anybody see the BET Awards this year? Kanye West (Jesus Walks) and the old school hip hop set (slick rick, doug e fresh, public enemy, sugarhill gang, grandmaster flash. mc lyte) got huge props from the audience, whereas Ludacris and Outkast's performances got a tepid response. Old school or new school doesn't matter, it's all in your passion. KW got heavy rotation on all video channels with a video (Jesus Walks) to a song that he says in the song "radio won't play this"...with a klansman carrying a burning cross to boot!!!

meltwithu said:

I also noticed how people like Angela Bassett & Danny Glover barely got applause in the intro when they announce everyone that'll be on BUT every rapper got rousing applause I know there's probably kids in the audience making that noise & that's what they're into but DAMN, people celebrate rappers like they're really DOING something. It's strange, but I guess I'm old

meltwithu said:

I also noticed how people like Angela Bassett & Danny Glover barely got applause in the intro when they announce everyone that'll be on BUT every rapper got rousing applause I know there's probably kids in the audience making that noise & that's what they're into but DAMN, people celebrate rappers like they're really DOING something. It's strange, but I guess I'm old

CalhounSq said:

ok...but you know when you were a kid and the Jackson 5 came on you screamed but when the four tops came on ya momma screams...you just looked at her like...ugh....but she made you dance around with her....



ok...that was me and my kid when slick rick and doug e fresh came on....she was sick....then wanted me to download la di da di...


(ok..I maybe dating myself)

anybody see the BET Awards this year? Kanye West (Jesus Walks) and the old school hip hop set (slick rick, doug e fresh, public enemy, sugarhill gang, grandmaster flash. mc lyte) got huge props from the audience, whereas Ludacris and Outkast's performances got a tepid response. Old school or new school doesn't matter, it's all in your passion. KW got heavy rotation on all video channels with a video (Jesus Walks) to a song that he says in the song "radio won't play this"...with a klansman carrying a burning cross to boot!!!

purplecam said:

Man, that article was so on point it wasn't even funny. I'm with estelle on this one, I look foreward to seeing hip hop as we know it die.

4HisGlory said:

No. No. No. No. "Black people in te ghetto" is a generalization. Are you black or do you live in the ghetto? Well, I am and I do live there. I do not wear namebrand clothes and do not buy them for my children either. I teach my kids that they don't have to be like the negative stereotypes they see around them and in the media.

And if the numbers above are correct and 71% of the hip-hop buying public is white, who's pimpin who?

There's nothing in that article that most of us haven't been saying here all along but what do we do about it? We are all in control of what gets shown in our homes and what doesn't get played on our stereos but there is so much more that can be done. When someone comes out with a decent hip-hop record, no one buys them. Folks talk about music from the old school but when an old school artist releases a record, no one buys it. Teena Marie album has only sold 180,000 copies but some of the newer stuff that's garbage sells millions. We say we want change but ain't nobody doing nothin'. I've written threads and on threads about BET, the NAACP and those threads go wood. BET is not even owned by black people and yet they display the most negative of stereotypes. Why ain't nobody as pissed off as I am about that shit?

4HisGlory said:

are you serious....

so why is it that PEOPLE who don't live in the ghetto and in trailer parks are in debt.....

EVERYONE lives beyond their means....The number one reason for divorce: $$$$$


"keeping up with the jones'" isn't a black/ghetto thing.

Another thing...how do you know where ppl get their clothes from? I had women donate designer clothes to my program and would give them to my clients. So you would be the one to prejudge before you would know anything about that person?



I'm so sick of classism. People act like if you're poor you have no morals and sensibilities and yet we can look those with $$$ and see that they aren't taking care of business either.

Let me clarify...

The whole world is materialistic right now. That's why money makes the world go 'round, but this thread is not about the entire world, it's about the Black community. I care about my community and I gives a damn why people in the suburbs are in debt. I used to teach youth about finances and how important it is to save money. Some of the kids caught on, others were just focused on how much they could spend, not save.

Being poor has nothing to do with morals, believe me I grew up on welfare. I just know that being poor is a cycle, poor parents can't teach their children how to get rich if they don't know themselves. This doesn't mean they don't have morals, they just live the only way they know how. I just really want more people to show Black families that their is another way to live, a better way...and it has nothing to do with "selling out".

Rhondab said:

I'm in line right behind you.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

[color=blue:a4ec2f2bd7]Wondrful thread! Great topic; great discussion, excellent points.
I was going to comment on balance being a factor. I think part of the solution lies in teaching youth to resist the bombardment of media. The difference between generations is that the media overall has become more and more influential in our daily lives. The general idea is to try to devalue some of the concepts and ideas that music & videos instill. Its about establishing balance. It would take a community effort to do this. On the one hand you have to counter nonsense. The difficulty is countering half-truths. Selfish black people play the same games as their lighter-hued counterparts. I caught Damon Dash and Cam'Ron on O'Reily a little while back. They were justifying "hood rap" by saying that what they do by example is teach youths to be CEOs of their own labels and start businesses of their own. Bill attacked the music (typical) and they pretty much busted him out. While I applaud them busting out Bill O'Reilly, the way in which they did it is part of the problem in the community. More black folk know who Damon Dash is than Barack Obamais. Damon isn't even a rapper. He runs a record label. Kids hang on his every word when he speaks, but its like listening to a drug dealer talk about ridding the community of crime. We as a community, hell as a SOCIETY have to bring the balance in. We get capitalism force fed to us daily by the media. Solution: TURN OFF THE DAMN T.V. once in a while and have conversations. Kids don't care about selling out their heritage because they don't value it. They don't value it because we as individuals don't reinforce the importance of the growth of a people and how much more important it is than individual growth and wealth. We need to devalue entertainment in the black community. For real. If we do, more black and minority kids will want to become financial advisors, bankers, doctors, scientists, manufacturers, etc. than rappers and ball players. There is nothing wrong with being a CEO of a record label per se, but knowing theat the music industry is a big game of exploitation could make some consider that there's nothing wrong with being a CEO of a Biotech company, either. The rap "game" on the surface appears to be easy money with minimal "skillz" required. That's the bait. We have to convince each other as well as the youth that in truth it is just that - a game. There is a time for games and a time for progression. I say playtime is over.[/color]

[color=blue:a4ec2f2bd7]Wondrful thread! Great topic; great discussion, excellent points.
I was going to comment on balance being a factor. I think part of the solution lies in teaching youth to resist the bombardment of media. The difference between generations is that the media overall has become more and more influential in our daily lives. The general idea is to try to devalue some of the concepts and ideas that music & videos instill. Its about establishing balance. It would take a community effort to do this. On the one hand you have to counter nonsense. The difficulty is countering half-truths. Selfish black people play the same games as their lighter-hued counterparts. I caught Damon Dash and Cam'Ron on O'Reily a little while back. They were justifying "hood rap" by saying that what they do by example is teach youths to be CEOs of their own labels and start businesses of their own. Bill attacked the music (typical) and they pretty much busted him out. While I applaud them busting out Bill O'Reilly, the way in which they did it is part of the problem in the community. More black folk know who Damon Dash is than Barack Obamais. Damon isn't even a rapper. He runs a record label. Kids hang on his every word when he speaks, but its like listening to a drug dealer talk about ridding the community of crime. We as a community, hell as a SOCIETY have to bring the balance in. We get capitalism force fed to us daily by the media. Solution: TURN OFF THE DAMN T.V. once in a while and have conversations. Kids don't care about selling out their heritage because they don't value it. They don't value it because we as individuals don't reinforce the importance of the growth of a people and how much more important it is than individual growth and wealth. We need to devalue entertainment in the black community. For real. If we do, more black and minority kids will want to become financial advisors, bankers, doctors, scientists, manufacturers, etc. than rappers and ball players. There is nothing wrong with being a CEO of a record label per se, but knowing theat the music industry is a big game of exploitation could make some consider that there's nothing wrong with being a CEO of a Biotech company, either. The rap "game" on the surface appears to be easy money with minimal "skillz" required. That's the bait. We have to convince each other as well as the youth that in truth it is just that - a game. There is a time for games and a time for progression. I say playtime is over.[/color]

Its not hopeless. I think that ppl nowadays just look from the outside and just simply assume nothing can be done. Its time for ppl to get involved in anyway they can. Mentor a child or even an adult who you think is willing to take a look at their situation and make a change but they dont know what/where to go.

well i have to say that this article is so amusing that i had to copy and paste it in an email to everyone on my list. Its funny, but i think this is what Bill Cosby was trying to say, although it came out in an angry and frustrating way. Some people may have taken him the wrong way, but I could understand what he was saying and what this article is saying. I can relate because I did not speak a lot of slang when i was in middle and high school, and I was often labled and trying "to be white" or "talking white". This upset me because, what were they trying to say, that black people couldn't be intelligent? That only white people were allowed to be smart and speak with sense? Its a shame, now even though i'm 21, i still find that some of my peers find it acceptable to act and speak ignorantly just to impress the dummies they have as friends who were too lazy to earn a high school diploma. Its sad, in this day and age, you have to find out things for yourself and have your own mind and spirituality.

Its also a shame that quality hip hop artists who actually have something to say don't get much props, airplay, or recognition at all. We barely get any popularity from Talib Kweli, Common, Mos Def (unless he's in a movie or on Def Poetry), the Roots, Jill Scott, Anthony Hamilton, Bilal, Les Nubians, Dead Prez, Goodie Mob, and the list goes on. These people have a talent that explodes but they never get the recognition they deserve and are very underrated.

...or it was Ed Sullivan. There wasn't a teen-targeted show 'til stuff like American Bandstand...

mochalox said:

Aah, you just swerved into an idea for a thread i'm researching.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

Without a doubt a well written piece.
But it's not telling me anything I didn't already know or feel.
Many of these issues have been out in the open for mass consumption for years by at least a few Spike Lee films (School Daze, Bamboozled, etc.)

Regarding "gangsta rap", the question is what's being done about it by anybody that can make a difference.
The record companies, the 71% which are the major financiers, the 29% which are the minor financiers, parents?

As a consumer, I don't seriously listen to it or purchase it.
As a parent, in my home, I don't allow my kids to listen, purchase or view the videos.
They cannot dress in the extreme "gangsta" styles nor use the associated vernacular.

I've had Kazaa and any similar dl systems removed from all computers in my house.

For many, aspiring to be a rap star is the new easy way out "game", equivalent to the old-school pimp or newer-school drug dealer. The path of least resistance if you will, meaning no formal education or legitimate marketable skills required.

For those that adhere to the MAN is keeping me down b.s.:
There is no MAN that keeps you from going to school when you're supposed to.
There is no MAN that makes you waste productive time hanging out "on the corner".
There is no MAN that makes you foolishly believe you have to "protect a 'hood/turf" where the structure you live in you don't even own. (I'm sure your landlord appreciates your vigilance)
There is no MAN that makes you wear your pants around your kneecaps.
(If someone could explain the logic behind this style i'd really appreciate it)
There is no MAN that makes you remain ignorant under the thinly disguised phoney veil of "keepin' it real".
There is no MAN giving out awards for the number of times you can rack up "my baby daddy" points from different women.
There is no MAN that makes you justified in killing or maiming another brother/sister for some real or imagined "dis".

THERE IS NO MAN...GET OVER IT!

Am I say that there's no racism still in America? No.
What I am saying is that it doesn't exist to the point that some people use it as an excuse for justifying their lack of achievement.

As to the music industry and their part in all of this, IMO this just shows how lazy and greedy they continue to be. With the recent merger of SONY (Colombia, Epic, Legacy)/BMG (Arista, RCA, J, Jive, LaFace), the record industry has just tightened the death grip they have on what music gets mainstream promotion. This also shrinks what was 5 major companies down to 4. The noose just got tighter.

For those of you hoping for "the day that Clear Channel is overthrown" as part of a solution, while I share your sentiments, here's a link to an article on the record industry and Clear Channel's connection to it that indicates they may have only just begun.
http://www.oligopolywatch...music.html

Sorry for ranting, but for musical and sociological reasons this subject has disturbed me for quite some time.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm