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DavidEye said: CynicKill said: I went to see Madonna in Toronto last night. BTW Toronto is a wonderful city and I wouldn't mind living there if I had a MBA and one of the nice condos overlooking the city but I digress. Anyways I was at the show, and I'm the type of person who can enjoy a concert even if it's sub-par. I like the energy of the crowd and the "event" in general. That being said Madonna gave her all but to me only rose to the occasion once (During her great performance of a song called "Nothing Fails"). I was rapt with attention. Her, her guitar and her back-up singers sitting and doing justice to a really good song. But everything else felt like a video. And since I don't watch videos anymore then didn't quite set well with me. I mean the show was good but definitely not great. And it's historical because it was my first and only time to see her. Prince is performing there next week and I have to kill for tickets for a show that's supposed to be sold out. When Maddy did "Like a Prayer" it was so pedestrian all I could think of was "I wonder what Prince could do with this song live". Didn't Prince do a version of this song or have something to do with it's production? It's definitely influenced by him I believe. Madonna's reworkings of past hits are NOTHING like what I hear Prince is doing. Is my criticism of Madonna's live show fair?
I mean no offense,but I have to ask,did you go to the Madonna concert for the sole purpose of comparing it to a Prince show? I ask this question bceause I've seen posts by other folks on this site who went to see Madonna,and they always feel the need to say things like "It wasn't as good as Prince's concert" or "Madonna is not about the music".I just don't get it.The "comparsion game" is silly and childish and totally irrelevent.Madonna is Madonna.Prince is Prince.It's absurd to expect a Madonna concert to be what a Prince concert is,and vice versa.Besides,Madonna is not interested in doing a regular "concert" anyway.She has said repeatedly that,when she does a tour,she does things that she herself would like to see a performer do onstage.She's not into the typical concert experience.Her concerts are theatrical,dramatic and very Broadway-ish,and it's been this way ever since the 'Blond Ambition' tour in 1990.You already knew this,and yet you still find it necessary to attend one of her shows? Seems to me you should have saved your money. "I don't see the point of doing a show unless you offer something that is going to mind-boggle the senses.It's not enough to get onstage and sing a song.It's all about theatre and drama and suspense" The next time Madonna does a tour,remember that above statement.She makes it very clear what to expect at her shows.Save your money and go see Prince instead. The arrangement went something like this, I had the car, my friend supplied the ticket. I never saw Madonna and I was a huge fan from 83-94. I mean HUGE. I loved her "Girlie Show" on TV. So if I didn't get what I was expecting then I'm sorry. At the toronto show it was pretty hard to escape Prince. On the way to the venue they had all these Prince posters in this tunnel leading to the event. He's going to be there next week. Inside they had this advert for the Prince show. Two women were discussing it in front of us in line. And I'm a huge fan. So when she did "Like A Prayer" like I said before it just popped into my head why did it lack energy or lack of inspiration. It's one of her better songs. I'm tempted to label it a classic. So no it wasn't my sole purpose to be disappointed or compare it to a completely different artists. Then again, if I didn't have the free ticket it's a safe bet I probably wouldn't have gone up there to begin with so maybe you got me. *shrug* [This message was edited Fri Jul 23 9:47:44 2004 by CynicKill] |
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GrayKing said: CynicKill said:  whoever wrote that sure has a lot of anger and bitterness to spread around. anyway, here's the article, since you're too lazy to paste it, or you're getting paid for the ad-hits:
We were going to write a big, long article on why Madonna, appearing June 2 and 3 at the Arrowhead Pond, is a tired pop icon whose image flip-flops and running life commentary bug like a nasty horsefly biting your tender ass—but we thought we’d spare you. Instead, we decided to list the 21 reasons Madonna needs to retire. We picked the number 21 because that’s how many years the Material Egomaniac has been subjecting us to every detail of the worst reality show ever created: her life. 1. Her name/image irony. Only a retard couldn’t conceptualize the marketing ploy of being a slutty Virgin Mary. And what about all those civilian Madonnas out there, who really are Italian—and not half-French-Canadian? Think of how stigmatized they’ve been—just like people named "Dick" or "Whitney Houston." 2. "Papa Don’t Preach." Her first attempt to address an issue other than feeling touched for the very first time. Clearly, she had been touched a lot, but her pro-baby mantra to the teen population was the antithesis of the feminism she seemed to advocate. The chorus should have been: "I’m aborting my baby, ooh . . . yeah . . ." 3. Her mother died when she was five and her father was cold and emotionally unavailable. BOO-FUCKING-HOO—we know already! Try visiting a foster home in Compton sometime—or an estate in Corona del Mar—where kids have their asses beat daily. 4. Asked Michael Jackson to the Academy Awards. Whether she really tried to seduce the half-woman Pedophile of Pop—okay, alleged pedophile—is better left unknown. But using Michael to get even more media attention is like, well, Michael using Lisa Marie Presley to prove he’s straight and Nicolas Cage using Lisa Marie to have Elvis babies. Sick. 5. Had sex with Warren Beatty. Fingers, meet our throats. 6. Divorced Sean Penn. He hit her. Not hard enough. 7. The True Blue, Music and American Life albums: filling the used-CD bins at a record store near you. 8. The Sex book. Wow. Madonna not just nearly naked, but totally naked! Yawn. And thankfully out-of-print. 9. Her children’s books. Now that she’s better than us because she doesn’t give blowjobs to basketball players anymore and has kids and is English and stuff, she thinks she can teach our kids valuable life lessons such as the "don’t hate me because I’m beautiful—I live with my mean daddy and my mommy is dead" theme of The English Roses and the "mean words hurt" theme of Mr. Peabody’s Apples. Oh, wait, these books—by a woman who has viciously ragged on everyone imaginable—aren’t about teaching your kids valuable lessons; they’re about Madonna being a big fucking hypocrite and feeding us her pitiful life story—again! 10. Friends with Rosie O’Donnell. 11.Tongued Britney Spears. A woman old enough to be a girl’s mother sucks her tonsils out on cable television. It was so passionate, so sexy, so . . . barfingly Species. 12. Her movies and "stage" work. Just stop. 13. Truth or Dare. Contrived, stupid and completely annoying. And she gave that simp Kevin Costner free tickets to her show? 14. Plagiarism. Madonna has never created an original look or sound. Like an exploitive, sneaky, capitalist pig, she snorts around the inner-city streets, stealing fashion and moves from the black man. And the gay man. And the black gay man. Critics who like her proclaim she knows "what Americans want." People without their heads up their asses know she didn’t invent crucifixes, materialism, electronic synthesizers, Fritz Lang movies, Marilyn Monroe, riding in limos with prostitutes, cowboy hats or running people over with sports cars. She did invent that microphone headset, however, and we’re still waiting for her to bail and choke on it. 15. Has said profound things like: "A lot of people are afraid to say what they want. That’s why they don’t get what they want"; "Better to live one year as a tiger than a hundred as a sheep"; and "I am my own experiment. I am my own work of art." Welcome to the vomitorium. 16. That Kabbalah business. Again, she thinks we care. Pity the Jews, many of whom, no thanks to Maddy, probably converted to Scientology. 17. Thinks that people call her a bitch because she’s a successful woman who knows what she wants. Correction: people call her a bitch because she tries to kick English nature hikers off the outer 100 acres of her 1,200-acre estate in the U.K. by reclassifying it as "gaming land." Most paparazzi don’t own 23 million-foot telephoto lenses, you dumb BITCH. But have fun shooting Bambi—and the occasional Scottish birder. 18. Set gay civil rights back 20 years with Justify My Love, Erotica, the Sex book and sleeping with Sandra Bernhard’s girlfriend by showing the straight population that homosexuality is clearly both a choice and about S&M. Thanks. 19. None of her hit songs have stood the test of time. Would it really be worse listening to Ann Coulter talk about vaginal itching and burning than hearing "Express Yourself," "Vogue" or "Beautiful Stranger" again? No, it would not. 20. Bazillions of websites claim this millionaire is a humanitarian, but you’d be hard-pressed to prove it. Oh, wait, she did give the American Foundation for AIDS Research FOUR TICKETS to her Drowned World Tour to be auctioned off, raising a whopping $22,000. How about donating all of even ONE of your concert proceeds to America’s schools? How about not charging $300 a head for idiot fans to watch your Skeletor body skank around the stage to yet another reworked version of "Holiday"? Now that’s charitable. 21. Takes herself way too seriously. Back in the ’80s, she was a little guarded, but she was kinda fun! How often does the "diva" crack a smile these days? Like never. She clearly does care what we think about her, and her random, wacky image changes reek of desperation. Her gaze is filled with insecurity, and her personal comments, which she is never at a loss for, tell us she never regrets her past yet distances herself from it because she’s all maternal, but she’s still cool, but more reserved, but still into shock, blah, blah, blah. Look—just admit you’re persnickety and that some of your stuff majorly sucked, and then parlay your current "talents" into an adult medium like popular standards. After all, you ain’t no Cher—but she could give you some humility lessons. but hey, you know what? i couldn't have given you 21 better reasons that i absolutely fucking love her!  You were right the first time, I'm too lazy. |
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CynicKill said: DavidEye said: I mean no offense,but I have to ask,did you go to the Madonna concert for the sole purpose of comparing it to a Prince show? I ask this question bceause I've seen posts by other folks on this site who went to see Madonna,and they always feel the need to say things like "It wasn't as good as Prince's concert" or "Madonna is not about the music".I just don't get it.The "comparsion game" is silly and childish and totally irrelevent.Madonna is Madonna.Prince is Prince.It's absurd to expect a Madonna concert to be what a Prince concert is,and vice versa.Besides,Madonna is not interested in doing a regular "concert" anyway.She has said repeatedly that,when she does a tour,she does things that she herself would like to see a performer do onstage.She's not into the typical concert experience.Her concerts are theatrical,dramatic and very Broadway-ish,and it's been this way ever since the 'Blond Ambition' tour in 1990.You already knew this,and yet you still find it necessary to attend one of her shows? Seems to me you should have saved your money. "I don't see the point of doing a show unless you offer something that is going to mind-boggle the senses.It's not enough to get onstage and sing a song.It's all about theatre and drama and suspense" The next time Madonna does a tour,remember that above statement.She makes it very clear what to expect at her shows.Save your money and go see Prince instead. The arrangement went something like this, I had the car, my friend supplied the ticket. I never saw Madonna and I was a huge fan from 83-94. I mean HUGE. I loved her "Girlie Show" on TV. So if I didn't get what I was expecting then I'm sorry. At the toronto show it was pretty hard to escape Prince. On the way to the venue they had all these Prince posters in this tunnel leading to the event. He's going to be there next week. Inside they had this advert for the Prince show. Two women were discussing it in front of us in line. And I'm a hufe fan. So when she did "Like A Prayer" like I said before it just popped into my head why it did it lack energy or lack of inspiration. It's one of her better songs. I'm tempted to label it a classic. So no it wasn't my sole purpose to be disappointed or compare it to a completely different artists. Then again, if I didn't have the free ticket it's a safe bet I probably wouldn't have gone up there to begin with so maybe you got me. *shrug* Hey, it was free. I'd go see Britney Spears if someone handed me some free tickets, just because it's something to do and I might be bored....on second thought, no I wouldn't. But, I would have put those babies on Ebay and gotten some money off of them. But, I was never a Brit fan, so  . I did love me some Madonna back in the day, and since this is a hits tour, I would have gone too if I had free tickets. Now, if it was a tour on just "American Life." I would have given the tickets back.SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE" | |
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LightOfArt said: SassyBritches said: its never healthy to compare ANYONE to prince or vice versa. nonetheless, since you've already gone there, i think the only prince tour that is even comparable to the re-invention tour was lovesexy '88. yes, prince's performances are better than madonna's but you are comparing a musician, composer, producer, arranger, singer to one who is not. you are also comparing someone who uses spectacle as an art form to someone who does not. apples and oranges. and niether have reached their expiriation date as far as i'm concerned u said perfectly except madonna cowrites and produces most of her stuff. and has written some songs all by her self i know she has. but she has worked with many producers, writers, arrangers, musicians, etc. throughout the years whereas prince has handled most of that himself. i was just saying to compare the two is not such a wise thing. | |
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re DavidEye
Besides,Madonna is not interested in doing a regular "concert" anyway.She has said repeatedly that,when she does a tour,she does things that she herself would like to see a performer do onstage.She's not into the typical concert experience.Her concerts are theatrical,dramatic and very Broadway-ish,and it's been this way ever since the 'Blond Ambition' tour in 1990. Maybe this is the problem. Maybe trying to do something so theatrical and Broadway-ish, in such a huge venue just gets swallowed up whole. Unless you're extraordinary. [This message was edited Fri Jul 23 10:36:38 2004 by CynicKill] |
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CynicKill said: re DavidEye
Besides,Madonna is not interested in doing a regular "concert" anyway.She has said repeatedly that,when she does a tour,she does things that she herself would like to see a performer do onstage.She's not into the typical concert experience.Her concerts are theatrical,dramatic and very Broadway-ish,and it's been this way ever since the 'Blond Ambition' tour in 1990. Maybe this is the problem. Maybe trying to do something so theatrical and Broadway-ish, in such a huge venue just gets swallowed up whole. Unless you're extraordinary. [This message was edited Fri Jul 23 10:36:38 2004 by CynicKill] Are you kidding!!! Madonna does not have the stage presence, the ability, the talent or anything to perform a live concert without: A. Army of Dancers B. Over-produced, over-staged, shows and last but not least. C. She is just a very, very average live performer. On a lighter note; She is a good video artist!!! "Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud!!!" - Brother James Brown
"Make my funk the P-FUNK...I want my funk uncut...." Brother George Clinton | |
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gman1966 said: CynicKill said: re DavidEye
Besides,Madonna is not interested in doing a regular "concert" anyway.She has said repeatedly that,when she does a tour,she does things that she herself would like to see a performer do onstage.She's not into the typical concert experience.Her concerts are theatrical,dramatic and very Broadway-ish,and it's been this way ever since the 'Blond Ambition' tour in 1990. Maybe this is the problem. Maybe trying to do something so theatrical and Broadway-ish, in such a huge venue just gets swallowed up whole. Unless you're extraordinary. [This message was edited Fri Jul 23 10:36:38 2004 by CynicKill] Are you kidding!!! Madonna does not have the stage presence, the ability, the talent or anything to perform a live concert without: A. Army of Dancers B. Over-produced, over-staged, shows and last but not least. C. She is just a very, very average live performer. On a lighter note; She is a good video artist!!! oh, shit. we forgot how long it was going to take this guy to put in his ignorant 2 cents 
DavidEye, we must start remembering to take bets early in the threading.....  "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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GrayKing said: gman1966 said: Are you kidding!!! Madonna does not have the stage presence, the ability, the talent or anything to perform a live concert without: A. Army of Dancers B. Over-produced, over-staged, shows and last but not least. C. She is just a very, very average live performer. On a lighter note; She is a good video artist!!! oh, shit. we forgot how long it was going to take this guy to put in his ignorant 2 cents
DavidEye, we must start remembering to take bets early in the threading..... Oh oh the Madonna Brigade getting defensive!!! I guess the truth is a terrible thing.. "Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud!!!" - Brother James Brown
"Make my funk the P-FUNK...I want my funk uncut...." Brother George Clinton | |
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Im going to see this show when it comes to Manchester in August, however Ive already seen most of it through videos on the internet, and while I have to say it isn't without fault, i personally think it looks like one of the most complete shows she's put on, and certainly more polished and spectacular than any other pop tours out there.
Some of the choreography looks stunning, her voice is in the best form of its career, and visually it looks amazing. My main criticism would be the musicianship. I DONT rate the backing band she has. IMO the tightest backing band she had was the 93 line up for the Girlie Show. They were extremely hot and put out some pounding versions of her songs. Someitmes alot of the music sounds like a backing track (although i think she only lip synchs 2-3 songs out of the 25 odd songs performed. I also dont rate some of the versions of old songs (like a prayer, papa dont preach etc) The Blond Ambition Tour is without doubt her Zenith, but the vocal problems she suffered on that tour often make many of the shows unwatchable / unlistenable. Vocally she is impecable on this tour, and anyone who says she cant sing is simply expecting her to be Celine Dion. Madonna may be no Whitney, but her voice is mature, powerful and in tune. Whats really annoyed me about the criticism of this tour is how people fail to acknowledge that madonna is 46. She aint gonna be able to dance like she used to (just like prince cant), and of course she cant wow people with any theatrics on the guitar like Prince can so she relies on backing dancers and big visuals.....where's the problem? Anyone with half a brain can see that madonna has worked harder than any performer out there to put this show together. At 46 it looks physically gruelling, and creatively it must have taken months of exstensive preparation to put together. Most pop acts simply turn up to rehersals where a creative team has put everything together for them, at least with Madonna you know what your getting is all her. | |
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gman1966 said: CynicKill said: re DavidEye
Besides,Madonna is not interested in doing a regular "concert" anyway.She has said repeatedly that,when she does a tour,she does things that she herself would like to see a performer do onstage.She's not into the typical concert experience.Her concerts are theatrical,dramatic and very Broadway-ish,and it's been this way ever since the 'Blond Ambition' tour in 1990. Maybe this is the problem. Maybe trying to do something so theatrical and Broadway-ish, in such a huge venue just gets swallowed up whole. Unless you're extraordinary. [This message was edited Fri Jul 23 10:36:38 2004 by CynicKill] Are you kidding!!! Madonna does not have the stage presence, the ability, the talent or anything to perform a live concert without: A. Army of Dancers B. Over-produced, over-staged, shows and last but not least. C. She is just a very, very average live performer. On a lighter note; She is a good video artist!!! This is so true. "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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whatever. whether she is a video artist,washed up hag or whatever, she does GOOD music.
And imo American Life kicks both Invincible's and Musicology's ass! | |
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gman1966 said: GrayKing said: oh, shit. we forgot how long it was going to take this guy to put in his ignorant 2 cents
DavidEye, we must start remembering to take bets early in the threading..... Oh oh the Madonna Brigade getting defensive!!! I guess the truth is a terrible thing.. defensive? no, not at all. we've learned to just brush you aside by now. but it is amusing to see how long it'll take you to show up and spew your bile every time a Madonna thread comes up  "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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GrayKing said: gman1966 said: Oh oh the Madonna Brigade getting defensive!!! I guess the truth is a terrible thing.. defensive? no, not at all. we've learned to just brush you aside by now. but it is amusing to see how long it'll take you to show up and spew your bile every time a Madonna thread comes up Well on that note I am going to show up every time a thread is created on that no-singing, no-dancing woman. You can bet your ass on that Buddy!!! "Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud!!!" - Brother James Brown
"Make my funk the P-FUNK...I want my funk uncut...." Brother George Clinton | |
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Are you kidding!!! Madonna does not have the stage presence, the ability, the talent or anything to perform a live concert without:
say what u want 'bout her singing or musical ability..but if there's one thing she definitely has it's stage presence...she fookin' commands the stage...even if she's just walking it...  ...Your coochie gonna swell up and fall apart... | |
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gman1966 said: GrayKing said: defensive? no, not at all. we've learned to just brush you aside by now. but it is amusing to see how long it'll take you to show up and spew your bile every time a Madonna thread comes up Well on that note I am going to show up every time a thread is created on that no-singing, no-dancing woman. You can bet your ass on that Buddy!!! wow, that's some threat 
you do it already..... which is what i just said."Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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she's kinda corny now....demoted. I am not African. Africa is in me, but I cannot return.
I am not taína. Taíno is in me, but there is no way back. I am not european. Europe lives in me, but I have no home there. I am new. History made me. My first language was spanglish. And I am | |
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gman1966 said: GrayKing said: oh, shit. we forgot how long it was going to take this guy to put in his ignorant 2 cents
DavidEye, we must start remembering to take bets early in the threading..... Oh oh the Madonna Brigade getting defensive!!! I guess the truth is a terrible thing.. I agree that Madonna is overrated but she's not washed up. She has a strong following. They like the Lypsynching so that's their thing. I would rather watch Janet Jackson any day! Oh, and i do know that Janet lipsynches also but she's HOTTER and definitely better 2 look at! [This message was edited Sat Jul 24 20:04:17 2004 by ELBOOGY] U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY! | |
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ELBOOGY said: gman1966 said: Oh oh the Madonna Brigade getting defensive!!! I guess the truth is a terrible thing.. I agree that Madonna is overrated but she's not washed up. She has a strong following. They like the Lypsynching so that's their thing. I would rather watch Janet Jackson any day! Oh, and i do know that Janet lipsynches also but she's HOTTER and definitely better 2 look at! [This message was edited Sat Jul 24 20:04:17 2004 by ELBOOGY] Janet is definitely smoother on the eyes. Madonna is so lean she looks like Skeletor!!! Can you believe some of the Madonna Brigade finds that sexy. Speaking of the Brigade, where is the Captain of the Brigade. Captain Davideye..... "Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud!!!" - Brother James Brown
"Make my funk the P-FUNK...I want my funk uncut...." Brother George Clinton | |
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gman1966 said: ELBOOGY said: I agree that Madonna is overrated but she's not washed up. She has a strong following. They like the Lypsynching so that's their thing. I would rather watch Janet Jackson any day! Oh, and i do know that Janet lipsynches also but she's HOTTER and definitely better 2 look at! [This message was edited Sat Jul 24 20:04:17 2004 by ELBOOGY] Janet is definitely smoother on the eyes. a lot of men find drugged-up looking, unintelligent women to be sexy. makes them easier to get into the sack, i guess "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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GrayKing said: a lot of men find drugged-up looking, unintelligent women to be sexy. makes them easier to get into the sack, i guess hah. trust me, i know him. he speaks from extensive personal experience "I don't need your forgiveness, cos I've been saved by Jesus, so fuck you." | |
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From the article.....
"How about not charging $300 a head for idiot fans to watch your Skeletor body skank around the stage to yet another reworked version of "Holiday"? Now that’s charitable."  Damn, that is funny though.
Now I can't stand Madonna, but even I thought that article was pretty hateful. (or maybe I'm just jealous that I didn't write it myself)  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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