Moonwalkbjrain said:

You can look at it another way:

-CREATIVE artists like Bjork are following more in P's path, doin' their own thing and not giving a shit and still making great music
-COMMERCIAL artists (ie. shitheads like Usher) are following in MJ's footsteps

Now how does that really REFLECT well on MJ? He set the gold standard for pop, and all that's happening is other people are degrading it.

P.S. You're saying you REALLY don't hear the astounding influence Prince has had on modern music?
[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 12:23:54 2004 by VoicesCarry]

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[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 12:35:27 2004 by LightOfArt]

there are both commercial and creative artists are influenced by MJ in different ways
commercial: as u mentioned, usher, justin etc
creative: alicia keys,tarkan etc

and this not my opinion. that's what those people are saying themselves

LightOfArt said:

I don't think Alicia Keys is particularly influenced by Michael. She is also a commercial artist, btw.

P.S. Please post a quote from AK saying this, because her music sounds NOTHING like MJ. She's always given props to Aretha and the great soul singers, NEVER heard her talk about MJ.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 12:35:48 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

2 b honest no i don't hear it...maybe its the people i listen to but i don't hear it..i c ALOT of it wit the whole not givin a fuck and things like that...but i don't hear it.....now my post was about how mike is always gonna be the King Of Pop(ular) music...bjorks not that popular...go out in the street ask who usher is ask who beyonce is...now ask who bjork is...c the difference? as i said mike is the king of pop not the king of not givin a shit.

also i'm not an 80's kid...so it would probly be real hard for me to c the difference princes music has made.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 12:41:30 2004 by Moonwalkbjrain]

Moonwalkbjrain said:

Usher and Beyonce on the whole make shitty music, so that's not really a compliment to Michael. Asking musically illiterate people about Bjork is rather pointless. Ask the people on this BOARD, however.....

I really can't believe you don't see any Prince influence in modern music. That's hilarious. Even Britney (well, the Neptunes, who produced a few of her tracks) is influenced by Prince (ever listened to I'm A Slave 4 U or Boys?)
[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 12:44:33 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

also i'm not an 80's kid...so it would probly be real hard for me to c the difference princes music has made....
also like i have said michael is the king of popular music b it good or bad (2 u altho i do hate beyonce wit a bloody passion so yea that doesn't really compliment michael but everyone doesn't feel like that.) its still popular.

Moonwalkbjrain said:

Well, that's your opinion .

VoicesCarry said:

I cant find it now but she said she's influenced by MJ at TRL.
I dont think she sounds like mj too but MJ doesnt sound like J.Brown does he?

she maybe commercial but she's very talented imo.
you both can be talented AND commercial. Amy Lee maybe a good example for that who said in a recent interview that bowie and mj are her influences.

LightOfArt said:

Alicia Keys is talented, but I was discussing artists who made unique music, like P. AK is not one of those artists. She makes some great wannabe retro soul, but that's about it.

And I really can't take Amy Lee seriously, lol. Do you seriously hear Bowie or MJ in Evanescence? She knows little about music, from what I've heard her say.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 12:51:18 2004 by VoicesCarry]

I remember going on an MJ board to discuss his music and yeah it's totally a different vibe being on one of those boards than on here.

Here we can say "Grafitti Bridge sucked," and people would go "meh, that's your opinion."

However if you go on an MJ board and say "gee i don't like speed demon that much," people would be like "OMG are you fucking crazy, MJ is god, it's the best song ever, get the fuck outta here you hater." IM SERIOUS, that's what it's like. And yes you better not say MJ is guilty on those boards or you will be banned in a second. YOU HAVE TO agree that MJ is innocent, it's a rule!

I personally like MJ's music and videos (except childhood, trying to pull of that peter pan shit)
and i think he is a great talent. BUT i will have to keep my opinions that i think he is way too overrated amongst the MJ posse, as they are too closed minded. I also have my opinions as to his situation of his personal life and relationship with children. I feel it is wrong he sleeps with little boys but if i said that around a "true" MJ fan i would be labelled a hater.

That's the way the MJ fan community works, i've seen it considering my friend forced me to be part of it for a while.

jayaredee said:

Yeah, it can get pretty fascistic sometimes.

VoicesCarry said:

Well, a creative artist like Bjork has always expressed her admiration of MJ. She even wore a dress at an award show with Michael's face on it.
Ian Brown of the Stone Roses has covered many Jackson's songs. Prince himself said during an interview that Michael was a genius.
Alicia Keys sings Never Can Say Goodbye on all of her shows, a song which was previously covered by Isaac Hayes.
Even Marvin Gaye covered a MJ song on his 1976's I Want You album.

Michael's appeal is exceptionnal as he seems to influence as much cutting-edge artists as commercial ones.

VoicesCarry said:

King Of Pop title is not based on opinion, but on popularity which rely on record sales, notoriety, longevity and peers recognition.

VoicesCarry said:

That's an opinion!

- Robbie Williams. A guy who has a couple of catchy songs and who cracks a few weak jokes during his concerts, yet he is perceived the Elvis of the century just because we're in the need of one? There is nothing special about this former boy band backup singer and imo even Gary Barlow is more talented than him.

- Justin Timberlake, overrated both critically for what his talent is, he hasn't done anything groundbraking musically. And he is basically a fusion of Timbaland and Jackson so I can understand why he is popular among people and why they would think he is something big, but he just isn't.

- Usher, mostly for the same reason as above.

- Alicia Keys. I say that she is a very good composer and a singer but the praising she gets from the critics is at least a tad exaggerated. People like Angie Stone and Macy Gray should be up there with her but they don't get even half of the credit she gets.

- Beyonce. She is a good r&b singer but it was like first they hyped Kelly Rowland then forgot her and now they hype Beyonce. Who's next?

- Norah Jones, because there is nothing in her music or her voice that moves me. She seems a nice person though.

And a big amount of chart toppers and fillers, the teen pop stars and the "yay let's play some metal" bands, but they're more in the other cathegory (the critics hate them too).

speeddemon said:

Since those are YOUR criteria, they also constitute YOUR opinion.

speeddemon said:

He was called the King of Pop because he called himself that after Liz Taylor called him that

speeddemon said:

Didn't say it wasn't.

speeddemon said:

Yeah, I'm sure Marvin owes a ton of credit to MJ for that . Maybe they'll even print new editions of The Bible with Jesus giving a shout out to MJ.

P.S. I always thought there was a lot of animosity between Prince and Michael. Prince wouldn't diss him in an interview, but he doesn't exactly revere him in private.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 21 14:24:31 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

Selling 58 million copies of an album, generating tons of #1s between 1969 and 1995, receiving 15 Grammys aren't based on my opinion. There are achievements that validate the title.

speeddemon said:

IN YOUR OPINION. Is that beyond your grasp?

VoicesCarry said:

Voicescarry, you begin to be seriously ridiculous. If you don't want to discuss intelligently, say it!

speeddemon said:

Um, why is that ridiculous? You seem to think everyone owes credit to MJ for something. I was just taking that sentiment to its logical conclusion.

VoicesCarry said:

These are facts, honey, not opinions!

speeddemon said:

The opinion: "There are achievements that validate the title."

VoicesCarry said:

Blinded by the truth, does it hurts, Voices?

speeddemon said:

Sorry, but you're being ridiculous. The King Of Pop title can mean different things to different people. You chose to base it on sales, meaningless awards, etc. Fine. That's your opinion (well, actually, it was Liz Taylor's).

JediMaster said:

Well, yes they may be overrated but how did they ever rip off the Beatles and/or John Lennon?Lyrically, yes, they do "steal" some things from the Beatles but musically I see no resemblance at all. And for a few minutes back in 1995 they were the best band in the world.

rialb said:

I don't know about musical rip-offs, but they were touted as "the NEW Beatles" by the press back in 95.