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Thread started 08/03/04 11:05am

CynicKill

Alicia Keys: Sample-happy whore?

Alicia Keys always gets touted as the second coming of Stevie Wonder what with her retro feel and supposedly deft skills at songwriting. But I was shocked when I found out from my brother that one of my favorite tracks from her album "Songs..." called "My Life" was a sample. Rumor has it all but 4 tracks from the 16 from that album are samples. Of course her why-bother remake of "How Come You Don't Call Me" is just that, a remake. "You Don't Know My Name" is a sample. The intro to "Diary of..." is a sample. Piano parts she plays are many times other people's work.


So with Alicia's penchant for "borrowing" works from other people, how did Clive Davis manage to boost her rep with this "genius" tag?
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Reply #1 posted 08/03/04 11:09am

OdysseyMiles

CynicKill said:

Alicia Keys always gets touted as the second coming of Stevie Wonder what with her retro feel and supposedly deft skills at songwriting. But I was shocked when I found out from my brother that one of my favorite tracks from her album "Songs..." called "My Life" was a sample. Rumor has it all but 4 tracks from the 16 from that album are samples. Of course her why-bother remake of "How Come You Don't Call Me" is just that, a remake. "You Don't Know My Name" is a sample. The intro to "Diary of..." is a sample. Piano parts she plays are many times other people's work.


So with Alicia's penchant for "borrowing" works from other people, how did Clive Davis manage to boost her rep with this "genius" tag?


Because so many people don't know a sample when they hear it. There are tons of folks out there who still think "Fallin'" was totally original.
P.S. I like Alicia, but the second coming of Stevie she ain't. disbelief
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Reply #2 posted 08/03/04 11:10am

rialb

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I agree that she is a tad overrated as a songwriter but I think you are overstating how much she samples. Check the credits and if possible track down the songs she does sample. That should give you an idea of what she wrote and what was sampled.
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Reply #3 posted 08/03/04 11:14am

CynicKill

OdysseyMiles said:

CynicKill said:

Alicia Keys always gets touted as the second coming of Stevie Wonder what with her retro feel and supposedly deft skills at songwriting. But I was shocked when I found out from my brother that one of my favorite tracks from her album "Songs..." called "My Life" was a sample. Rumor has it all but 4 tracks from the 16 from that album are samples. Of course her why-bother remake of "How Come You Don't Call Me" is just that, a remake. "You Don't Know My Name" is a sample. The intro to "Diary of..." is a sample. Piano parts she plays are many times other people's work.


So with Alicia's penchant for "borrowing" works from other people, how did Clive Davis manage to boost her rep with this "genius" tag?


Because so many people don't know a sample when they hear it. There are tons of folks out there who still think "Fallin'" was totally original.
P.S. I like Alicia, but the second coming of Stevie she ain't. disbelief



I understand what you're saying. I too was one of those that didn't know "Fallin'" was a sample, until I heard the original one night. I was a little disappointed. That and the fact that the original is a better song. Still like "Fallin'" but...

And she is touted as the secong coming of Stevie Wonder, not directly but...
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Reply #4 posted 08/03/04 11:16am

CynicKill

rialb said:

I agree that she is a tad overrated as a songwriter but I think you are overstating how much she samples. Check the credits and if possible track down the songs she does sample. That should give you an idea of what she wrote and what was sampled.



Yeah I hear you, though I did stress that "rumor had it." My fault.
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Reply #5 posted 08/03/04 11:42am

rialb

avatar

CynicKill said:

rialb said:

I agree that she is a tad overrated as a songwriter but I think you are overstating how much she samples. Check the credits and if possible track down the songs she does sample. That should give you an idea of what she wrote and what was sampled.



Yeah I hear you, though I did stress that "rumor had it." My fault.


Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant. Are you saying there is a rumor that she used some samples without permission? If that's true and it comes out she could be in big trouble.
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Reply #6 posted 08/03/04 11:47am

CynicKill

No not without permission just that she uses more samples then a would be Stevie Wonder.
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Reply #7 posted 08/03/04 12:24pm

camilleisfunky

CynicKill said:



I too was one of those that didn't know "Fallin'" was a sample, until I heard the original one night. I was a little disappointed. That and the fact that the original is a better song. Still like "Fallin'" but...

