oldies radios and rodeo festivals. You said that you can name 20 Elvis songs: Thanks, Elvis fan but no thank you , I was talking about common people. Stevie Wonder and Bob Marley's music are much more remembered and still influential. Elvis' myth is more about kitsh than music. | |
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PrimeraDama said: Elvis fo sho' ( He never even traveled outside the USA on tours or anything and the media was not that big back in the day so you KNOW it was all about the talent/charisma and not hype that brought audiences to him)
MJ had mad media and they promoted him like crazy.... ELVIS ALL THE WAYYY!!!!! Michael is accused of many disgusting things including, child molestation and still has a huge fan force. that alone tells something. media only promoted him as a sick freak, he still managed to remain a bright star. noone comes near michael's popularity internationally. as speeddemon said bob marley is better known than elvis. elvis was mainly a USA and maybe european act. | |
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let me just say that Elvis did not open the door all that much...Elvis was an exact replica of Jackie Wilson a very popular soul singer who's life was cut short. Watch the tapes and you'll see that those moves that Elvis did and his style, that the ladies went crazy over (the splits and all) Jackie Wilson had already made that popular at the Apollo. Elvis even mentioned that Jackie Wilson was an influence on him.
Elvis and MJ are both great entertainers in their own right, but you need to take a closer look at the entertainment business during that time. Back then black artists would put pictures of white folks on their albums or no photo at all, just so they would be sold. If times were different then who knows...so you really can't say who is bigger. They're both great and were great at their craft. And leave it at that! | |
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I'd love to know where some poeples "facts" come from.
Elvis holds the official world record for the most registered impersonators, 35,000, in over 171 countries. Hardly just USA and Europe thing is he!? Have you guys never travelled? Spend some time in Asia and Africa and you'll find Elvis is a hell of a lot more popular than Bob Marley. Walk into a shop in Egypt for example, you'll have a lot better chance of finding 3 Elvis albums and seeing sight of Bobs "Legend". Elvis is truely global, without even touring. There's no point quoting billboard 100 stats only. Thats not the whole picture. Try the world. Elvis is the official Guiness Book Of World Records holder for the most records sold. 117.5 million albums, and 211 million singles. That doesn't include the last 2 number one albums (the first one sold something like 8.5m). Elvis is the official world record holder of the most number one singles. Not simply the USA stats. Elvis recieved a special film award from the academy in 1965 for oustanding contribution to the film industry. By 1965, his films had grossed $165m. Even legendary film producer Hal wallis said "A Presley movie is the only sure thing in show business". Aloha from Hawaii was the first TV programme to register 1 billion viewers. All these facts are from 2 minute search on the Internet, simply to back up what most people know already. For the record, I do not own an Elvis recording. I think his music is pretty cool, I think his films suck, But credit where credit is due. Like him or not, he topped BOTH of the main media outlets, bigger than anyone in his time, and in music, bigger than anyone at all. The guy even managed all this by the time he died at 42. I do own all of MJ's solo material, and I love it, but to say he's a bigger superstar is crazy. He can claim the biggest album sale for Thriller, and the biggest video sale. He can also fight it out in the top 3 for record sales. But thats about where it ends. MJ is a one-off fantastic performer, but he's no Elvis. When I see an MJ Inpersonator Curry House open in my town, like the Elvis one, I'll know MJ is finally rising to the challenge. . |
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Elvis is well up there on chart hits in the uk. he's bigger than jackson, but not better
Some MJ fans on this board are plain and simply blinkered “If I can shoot rabbits/then I can shoot fascists” | |
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sermwanderer said: speeddemon said: That's stupid. Nobody has been as hyped as Elvis, the guy was given credit for things he didn't do. Furthermore, the media were not that big back in the day but there were less competition, and blacks were already disqualified. As for Michael, he became the biggest on a business laid by white corporations, who used to refuse him access on MTV. The success of Michael has nothing to do with hype, he was the one who reinvented the business and who created the whole MTV hype. Only someone obsessed with MJ couldnt say he was massively hyped by the media The media has done more to hurt him than help him IMO. I guess some would class that as hype, i wouldn't though. |
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Marrk said: sermwanderer said: Only someone obsessed with MJ couldnt say he was massively hyped by the media The media has done more to hurt him than help him IMO. I guess some would class that as hype, i wouldn't though. Very true... Lets blame the media for your declining record sales the media is harsher on jackson than other stars... i still don't think thats an excuse... on stardom... Who's More Famous? I dunno... we'll have to wait untill Jackson dies and how his legacy stands... thats the only way you're gonna know but like i said before... JIMI HENDRIX IS BIGGER THAN BOTH OF THEM! and will always be remembered for his flamboyant guitar playing! | |
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speeddemon said: So go back to Earth, Elvis means nothing in today's world, his influence is nowhere. Quite the contrary, for many in the Black community, he's the object of hatred and scorn. Musically, his music is totally old-fashioned and isn't played anymore apart of oldies radios and rodeo festivals. are you serious? Elvis was one of the key factors in establishing rock & roll (and rock music in general wich originated from it). He may not have come up with the concept but he damn sure brought the memphis sound to every household in the world. Guys like Jerry lee lewis, roy orbisson, johnny cash, Carl perkins, and so many others benefited hugely from elvis' spotlight. he brought 'sun records' and it's incredible stable into the sunlight. Saying that Elvis had little to no influence on today's music is saying that guys like stevie wonder or marvin gaye had no influence. The best way to compare this is to take a look at little richard (who elvis took a lot from), sure kids today don't know him but without the guy there would be no Jay-z, no dr dre, no snoop dog, no nothin. The same goes for elvis and rock if it wasn't for elvis rock music MIGHT never have become as big as it was and is. And that's not just the ramblin of a fan (wich i'm not) but simple music history. It was not in vain...it was in Minneapolis! | |
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DavidEye said: SquirrelMeat said: Exactly. Elvis managed successful multiple cross over, and topped both of the main entertainment industries. We are talking who is the biggest superstar. Not pop star. But let's be honest,most of those Elvis "movies" were flops.He was no actor,and the films were nothing more than vanity productions (his "Cherry Moons",if you will) Sorry, quality-wise they may have been shit but they made a hell of a lot of money. If I'm not mistaken he was the top box office male for a number of years. | |
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