New topic
Printable| Author | Message |
Rock And Roll N***/Patti Smith Rock And Roll Nigger/Patti Smith
I first got hip to this when I was a kid and I was over at this girl's house and I was looking through her albums. She bounced over and tried to hide an album from me. I said "What is it? Let me see." And she said "No, you'll get mad." I said "Why? What is it?" Finally I got the record from her and looked at it. It was Patti Smith and the album was "Easter". I didn't see anything because I was looking at the front cover. I turned the album over and read the song titles and then it hit me. "Rock And Roll Nigger". I grew up listening to so many different types of music and never had I ran across something as racist as this. First I was in a kind of shock, then I got mad, just like Tammy said I would. She looked at me and said "She sucks. I don't like her. It's stupid. It's Melissa's album. (her older sister). I said "play it". I listened to it and heard Patti Smith sing "Jimi Hendrix was a nigger". I was floored. I couldn't believe it. Anyway, I found out much later that Patti actually wanted to name the album "Rock And Roll Nigger" but her label wouldn't let her. She actually did a remake of "Hey Joe" in 74 and recorded it at (guess where) Hendrix's Electric Ladyland Studios. What the fuck? She also did a remake of "When Doves Cry" that was on her album "Land" in 2002. Anyway, who out there is hip to this song? [EDITING THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD CAUSE I PERSONALLY DONT WANT TO HAVE TO LOOK AT IT EVERYTIME I CRUISE THIS FORUM.....-SOS] SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Needless to say, after that, I wasn't a Patti Smith fan. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Taken in context, it's an amazingly powerful (and empowering) song. If you're blinded by the mere inclusion of that word in the lyrics, you're missing the entire point. I understand that's a volatile word, but if you take the time to figure out why she chose to use it, I think you'd respect her choice (and her talent) a little more. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Anxiety said: Taken in context, it's an amazingly powerful (and empowering) song. If you're blinded by the mere inclusion of that word in the lyrics, you're missing the entire point. I understand that's a volatile word, but if you take the time to figure out why she chose to use it, I think you'd respect her choice (and her talent) a little more.
Looking at the lyrics, there's really no accurate way to tell which side of the fence she's sitting on. The lyrics aren't easily interpreted and could be taken from an antagonist's or protagonist's point of view. The whole "outside of society" part is what makes me question her intentions of "empowerment". As offensive as the title is, personally I don't think she should have been so opaque with her intentions. If a man released a song tomorrow called "I Wouldn't Call You A Bitch or Ho (If You Didn't Act Like One)" I'm pretty sure women would be just as offended whether or not he intended for the message to demean women. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
psykosoul said: If a man released a song tomorrow called "I Wouldn't Call You A Bitch or Ho (If You Didn't Act Like One)" I'm pretty sure women would be just as offended whether or not he intended for the message to demean women.
Just an example of what's out there today..... (Well, maybe the title is ok, Groupie Love, but just look at the lyrics...  )
G-unit [Intro] Ive been so many places Ive seen so many faces Girl you look like someone that I've done fucked before Ive been around the world Ive meet all kinds of girls Girl you look like someone I done fucked on tour [50 Cent (Singing)] (Now everythings changed) Im rich bitch (Youve done heard of my name) 50 cent bitch (Ima p.i.m.p) Ima pimp bitch (You done heard about me) Coz im the shit bitch Now things change at first they didnt want me now they want me See a nigga gettin payed they wanna push up on me You see these hoes chasing a nigga Have em in a hotel casing a nigga Treat me like a lollypop like me baby Then lick Dr Dre and Shady [Chorus] Groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love When you see me in V.I.P with hoes around me Man now give me that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Tonight you wanna fuck wiv me its alright with me Come on an gimme that groupie love [Tony Yayo] Sometimes i rhyme slow sometimes i rhyme quick Thats the reason these groupies is on my dick Listen young and old these hoes is loose Wintertimes the staircase summertimes the roof Gimme 8 days in the 8th hommie im straight Have a church girl on the bus move an wait I got birds backstage the serious eye candy I got birds in the hood so im in to birds with mary My writing methods got me more hoes than tice and betha Icy necklace on the tour bus ass naked here staright jump Bitch say how high and flag down a car when the shit drive by Im a pimp like preety tone i got the info on the preety chrome Fuicking hoes over fifty four my name here weight you barely no You on that R Kelly shit your bitch is barely grown [Chorus] Groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love When you see me in V.I.P with hoes around me Man now give me that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Tonight you wanna fuck wiv me its alright with me Come on an gimme that groupie love GGGGG GGGGG G-unit [Lloyd Banks] Is shorty aint feelin me shorty must like girls Coz im only eatin your whirl Bitch I can make you famous u dont know what your missin I can change your mind if you listen If the bitch dont like me the bitch must dont like men (like men) I say what I want coz I can If I didnt id be a liar Mommy im on fire Come ride with a rider The crowd say you might catch the king with a singer For touching my doorbells the only way ill put a ring on your finger Give me a convo with two cups an Im in your bedroom fucking up your sheets like the ku klux klan I shook hands wiv my fans and fuck em Im in the hallways tryin to duck em So i can climb in to somethin My names B-A-N-K dollar sign bitch Im a bigme to make that switch Now come gimmie that [Chorus] Groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love When you see me in V.I.P with hoes around me Man now give me that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Tonight you wanna fuck wiv me its alright with me Come on an gimme that groupie love (Groupie love I love that shit) [Outro] Groupies come and groupies go And they are allways at our show So I grab me the tightest one and purseed straight to the mall Shes so excited thats shes here with me that she feels she should pay here fee And I did not disagree so she dropped down to her knees [X3] Groupie love Yeah 
I'm sure these guys have PLENTY of female fans. 
I'm not offended by it myself as a woman though. I just can't get over how damn DUMB these lyrics are.  [Edited 9/7/04 14:18pm] "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Anxiety said: Taken in context, it's an amazingly powerful (and empowering) song. If you're blinded by the mere inclusion of that word in the lyrics, you're missing the entire point. I understand that's a volatile word, but if you take the time to figure out why she chose to use it, I think you'd respect her choice (and her talent) a little more.
That's one of the reasons I posted this. I knew some folks were going to defend it or better yet, justify it. No one is blinded here, player. And no one is missing the point. I'm glad it's (empowering) to you though. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
minneapolisgenius said: psykosoul said: If a man released a song tomorrow called "I Wouldn't Call You A Bitch or Ho (If You Didn't Act Like One)" I'm pretty sure women would be just as offended whether or not he intended for the message to demean women.
Just an example of what's out there today..... (Well, maybe the title is ok, Groupie Love, but just look at the lyrics... )
G-unit [Intro] Ive been so many places Ive seen so many faces Girl you look like someone that I've done fucked before Ive been around the world Ive meet all kinds of girls Girl you look like someone I done fucked on tour [50 Cent (Singing)] (Now everythings changed) Im rich bitch (Youve done heard of my name) 50 cent bitch (Ima p.i.m.p) Ima pimp bitch (You done heard about me) Coz im the shit bitch Now things change at first they didnt want me now they want me See a nigga gettin payed they wanna push up on me You see these hoes chasing a nigga Have em in a hotel casing a nigga Treat me like a lollypop like me baby Then lick Dr Dre and Shady [Chorus] Groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love When you see me in V.I.P with hoes around me Man now give me that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Tonight you wanna fuck wiv me its alright with me Come on an gimme that groupie love [Tony Yayo] Sometimes i rhyme slow sometimes i rhyme quick Thats the reason these groupies is on my dick Listen young and old these hoes is loose Wintertimes the staircase summertimes the roof Gimme 8 days in the 8th hommie im straight Have a church girl on the bus move an wait I got birds backstage the serious eye candy I got birds in the hood so im in to birds with mary My writing methods got me more hoes than tice and betha Icy necklace on the tour bus ass naked here staright jump Bitch say how high and flag down a car when the shit drive by Im a pimp like preety tone i got the info on the preety chrome Fuicking hoes over fifty four my name here weight you barely no You on that R Kelly shit your bitch is barely grown [Chorus] Groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love When you see me in V.I.P with hoes around me Man now give me that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Tonight you wanna fuck wiv me its alright with me Come on an gimme that groupie love GGGGG GGGGG G-unit [Lloyd Banks] Is shorty aint feelin me shorty must like girls Coz im only eatin your whirl Bitch I can make you famous u dont know what your missin I can change your mind if you listen If the bitch dont like me the bitch must dont like men (like men) I say what I want coz I can If I didnt id be a liar Mommy im on fire Come ride with a rider The crowd say you might catch the king with a singer For touching my doorbells the only way ill put a ring on your finger Give me a convo with two cups an Im in your bedroom fucking up your sheets like the ku klux klan I shook hands wiv my fans and fuck em Im in the hallways tryin to duck em So i can climb in to somethin My names B-A-N-K dollar sign bitch Im a bigme to make that switch Now come gimmie that [Chorus] Groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Now gimme gimme gimme that groupie love When you see me in V.I.P with hoes around me Man now give me that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Come gimme gimme gimme that groupie love Tonight you wanna fuck wiv me its alright with me Come on an gimme that groupie love (Groupie love I love that shit) [Outro] Groupies come and groupies go And they are allways at our show So I grab me the tightest one and purseed straight to the mall Shes so excited thats shes here with me that she feels she should pay here fee And I did not disagree so she dropped down to her knees [X3] Groupie love Yeah
I'm sure these guys have PLENTY of female fans.
I'm not offended by it myself as a woman though. I just can't get over how damn DUMB these lyrics are.
[Edited 9/7/04 14:18pm] That's easy to do as well. Sidestepping the o.g. topic by keying in on an example someone may make about something else. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
psykosoul said: Anxiety said: Taken in context, it's an amazingly powerful (and empowering) song. If you're blinded by the mere inclusion of that word in the lyrics, you're missing the entire point. I understand that's a volatile word, but if you take the time to figure out why she chose to use it, I think you'd respect her choice (and her talent) a little more.
Looking at the lyrics, there's really no accurate way to tell which side of the fence she's sitting on. The lyrics aren't easily interpreted and could be taken from an antagonist's or protagonist's point of view. The whole "outside of society" part is what makes me question her intentions of "empowerment". As offensive as the title is, personally I don't think she should have been so opaque with her intentions. If a man released a song tomorrow called "I Wouldn't Call You A Bitch or Ho (If You Didn't Act Like One)" I'm pretty sure women would be just as offended whether or not he intended for the message to demean women. Very well said, psykosoul. I'm going to start calling u "Poetsoul". SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Anxiety said: Taken in context, it's an amazingly powerful (and empowering) song. If you're blinded by the mere inclusion of that word in the lyrics, you're missing the entire point. I understand that's a volatile word, but if you take the time to figure out why she chose to use it, I think you'd respect her choice (and her talent) a little more.
And singing "Jimi Hendrix was a nigger" is (empowering) to who? SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Manson's version is great. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
blackguitaristz said: That's easy to do as well. Sidestepping the o.g. topic by keying in on an example someone may make about something else.
What's your problem? It is a valid point in response to something psykosoul posted. I don't listen to Patti Smith, so I can't comment on the song you were referring to. I just wanted to contribute to your thread is all. I don't know why you're suddenly pissed at me, and I WOULD talk to you via orgnotes, but you DO realize that the orgnote function has been down and/or acting screwy for the past week and a half, don't you? I've asked you at least twice on threads (since it was the only was to contact you) if you had received my orgnotes. Obviously, you didn't.  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
well remember when lennon did "woman is the Nigger of the world?" what kind of shis is that 2 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
TheRealFiness said: well remember when lennon did "woman is the Nigger of the world?" what kind of shis is that 2
I was just going to mention that one as well. "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I've always known OF the song, but never actually heard it. I guess I'll have to look up the lyrics...'s gonna be a long-ass thread. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
TheRealFiness said: well remember when lennon did "woman is the Nigger of the world?" what kind of shis is that 2
I'm very aware of that song. I was going to mention it in my thread but 1) I felt it was an obvious comparison and 2) I didn't want that song to overshawdow the one I ran a thread about. John, even though I never dug him using the word "nigger" in the title, he is saying that women are looked down upon and expected to carry the load. Bad choice of words for his title. But, other than his title, the song doesn't offend me nearly in the same way as Patti's does. I just feel John was coming from another place. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
blackguitaristz said: TheRealFiness said: well remember when lennon did "woman is the Nigger of the world?" what kind of shis is that 2
I'm very aware of that song. I was going to mention it in my thread but 1) I felt it was an obvious comparison and 2) I didn't want that song to overshawdow the one I ran a thread about. John, even though I never dug him using the word "nigger" in the title, he is saying that women are looked down upon and expected to carry the load. Bad choice of words for his title. But, other than his title, the song doesn't offend me nearly in the same way as Patti's does. I just feel John was coming from another place. point taken | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
minneapolisgenius said: blackguitaristz said: That's easy to do as well. Sidestepping the o.g. topic by keying in on an example someone may make about something else.
What's your problem? It is a valid point in response to something psykosoul posted. I don't listen to Patti Smith, so I can't comment on the song you were referring to. I just wanted to contribute to your thread is all. I don't know why you're suddenly pissed at me, and I WOULD talk to you via orgnotes, but you DO realize that the orgnote function has been down and/or acting screwy for the past week and a half, don't you? I've asked you at least twice on threads (since it was the only was to contact you) if you had received my orgnotes. Obviously, you didn't. Oh, I love this. Because I made a valid point regarding your response to pskosoul, that makes me have a problem? Or angry with you? I'm not angry with you at all. Just making a point, that's all. A brother can't make a point? And in response to rap lyrics, Prince was one of the first black artists long before "gangsta rap" to refer to women as "bitches". To my knowledge, Rick James never refered to women as a "bitch" in one of his songs. So, funny man Dave should change "I'm Rick James, Bitch" to "I'm Prince, Bitch". That's far more accurate if the truth be known. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
blackguitaristz said: And singing "Jimi Hendrix was a nigger" is (empowering) to who? Rock'N'Roll Nigger Baby was a black sheep. Baby was a whore. Baby got big and baby get bigger. Baby get something. Baby get more. Baby, baby, baby was a rock-and-roll nigger. Oh, look around you, all around you, riding on a copper wave. Do you like the world around you? Are you ready to behave? Outside of society, they're waitin' for me. Outside of society, that's where I want to be. (Lenny!) Baby was a black sheep. Baby was a whore. You know she got big. Well, she's gonna get bigger. Baby got a hand; got a finger on the trigger. Baby, baby, baby is a rock-and-roll nigger. Outside of society, that's where I want to be. Outside of society, they're waitin' for me. (those who have suffered, understand suffering, and thereby extend their hand the storm that brings harm also makes fertile blessed is the grass and herb and the true thorn and light) I was lost in a valley of pleasure. I was lost in the infinite sea. I was lost, and measure for measure, love spewed from the heart of me. I was lost, and the cost, and the cost didn't matter to me. I was lost, and the cost was to be outside society. Jimi Hendrix was a nigger. Jesus Christ and Grandma, too. Jackson Pollock was a nigger. Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger. Outside of society, they're waitin' for me. Outside of society, if you're looking, that's where you'll find me. Outside of society, they're waitin' for me. Outside of society. (Repeat) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I don't think there's any way this song can be interpreted as racist - I never pay attention to or interpret lyrics, but it's always seemed fairly obvious that she's using nigger as an all-encompassing term for anyone who is on the fringe of society. Unless you believe the simple act of uttering that word makes her prejudiced, Patti clearly earns a pass here. This is not a bigoted lyric.
This is off-topic, but I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that I don't think there has been a more over-rated figure in all of popular music in the last thirty years than Patti Smith. Her music is dull, her lyrics are over-bearing and unspeakably pretentious, she has no vocal talent to speak of, and she sings in a shrill, nail-on-a-chalkboard style. [Edited 9/7/04 17:02pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
she's not one of my favorite artists either, but i will say that i absolutely adore the energy of "horses" and "radio ethiopia". she kinda reminds me of a hippie-poet version of p.j. harvey- she shot out of the gate all exaggerated and extreme and passionate, and kinda mellowed out over the years. of course, i know a lot of people who prefer latter-day pj harvey to the old stuff, so maybe that's not the most congruous analogy.
whatev. i liked "cowboy mouth".  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
blackguitaristz said: And in response to rap lyrics, Prince was one of the first black artists long before "gangsta rap" to refer to women as "bitches".
I don't know about the other times he's used the term, but to me, personally Irresistable Bitch is pure feminism. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
As far as the topic is concerned, it looks like Patti was trying to be cool and hip and sympathetic, but kind of dumbly ended up being offensive despite herself. It's just too much and goes over the line.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I'm assuming that this was not a single (but correct me if I'm wrong), but, when Patti put this song on her album, did this cause controversy amongst the black community? I mean, of course using a racial slur, black or white, as or in a title would be controversial, but because it is so commonly used amongst the black community, how big of an impact did this have?
I know that Marilyn Manson covered this song on his "Smells Like Children" LP, like EWM said. Did his rendition of it cause even more controversy, because of the fact that he was white, even though he didn't compose it? Like many of you are saying, I suspect that Patti used the word "nigger" to encompass all thugs and those on the fringe of society, so she probably understood Manson's wanting to cover it, being as how he is a major outcast to society. Surely, she must've not gotten offended because she licenced rights to Manson, correct, meaning that her intention was not focused on the black community either. But do you think, had another white artist composed this song (aside from Manson because all of his stuff is controversial and we expect nothing but controversy from him), it would've had a bigger impact on society as a whole even if the intention was the same as Patti's? Look at John Lennon's "Woman Is The Nigger Of The World". Lennon is saying that women are looked down upon, like the minorities he wanted to convey. But correct me if I'm wrong, didn't this song come out sometime in the '60's and when equal rights were not fully established? (I don't know my history right now...). It it were during this time period, don't you think that his use of the word "nigger" was moderately acceptable on a count of segregation? But, in modern times, if another white artist composed a song like these, with a good intention, how big of an impact do you think it would've had on society? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Not being a Patti Smith fan, i'd never heard or heard of the tune.
Looking at the lyrics now, i'll side with both of flipwilson's paragraphs. (With the exception of the "I never pay attention to or interpret lyrics..." line. Too many Steely Dan lyric re-reads) 
She seems to be alluding to the fact that the indiviuals mentioned are those whose contributions to "society" were or could be in some way marginalized by the majority. To be perfectly honest, if i'd simply heard the line "Jimi Hendrix was a nigger" at the time it was released, I probably would have freaked. Clarification Edit tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm [Edited 9/7/04 21:36pm] "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
heartbeatocean said: As far as the topic is concerned, it looks like Patti was trying to be cool and hip and sympathetic, but kind of dumbly ended up being offensive despite herself. It's just too much and goes over the line.
Or maybe she just wanted to do whatever the hell she wanted to do!! (okay, I like talking to myself...) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
so is it the use of the word itself that's objectionable, or is it the context of the word that's at question?
and if it's the mere use of the word that's objectionable - if in fact some of you think it would be ideal if that word were just banned across the board from being used in song lyrics or poetry - then how much more gunpowder are you packing into that word? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I have never heard of the song but I read the lyrics posted earlier. I really can't make heads or tails out of them. I have never heard of Patti Smith either so I really don't where she's coming from with her lyrics. The reason I say this is because, I've also never heard John Lennon's song "Woman Is The Nigger Of The World" but just by reading the title and knowing that it was Lennon, I am assuming that Lennon is comparing women and blacks as being the ones that have been "dumped" on by society and not getting a fair shake.
I can appreciate use of the word "nigger" in sarcastic ways like Sly and The Family Stone's "Don't call me nigger...whitey. Don't call me whitey...nigger." Or the way Prince uses it in "No Black Motherfuckers In The House" when he sarcastically mocks rednecks and makes fun of how ignorant they sound in using this word. As for rappers using this word as an everyday term for referring to each other. I think all that is doing is degrading black people. The people laughing are the prejudiced white people that use that word to refer to black people in general. They are the ones laughing and saying "See they even call themselves niggers because they know what they are". I've always heard that the real meaning of the word "nigger" is an "ignorant person". If this is true, there are "niggers" in every race. Nevertheless, because of the word's history, I consider this the most offensive word in the English language and the only time I use this word is when referring to what someone else has said or I use it sometimes when I am with friends and we are mocking and making fun of what a bunch of ignorant rednecks have said. Like I said, I don't know anything about Patti Smith or her music to give an honest opinion about the song but I can voice my opinion on the use of that word. Because of it's history, it is a very powerful word and people should be very careful in the way they use it. Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
just wanted to point out, in case anyone may have missed it, that jesus christ was (supposedly) a white man and jackson pollock was a white man yet she is referring to them as niggers. ths is so obviously NOT about race but rather perceptions. she even goes so far as to say she WANTS to be included on a list with these people...in other words she feels like she is what socety considers to be a "nigger". how is this racist? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Anxiety said: Taken in context, it's an amazingly powerful (and empowering) song. If you're blinded by the mere inclusion of that word in the lyrics, you're missing the entire point. I understand that's a volatile word, but if you take the time to figure out why she chose to use it, I think you'd respect her choice (and her talent) a little more.
Yup. The The used the word nigger in one of their songs, but the specific context of it's use was not to in relation to African Americans. In a wierd way--humor me on this explaination--it's kind of like calling someone a Nazi, or to say that they are naziesch--it doesn't denote that we think their white supremacies looking to revive the third riche. Remember Sienfield calling the asian soup guy the "soup Nazi"? It all depends on context. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Everybody wanna be a nigga, but don't nobody wanna be a nigga © Paul Mooney | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |