Alicia Keys always gets touted as the second coming of Stevie Wonder what with her retro feel and supposedly deft skills at songwriting. But I was shocked when I found out from my brother that one of my favorite tracks from her album "Songs..." called "My Life" was a sample. Rumor has it all but 4 tracks from the 16 from that album are samples. Of course her why-bother remake of "How Come You Don't Call Me" is just that, a remake. "You Don't Know My Name" is a sample. The intro to "Diary of..." is a sample. Piano parts she plays are many times other people's work.


So with Alicia's penchant for "borrowing" works from other people, how did Clive Davis manage to boost her rep with this "genius" tag?

CynicKill said:

Because so many people don't know a sample when they hear it. There are tons of folks out there who still think "Fallin'" was totally original.
P.S. I like Alicia, but the second coming of Stevie she ain't.

I agree that she is a tad overrated as a songwriter but I think you are overstating how much she samples. Check the credits and if possible track down the songs she does sample. That should give you an idea of what she wrote and what was sampled.

OdysseyMiles said:

I understand what you're saying. I too was one of those that didn't know "Fallin'" was a sample, until I heard the original one night. I was a little disappointed. That and the fact that the original is a better song. Still like "Fallin'" but...

And she is touted as the secong coming of Stevie Wonder, not directly but...

rialb said:

Yeah I hear you, though I did stress that "rumor had it." My fault.

CynicKill said:

Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant. Are you saying there is a rumor that she used some samples without permission? If that's true and it comes out she could be in big trouble.

No not without permission just that she uses more samples then a would be Stevie Wonder.

CynicKill said:

So what is the original song?Can i have the name of the song and the performer please?

camilleisfunky said:

"This Is A Man's World," James Brown

camilleisfunky said:

"It's a Mans Mans Mans World" by James Brown.

Hey, y'all. I got the booklet to Songs In A Minor right in front of me and there are zero samples listed. The song "Girlfriend" lists an interpolation of the song "Brooklyn Zoo" but that's it. Where are you getting your info? Particularly regarding "Fallin'" and James Brown's "It's A Man's, Man's, Man's World"?

rialb said:

eff the credits, just listen: http://217.158.65.109/ASF...-01-22.wma (WMA version) or http://217.158.65.110/MP3...-01-22.mp3 (MP3 version).

mochalox said:

That's funny, I have both songs but never made the connection. She definitely copped the melody. Maybe James should sue her ass. I'm sure he could use the money to pay his legal fees.

LMAO at the title of this thread.

And what "new" artist these days hasn't sampled something from someone else. If you listen closely you can hear the old school in quite a number of "newer" songs. What is so sad is alot of the younger generations don't know the original artists!

But no matter what you say Alicia ROCKS!!

rialb said:

right!
I can see it now:

James said:

But the bigger question is: is anyone in James' camp smart enough to jump on this perfect opp?

rialb said:

Listen to "Fallin'". Listen to "It's A Man's Man's Man's World". The conclusion is clear.

She probably got permission to interpolate to song, she just didn't list it in the credits. I noticed that she didn't quote Beetoven in the intro either, though he might be free of the copywrite statute which I believe is what, 70 years?

Did she write, "If I Ain't Got You"? I've met more than one person who has said that they had heard this song years before Alicia was even signed.




This is the exact reason why I look at people sideways when they say that one of these newbie artists is talented or the next Micheal, Stevie, Madonna, Prince, etc.... Uhh, yeah, okay? Didn't all those artists actually have songs that didn't rely heavily on samples? Talent my ass, who can't throw some lyrics to a song that's already been made for you. That's like someone baking the cake for you and all you have to do is put the icing on top....sooo difficult

estelle1981 said:

I like that observation. Very well put.

estelle1981 said:

"If I Ain't Got You" is possibly an old song? I love that song but I was just assuming she was fulfilling her Aretha jones again.

rialb said:

It just bothers me that soo many people like to throw around titles like "musican", "artist", etc. That's like me calling someone who is really good a connect-the-dots an artist and putting him or her in the same category as Dali, Van Gogh, or Picasso. It's disturbing and insulting. I do agree, that Alicia deserves the artist title more than 90% of the newbies out there now, but she damn sure ain't no musician if she has to sample other people's stuff...sorry, but I call it as I see it.

This thread reminds me of Brian McKnight stealing MeShell Ndegeocello's "Outside Your Door" and going mega-platinum with it for the song "Anytime".

CynicKill said:

i like her. but she aint no stevie. and damn sure aint no genious. shes just a bit different. black chick playin piano doin her thang and good @ it. its different. thats y she gets compared to stevie cuz she black and plays piano. just like the jimi hendrix/prince comparisons and the andre/prince comparisons. they black and play instruments and r good @ it.

The sad thing is...much of today's R&B songs are based on samples,in some form or another.Everytime you hear a half-way decent R&B song these days,chances are that it's based on a sample of some Old School track.There was a time when only the rappers used samples,but nowadays,every other R&B act is jumping on that bandwagon.I honestly don't know why an artist like Alicia Keys (who can actually play an instrument) feels the need to use samples in her music.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 5 1:46:52 2004 by DavidEye]

psykosoul said:

HOLY SHIT!!! I never made that connection before but you're right!!

DAMN YOU, MCKNIGHT!!!

DavidEye said:

Because she's lazy and perhaps not all that good at crafting melody, hooks, etc.?

My favorite track on "Songs In A Minor" is a song called "Troubles". But I swear the piano part is not original. Not that Alicia isn't playing the actual part but that it's borrowed (It could be called another form of sampling but another word would be stealing). Now I'm not being too fair to Alicia because I don't in fact know if the piano to "Troubles" is sampled, but can anyone help me out here. Is it a sample.

Also "Me Myself and I" by Beyonce is the jam. Easily one of the best tracks from "Dangerously In Love", but that track is too good to be thought up by any new producer on the market. That's me being cynical but just look out there. Is this also a sample? Does anybody know?

CynicKill said:

-----
I don't know about Me Myself and I but " You Don't Know My Name" is an old song by the Main Ingrediant.

CynicKill said:

I don't know about "Me Myself And I".

Alicia is one of those artists who steals JUST ENOUGH to avoid crediting a sample in the liner notes. But if you've heard enough music, you'll know when she's lifted something.

"It's a traditional quote. No credit required. You can check it with my lawyer."
[This message was edited Fri Aug 6 17:13:30 2004 by VoicesCarry]