Its been a long time since I've seen a "single" of a song. Even when I look for one, I only find the entire cd. How are the charting the Hot 100 when I can't even find a single to buy? Most of the record stores tell me I have to order the single or they just don't carry them.


I'm just curious.

Rhondab said:

Some stores still sell singles, but most don't. That's because record companies have trained people not to buy them anymore. A few years back some rocket scientist executive decided albums will sell more if songs were shipped to radio, but not to stores. If a consumer's favorite song was being palyed all over the place and there was no single to be bought, then the consumer would be forced to buy the artist's album just to get the one song they like and record companies will make more money. It worked in the short run, but look at the mess record labels are in now--industry-wide decreases in music sales the last few years and millions of people download their favorite songs from the Internet for free. The few singles that do get released hardly sell anything because most people don't look for them anymore or even know they exist. Sales of singles aren't as bad in Europe, but in the U.S. the retail single is practically a dead format.

Oops, I didn't really answer your question now, did I? Billboard's Hot 100 is almost entirely based on radio airplay. If a retail single sells a lot of copies it can chart, but the sales have to be massive (like the ones by those American Idol finalists). The airplay/sales ratio used for the Hot 100 used to be 50/50, but now it's something ridiculous like 95/5.

sextonseven said:

That's right , here 's a look to the high decreased singles-market in the US:

BEST-SELLING SINGLES OF 2001

570,000 Mariah Carey - Loverboy
542,000 Joe - Stutter
539,000 Eden's Crush - Get Over Yourself
458,000 Janet Jackson - All For You
257,000 Lee Greenwood - God Bless The USA

BEST-SELLING SINGLES OF 2002

605,000 Kelly Clarkson - A Moment Like This/Before Your Love
370,000 B2K - Uh Huh
280,000 Mr. Cheeks - Lights, Camera, Action!
216,000 'N Sync Featuring Nelly - Girlfriend

BEST-SELLING SINGLES OF 2003

948,155 Clay Aiken - This Is the Night/Bridge Over Troubled Water
728,243 Ruben Studdard - Flying Without Wings/Superstar
392,489 Kid Rock - Picture
309,655 Idol Finalists - God Bless the USA
141,360 Hilary Duff - So Yesterday
132,967 Korn - Did My Time
121,376 Eagles - Hole in the World
116,785 Mariah Carey - Through the Rain
98,358 Aaliyah - Miss You
96,142 Jewel - Intuition

Today, most of the Hot 100's big hit (mostly urban) are radio-oriented. Early 90's were a much better period for singles.

SOUNDSCAN BEST-SELLING SINGLES 1991 - 2003

(sales in million units, artist - title)

8.8 Elton John - Candle in the Wind 1997
4.6 Whitney Houston - I Will Always Love You
4.2 Los Del Rio - Macarena (Bayside Boys Mix)
4.1 Bryan Adams - (Everything I Do) I Do It For You
3.5 Tag Team - Whoomp! (There It Is)
3.5 Leann Rimes - How Do I Live
3.2 Puff Daddy & Faith Evans ft 112 - I'll Be Missing You
3.0 Coolio ft LV - Gangsta's Paradise
2.7 Puff Daddy ft Mase - Can't Nobody Hold Me Down
2.6 Brandy & Monica - The Boy Is Mine
2.3 Mariah Carey & Boyz II Men- One Sweet Day
2.3 Usher - You Make Me Wanna ...
2.2 Next - Too Close
2.1 Bone Thugs 'N Harmony - Tha Crossroads
1.9 Boyz II Men - End of the Road
1.9 Shania Twain - Still The One
1.8 Mariah Carey - Fantasy
1.8 Spice Girls - Wannabe
1.8 Cher - Believe
1.7 2 Pac - How Do U Want It/California Love
1.7 Boyz II Men - I'll Make Love To You
1.6 Keith Sweat - Twisted
1.6 Blackstreet - No Diggity
1.6 Ace of Base - All that She Wants

the Hot 100 changed (again) in 1998 to allow for non-commercial/radio-only singles to chart, in a bid to make that chart relevant, since labels had stopped shipping singles for sale.


These days, you can even have the top selling single for the week, but if you don't have any airplay to go with it, then you won't even chart on the Hot 100. This happened with a couple of the singles from Madonna's "American Life" album.

Tessa said:

That's exact. i think Madonna's Nothing Fails single topped the Billboard sales chart but failed to enter the Hot 100.
Otherwise, the best days for singles sales were the late 70's at the peak of the disco era.

Just in the UK, disco band Boney M had sold 1,985,000 copies of River Of Babylon / Brown Girl In The Ring (1978)and 1,790,000 of Mary's Boy Child / Oh My Lord (1978).

sextonseven said:

yep the music industry totally got burned people said why should i buy the whole album? i only like 1 song! so what they did was they started downloading the singles they wanted and stuck it right up the music industry's ass for being greedy..i mean singles have been a part of popular music since the mid 50's! and have never really hurt album sales (in fact i have bought many albums BECAUSE of the retail single..i loved the b side and decided i would like the whole album) i mean why change something that has worked for over 50 years!

sextonseven said:

Actually it's about 75/25 now, used to be 25/75, which is how Mariah Carey was able to garner so many #1's.

sextonseven said:

I just buy the promo off eBay so they don't get any $ and they can't sue me for downloading

sextonseven said:

Not to mention the fact that te few singles that are released are priced too high for way to little. It's not like you're getting rare b-sides that Europe, which is very single friendly, tend to get. It's a game that really sucks where fans and artists suffer.

What really sucks is that artists like Janet that used to thrive on singles are no longer releasing them. And Madonna released a bunch but most of them were maxis with singles that left a lot to be desired.

It's funny that you started this thread about singles, because I was going to start one as well. Mostly because I never got the concept I guess. See how out of the loop I am....I wasn't even aware that most stores weren't selling them anymore.

That's because I've never bought an album/CD single in my life though.

VoicesCarry said:

Mariah used to also have her singles priced super-cheap. The label may lose money on the singles, but they would automatically sell half a million copies.

Supernova said:

that's the understatement of the year.



and FM radio is about one rung above birthday party clowns on the showbusiness ladder...

I can understand why record companies stopped selling singles. They were always loss leaders. They put them out there to get people into the record stores. It's sort of the same reason Best Buy and Circuit City sell CD's at all. The don't really make much profit on them, but it gets you going to the store, so when you want to buy a stereo, a TV, a washer, a dryer, etc., that's where you're trained to go.

Then again, as loss leaders go, singles were pretty effective ones for the record company. They cut off their nose to spite their face by getting rid of them.

If the singles chart is based on radio airplay, then people and sales have absolutely nothing to do with it. This means the radio stations TOTALLY make or break a song and guess who owns a lot of them.....Clear Channel! This is becoming totally ridiculous. Something needs to be done about that damned company because they are trying to rule the damned world!

vainandy said:

EXACTLY people and sales have nothing to do with the singles charts these days..so now with the radio programmers in charge of the charts payola is at an all time high!

vainandy said:

Clear Channel has always been The Devil. Get thee behind me Satan.

The single used to be the only way to roll.








tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

Mazerati said:

The best part is that they are to lazy or just too afraid to have any variety. A few young "alt" rock bands and the rest is hip hop with a smidge of pop. No hard and/or old school rock, no dance music and no one over 25.

vainandy said:

it's not as simple as that. it's a fine line really. yes, radio programmers decide what songs are going to be hot, with the urging of label executives. however, they have to choose wisely, as if they aren't picking the songs that people are going to want to hear, their ratings will go down, and they won't make any money. the people do have the power in the end, but usually it's too late by then. the song they love or hate is just a memory by the time its effects are felt. it's more a culmination of how well the execs and programmers are picking the hits.

That's why r&b and hip-hop dominate the charts. If you are an r&b artist, you can crossover to so many radio formats: urban, rhythm, and pop.

The sad fact is that r&b and hip-hop is at an all time low right now. Damn near everything sounds the same.

I wish it would go back to the old format, where if you looked on the top ten singles you could see a country, r&b, pop, and hard rock record.

Something really needs to change and soon.

sextonseven said:

No, what you're remembering is Virgin's drastic price cut to 49 cents to get Loverboy to sell and therefore chart at a reasonable plateau. All of Mariah's maxis previous to that sold at standard retail prices.
[Edited 9/4/04 18:49pm]

VoicesCarry said:

no, VoicesCarry is correct. particularly during the Daydream era. the 2-track Mariah singles were frequently $.49 and $.99..... i believe they actually changed the charting rules (or thought about changing them) for discount singles around that time because of this.

Tessa said:

Mariah's US CD single output from the Daydream era:

USA CD Single (44K 78044)
1. Fantasy (Album Version) - 04:05
2. Fantasy (Bad Boy Fantasy) - 04:52
3. Fantasy (Bad Boy With ODB) - 04:53
4. Fantasy (Bad Boy Mix) - 04:14
5. Fantasy (Def Club Mix) - 11:14

CD5, US Single - 38K 78074:
1. One Sweet Day - (4:41)
2. One Sweet Day (Live Version) - (5:08)

USA CD Single - 44K 78075:
1. OSD (Album Version) - 04:43
2. OSD (Sweet A Cappella) - 04:52
3. OSD (A Cappella) - 04:49
4. OSD (Chucky's Remix) - 04:51
5. OSD (Live Version MSG) - 05:10
6. Fantasy (Def Drums Mix) - 4:00

USA CD Single (44K 78277):
1. Always Be My Baby (Mr. Dupri No Rap Radio Mix Featuring Xscape) - 3:42
2. Always Be My Baby (Mr. Dupri Mix Featuring Da Brat And Xscape) - 4:40
3. Always Be My Baby (Mr. Dupri Extended Mix Featuring Da Brat And Xscape) - 5:30
4. Always Be My Baby (Reggae Soul Mix Featuring Lil' Vicious) - 4:53
5. Always Be My Baby (Album Version) - 4:18

US single - (38K 78276):
1. ABMB (Album Version) - (4:18)
2. ABMB (Mr. Dupri Mix) - (4:40)
3. Slipping Away - (4:31)

US (38 78276):
1. Always Be My Baby - (4:18)
2. Long Ago - (4:33)

US:
1. Forever - 4:03
2. Forever (Live) - 4:14
3. Always be my baby (Always club) - 10:26
4. Always be my baby (St dub) - 7:15

This was back when singles were appropriately priced, and you could get a 2-track disc for about a buck (I do remember this). However, her maxis were much more popular, and they cost several dollars more - that was my point.

Anyway,
[Edited 9/5/04 19:23pm]

Tessa said:

oops, i mean that other person was correct. but anyway, it was still the case. singles weren't generally about a buck, but Mariah's were. more and more of them started coming out for about a buck after that, to compete, but even though Mariah's maxis were more popular, it was the 49 and 99 cent gimmick that pushed them over the edge to astronomical sales.