So what is the original song?Can i have the name of the song and the performer please?
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Reply #8 posted 08/03/04 12:27pm

mochalox

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camilleisfunky said:

CynicKill said:



I too was one of those that didn't know "Fallin'" was a sample, until I heard the original one night. I was a little disappointed. That and the fact that the original is a better song. Still like "Fallin'" but...

So what is the original song?Can i have the name of the song and the performer please?

"This Is A Man's World," James Brown
"Pedro offers you his protection."
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Reply #9 posted 08/03/04 12:27pm

CynicKill

camilleisfunky said:

CynicKill said:



I too was one of those that didn't know "Fallin'" was a sample, until I heard the original one night. I was a little disappointed. That and the fact that the original is a better song. Still like "Fallin'" but...

So what is the original song?Can i have the name of the song and the performer please?




"It's a Mans Mans Mans World" by James Brown.
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Reply #10 posted 08/04/04 6:50am

rialb

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Hey, y'all. I got the booklet to Songs In A Minor right in front of me and there are zero samples listed. The song "Girlfriend" lists an interpolation of the song "Brooklyn Zoo" but that's it. Where are you getting your info? Particularly regarding "Fallin'" and James Brown's "It's A Man's, Man's, Man's World"?
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Reply #11 posted 08/04/04 7:40am

mochalox

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rialb said:

Hey, y'all. I got the booklet to Songs In A Minor right in front of me and there are zero samples listed. The song "Girlfriend" lists an interpolation of the song "Brooklyn Zoo" but that's it. Where are you getting your info? Particularly regarding "Fallin'" and James Brown's "It's A Man's, Man's, Man's World"?

eff the credits, just listen: http://217.158.65.109/ASF...-01-22.wma (WMA version) or http://217.158.65.110/MP3...-01-22.mp3 (MP3 version).
"Pedro offers you his protection."
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Reply #12 posted 08/04/04 9:13am

rialb

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mochalox said:

rialb said:

Hey, y'all. I got the booklet to Songs In A Minor right in front of me and there are zero samples listed. The song "Girlfriend" lists an interpolation of the song "Brooklyn Zoo" but that's it. Where are you getting your info? Particularly regarding "Fallin'" and James Brown's "It's A Man's, Man's, Man's World"?

eff the credits, just listen: http://217.158.65.109/ASF...-01-22.wma (WMA version) or http://217.158.65.110/MP3...-01-22.mp3 (MP3 version).


That's funny, I have both songs but never made the connection. She definitely copped the melody. Maybe James should sue her ass. I'm sure he could use the money to pay his legal fees.
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Reply #13 posted 08/04/04 9:20am

minneapolisgen
ius

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LMAO at the title of this thread. falloff
"I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven
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Reply #14 posted 08/04/04 9:22am

DarlinLaurie

And what "new" artist these days hasn't sampled something from someone else. If you listen closely you can hear the old school in quite a number of "newer" songs. What is so sad is alot of the younger generations don't know the original artists!

But no matter what you say Alicia ROCKS!! razz
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Reply #15 posted 08/04/04 11:10am

mochalox

avatar

rialb said:

mochalox said:


eff the credits, just listen: http://217.158.65.109/ASF...-01-22.wma (WMA version) or http://217.158.65.110/MP3...-01-22.mp3 (MP3 version).


That's funny, I have both songs but never made the connection. She definitely copped the melody. Maybe James should sue her ass. I'm sure he could use the money to pay his legal fees.

right!
I can see it now:

James said:

Get me Cochran on the red line, stat!



But the bigger question is: is anyone in James' camp smart enough to jump on this perfect opp?
"Pedro offers you his protection."
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Reply #16 posted 08/04/04 11:17am

VoicesCarry

rialb said:

Hey, y'all. I got the booklet to Songs In A Minor right in front of me and there are zero samples listed. The song "Girlfriend" lists an interpolation of the song "Brooklyn Zoo" but that's it. Where are you getting your info? Particularly regarding "Fallin'" and James Brown's "It's A Man's, Man's, Man's World"?


Listen to "Fallin'". Listen to "It's A Man's Man's Man's World". The conclusion is clear.
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Reply #17 posted 08/04/04 11:19am

CynicKill

She probably got permission to interpolate to song, she just didn't list it in the credits. I noticed that she didn't quote Beetoven in the intro either, though he might be free of the copywrite statute which I believe is what, 70 years?
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Reply #18 posted 08/04/04 12:24pm

estelle1981

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Did she write, "If I Ain't Got You"? I've met more than one person who has said that they had heard this song years before Alicia was even signed.


And what "new" artist these days hasn't sampled something from someone else. If you listen closely you can hear the old school in quite a number of "newer" songs.


This is the exact reason why I look at people sideways when they say that one of these newbie artists is talented or the next Micheal, Stevie, Madonna, Prince, etc.... eek Uhh, yeah, okay? Didn't all those artists actually have songs that didn't rely heavily on samples? Talent my ass, who can't throw some lyrics to a song that's already been made for you. That's like someone baking the cake for you and all you have to do is put the icing on top....sooo difficult rolleyes
SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE"
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Reply #19 posted 08/04/04 12:54pm

rialb

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estelle1981 said:

Talent my ass, who can't throw some lyrics to a song that's already been made for you. That's like someone baking the cake for you and all you have to do is put the icing on top....sooo difficult rolleyes


I like that observation. Very well put.clapping
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Reply #20 posted 08/04/04 4:05pm

CynicKill

estelle1981 said:

Did she write, "If I Ain't Got You"? I've met more than one person who has said that they had heard this song years before Alicia was even signed.


And what "new" artist these days hasn't sampled something from someone else. If you listen closely you can hear the old school in quite a number of "newer" songs.


This is the exact reason why I look at people sideways when they say that one of these newbie artists is talented or the next Micheal, Stevie, Madonna, Prince, etc.... eek Uhh, yeah, okay? Didn't all those artists actually have songs that didn't rely heavily on samples? Talent my ass, who can't throw some lyrics to a song that's already been made for you. That's like someone baking the cake for you and all you have to do is put the icing on top....sooo difficult rolleyes



"If I Ain't Got You" is possibly an old song? I love that song but I was just assuming she was fulfilling her Aretha jones again.
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Reply #21 posted 08/04/04 8:55pm

estelle1981

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rialb said:

estelle1981 said:

Talent my ass, who can't throw some lyrics to a song that's already been made for you. That's like someone baking the cake for you and all you have to do is put the icing on top....sooo difficult rolleyes


I like that observation. Very well put.clapping


It just bothers me that soo many people like to throw around titles like "musican", "artist", etc. That's like me calling someone who is really good a connect-the-dots an artist and putting him or her in the same category as Dali, Van Gogh, or Picasso. It's disturbing and insulting. I do agree, that Alicia deserves the artist title more than 90% of the newbies out there now, but she damn sure ain't no musician if she has to sample other people's stuff...sorry, but I call it as I see it.
SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE"
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Reply #22 posted 08/04/04 9:57pm

psykosoul

This thread reminds me of Brian McKnight stealing MeShell Ndegeocello's "Outside Your Door" and going mega-platinum with it for the song "Anytime".
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Reply #23 posted 08/04/04 11:40pm

Moonwalkbjrain

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CynicKill said:

Alicia Keys always gets touted as the second coming of Stevie Wonder what with her retro feel and supposedly deft skills at songwriting. But I was shocked when I found out from my brother that one of my favorite tracks from her album "Songs..." called "My Life" was a sample. Rumor has it all but 4 tracks from the 16 from that album are samples. Of course her why-bother remake of "How Come You Don't Call Me" is just that, a remake. "You Don't Know My Name" is a sample. The intro to "Diary of..." is a sample. Piano parts she plays are many times other people's work.


So with Alicia's penchant for "borrowing" works from other people, how did Clive Davis manage to boost her rep with this "genius" tag?


i like her. but she aint no stevie. and damn sure aint no genious. shes just a bit different. black chick playin piano doin her thang and good @ it. its different. thats y she gets compared to stevie cuz she black and plays piano. just like the jimi hendrix/prince comparisons and the andre/prince comparisons. they black and play instruments and r good @ it.
Yesterday is dead...tomorrow hasnt arrived yet....i have just ONE day...
...And i'm gonna be groovy in it!
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Reply #24 posted 08/05/04 1:46am

DavidEye

The sad thing is...much of today's R&B songs are based on samples,in some form or another.Everytime you hear a half-way decent R&B song these days,chances are that it's based on a sample of some Old School track.There was a time when only the rappers used samples,but nowadays,every other R&B act is jumping on that bandwagon.I honestly don't know why an artist like Alicia Keys (who can actually play an instrument) feels the need to use samples in her music.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 5 1:46:52 2004 by DavidEye]
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Reply #25 posted 08/05/04 2:34am

CalhounSq

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psykosoul said:

This thread reminds me of Brian McKnight stealing MeShell Ndegeocello's "Outside Your Door" and going mega-platinum with it for the song "Anytime".


HOLY SHIT!!! omfg I never made that connection before but you're right!!

DAMN YOU, MCKNIGHT!!! stab chair disbelief
heart prince I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it prince heart
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Reply #26 posted 08/06/04 5:01pm

VoicesCarry

DavidEye said:

The sad thing is...much of today's R&B songs are based on samples,in some form or another.Everytime you hear a half-way decent R&B song these days,chances are that it's based on a sample of some Old School track.There was a time when only the rappers used samples,but nowadays,every other R&B act is jumping on that bandwagon.I honestly don't know why an artist like Alicia Keys (who can actually play an instrument) feels the need to use samples in her music.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 5 1:46:52 2004 by DavidEye]


Because she's lazy and perhaps not all that good at crafting melody, hooks, etc.?
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Reply #27 posted 08/06/04 5:08pm

CynicKill

My favorite track on "Songs In A Minor" is a song called "Troubles". But I swear the piano part is not original. Not that Alicia isn't playing the actual part but that it's borrowed (It could be called another form of sampling but another word would be stealing). Now I'm not being too fair to Alicia because I don't in fact know if the piano to "Troubles" is sampled, but can anyone help me out here. Is it a sample.

Also "Me Myself and I" by Beyonce is the jam. Easily one of the best tracks from "Dangerously In Love", but that track is too good to be thought up by any new producer on the market. That's me being cynical but just look out there. Is this also a sample? Does anybody know?
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Reply #28 posted 08/06/04 5:12pm

laurarichardso
n

CynicKill said:

My favorite track on "Songs In A Minor" is a song called "Troubles". But I swear the piano part is not original. Not that Alicia isn't playing the actual part but that it's borrowed (It could be called another form of sampling but another word would be stealing). Now I'm not being too fair to Alicia because I don't in fact know if the piano to "Troubles" is sampled, but can anyone help me out here. Is it a sample.

Also "Me Myself and I" by Beyonce is the jam. Easily one of the best tracks from "Dangerously In Love", but that track is too good to be thought up by any new producer on the market. That's me being cynical but just look out there. Is this also a sample? Does anybody know?

-----
I don't know about Me Myself and I but " You Don't Know My Name" is an old song by the Main Ingrediant.
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Reply #29 posted 08/06/04 5:12pm

VoicesCarry

CynicKill said:

My favorite track on "Songs In A Minor" is a song called "Troubles". But I swear the piano part is not original. Not that Alicia isn't playing the actual part but that it's borrowed (It could be called another form of sampling but another word would be stealing). Now I'm not being too fair to Alicia because I don't in fact know if the piano to "Troubles" is sampled, but can anyone help me out here. Is it a sample.

Also "Me Myself and I" by Beyonce is the jam. Easily one of the best tracks from "Dangerously In Love", but that track is too good to be thought up by any new producer on the market. That's me being cynical but just look out there. Is this also a sample? Does anybody know?


I don't know about "Me Myself And I".

Alicia is one of those artists who steals JUST ENOUGH to avoid crediting a sample in the liner notes. But if you've heard enough music, you'll know when she's lifted something.

"It's a traditional quote. No credit required. You can check it with my lawyer."
[This message was edited Fri Aug 6 17:13:30 2004 by VoicesCarry]
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