strawberryletter23 said:

bashraka said:

I hope this documentary is permanently shelved. This isn't about "humanizing" Prince. It's about using a dead man as a vehicle to make millions of dollars from viewership from unsubstantiated hearsay and salaciousness. Fans in support of this doc just want to feed their curiosity over sordid details at the expense of Prince's dignity.

I feel like some fans are willing to call anything that doesn't paint Prince as an angel "unsubstantiated hearsay and salaciousness" - the truth is it sounds like the documentary was made with dignity to Prince and shows all facets of him - the good, the bad, and the genius.


And the facets that could be considered "bad", doesn't sound like they are there just to grab headlines. They are there because it is simply, the truth

Exactly!

the director worked for almost 5 years on this doc. It is not some cashgrab.

He is only trying to humanize P. with conversations with peeps/employees who worked with him intensively.

Ofcourse they have a different perspective on their boss'/manager like everybody in the world has withint their own job.

BTW didn't the Estate already received their millions?

Or maybe there is another clause, whatever at this point it is a tax write off for Netflix.

ItsOnlyMountains said:

SoulAlive said:

Didn’t the estate also have a problem with another director who was hired to do the doc? I believe it was a woman. They should probably just try to make their own documentary.It’s obvious that they don’t want a balanced,warts-and all,objective view of Prince’s life.

Yes, Ava DuVernay was orignally slated to create the documentary. She left over "creative differences." But I think that was before Llondell weaseled his way in, although I'm not 100% positive.

I wonder what her 'creative differences' were.

Possibly the same as Edelman used now, more a personal apporach of who Prince really was.

Hope she talks about it one day.

strawberryletter23 said:

bashraka said:

I hope this documentary is permanently shelved. This isn't about "humanizing" Prince. It's about using a dead man as a vehicle to make millions of dollars from viewership from unsubstantiated hearsay and salaciousness. Fans in support of this doc just want to feed their curiosity over sordid details at the expense of Prince's dignity.

I feel like some fans are willing to call anything that doesn't paint Prince as an angel "unsubstantiated hearsay and salaciousness" - the truth is it sounds like the documentary was made with dignity to Prince and shows all facets of him - the good, the bad, and the genius.

And the facets that could be considered "bad", doesn't sound like they are there just to grab headlines. They are there because it is simply, the truth

Well said!

Strawberrylova123 said:

What do ya’ll personally think will happen to this documentary?

More bluster from both sides about contents, more salacious and stupid media articles, a relatively unchanged version comes out sometime next year.

Strawberrylova123 said:

What do ya’ll personally think will happen to this documentary?

Ultimately, I don't think that netflix can do much without the estate approving it.

Strawberrylova123 said:

What do ya’ll personally think will happen to this documentary?

I think it comes out eventually, though perhaps at a reduced length. If Netflix indeed has final cut rights as the NYT article stated, then the length might be the only issue that the estate can use as pretext to prevent its release in current form. But it gets released.

Strawberrylova123 said:

What do ya’ll personally think will happen to this documentary?

Netflix will use it as a tax write off lol.

SpookyPurple said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

What do ya’ll personally think will happen to this documentary?

I think it comes out eventually, though perhaps at a reduced length. If Netflix indeed has final cut rights as the NYT article stated, then the length might be the only issue that the estate can use as pretext to prevent its release in current form. But it gets released.

I hope that Ezra is allowed to release the uncut version.

Great article.

IMHO the heart if the problem is the collusion of interests between journalism and the subject, as well as journalism and consumerism. Whether it's the artist or their estate, it's pretty obvious any attempt at making a documentary that isn't 100% flattering isn't going to end well if the filmmaker depends on the subject to approve of the final product.

I can understand the point of getting access to unreleased material in order to increase viewers' interest (particularly the core fanbase), but if they wanted to do anything other than 9 hours of praising Prince, they should have done their thing without asking the Esate for permission in the first place, and Netflix should have given up on some of the project's commercial appeal in favor of quality journalism.

skywalker said:

THis is is an exceltent article. I think there are basic questions related to this documentary. Let the term genius ignore us bad habits or worse (is this term obsolete). When did Mr. Nelson become Prince? Where is the artist where is the human? Do we get new insides in the art duplicates the life, or at least new ways of inpreting Prince Songs. SO RELEASE IT!

And no, Prince legacy will not be harmed.

databank said:

Great article.

IMHO the heart if the problem is the collusion of interests between journalism and the subject, as well as journalism and consumerism. Whether it's the artist or their estate, it's pretty obvious any attempt at making a documentary that isn't 100% flattering isn't going to end well if the filmmaker depends on the subject to approve of the final product.

I can understand the point of getting access to unreleased material in order to increase viewers' interest (particularly the core fanbase), but if they wanted to do anything other than 9 hours of praising Prince, they should have done their thing without asking the Esate for permission in the first place, and Netflix should have given up on some of the project's commercial appeal in favor of quality journalism.

Yeah, it was pretty naive of the documentary makers to get cooperation from The Estate and then expect them to approve anything that puts Prince in a negative light. The Estate has to sell Prince products, so they'd likely want six hours of celebrities gushing about what a genius Prince was. I'd find that pretty boring though. I've read all the books and listened through all the interviews on YouTube with the people who knew Prince, so... From the NYT article it sounds like they're just telling it as we already know it was.

muleFunk said:

SoulAlive said:

The estate should just grab a video camera,interview themselves,gush about how amazing Prince was,and call it a documentary that’s obvious what they really want: a positive “puff piece” with no negative details.

Or maybe, just maybe, the estate still believe that Prince, even deceased, deserve to be portrayed in every light with respect and dignity without unproven claims.

[Edited 9/11/24 16:23pm]

bashraka said:

SoulAlive said:

and besides,the cat is already out of the bag the world already knows what Jill is accusing him of.But look around: I don’t see any reports of anyone planning a “burn your Prince records” rally,lol

Prince is not losing his fans over this. The fandom has known for years (except those in denial).

ZafDilek said:

Vannormal said:

I don't agree at all. This far from a propaganda article. read it again. It's facinatingly good.

Yes, I know, the story is from one side.

But it's open and doesn't seem to hide anything.

-

This is what the whole dispute in general is all ablout:

"Although the shareholders in the estate claim publicly to have an equal voice, several people who have dealt with them directly say that McMillan is the dominant shaper of strategy and decisions. He has been a lawyer in the music industry for 30 years, and he is known as a canny businessman, who was instrumental in helping Prince get out of his Warner Brothers contract more than two decades ago, though he and Prince were not close in the last years of his life. He is also a polarizing figure whom several people characterized to me as controlling and bullying. Jay-Z famously went after him on his album “4:44”: “I sat down with Prince, eye to eye/He told me his wishes before he died/Now, Londell McMillan, he must be colorblind/They only see green from them purple eyes.” Several people I spoke to said they believe McMillan’s objections come down to a fear that the film will get Prince “canceled” and devalue the estate’s bottom line."

-

Then someone in the comments under the article wrote this, and I fully agree with what she or he wrote :

"Thank you for the care that you took in writing this (article). (...) And it’s such a tragic thing that a lawyer, an estate, a business-minded entity can hold back this documentary in the same way Warner Brothers held back his Masters. More mastery held away by greed. I truly hope this article inspires everyone, the estates, the managers, lawyers, Netflix, other artists, to step up in the spirit of Prince and set this documentary free."

In the spirit of Prince? As the article states, Prince would have never wanted this to come out. That was evident in the way he curated his vault, and what the interviewees told Edelman. He wanted his private life to remain just that - private. While I don't think for a second that they are acting out of the noble intent to respect his wishes, resisting the release of the documentary would likely be what Prince would have wanted. I can understand various arguments as to why people want this documentary to be out, but let's just be honest and admit that it's mainly to satisfy your own curiosity (and I get that). Let's not pretend like this is motivated by some sort of desire for justice.

Prince would have very likely never agreed to the making of this documentary in the first place. The estate agreed to it for whatever reason. 💵🐮 I personally think all this public back and forth is just to drum up interest, excitement and anticipation. It's rare as hell for me to pop in over here and find a thread with over 16,000 views and over 200 replies. I've missed you guys.

That being said, I too was surprised by the Jill Jones revelation. Not that it happened, Prince was no Saint, just that we're only now finding out about it. Anyhoo, I still want to see the whole 9 hours. #ReleaseIt

bashraka said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

ZafDilek said:

Vannormal said: In the spirit of Prince? As the article states, Prince would have never wanted this to come out. That was evident in the way he curated his vault, and what the interviewees told Edelman. He wanted his private life to remain just that - private. While I don't think for a second that they are acting out of the noble intent to respect his wishes, resisting the release of the documentary would likely be what Prince would have wanted. I can understand various arguments as to why people want this documentary to be out, but let's just be honest and admit that it's mainly to satisfy your own curiosity (and I get that). Let's not pretend like this is motivated by some sort of desire for justice.

Prince would have very likely never agreed to the making of this documentary in the first place. The estate agreed to it for whatever reason. 💵🐮 I personally think all this public back and forth is just to drum up interest, excitement and anticipation. It's rare as hell for me to pop in over here and find a thread with over 16,000 views and over 200 replies. I've missed you guys.

That being said, I too was surprised by the Jill Jones revelation. Not that it happened, Prince was no Saint, just that we're only now finding out about it. Anyhoo, I still want to see the whole 9 hours. #ReleaseIt

If Prince were alive, none of this would have happened, so the comparisson with his wishes or try to 'save' his ass, is too little too late, and irrelavant.
Remember, he's dead. As dead as can be, and, most important, no will! No personal legacy plan.

So what's going on now has nothing to do with what his wishes were or weren't.

That's it.

In the meantime, his legacy and all that is coming out now, 'as is', is a fine and interesting 'big mess'.

Certainly NOT like he wanted - too bad for him, but interesting for all of us.

If one likes it or not. That's the ongoing life after one's death, right?

bashraka said:

SoulAlive said:

The estate should just grab a video camera,interview themselves,gush about how amazing Prince was,and call it a documentary that’s obvious what they really want: a positive “puff piece” with no negative details.

Or maybe, just maybe, the estate still believe that Prince, even deceased, deserve to be portrayed in every light with respect and dignity without unproven claims.

[Edited 9/11/24 16:23pm]

This isn't some grand conspiracy to dirty Prince's name and legacy with gossip - if anyone has seen the fantastic OJ Simposon documentary... anyone with a brain can see it is the truth that this documentarian is after and credible anecdotes by people who were actually there


And it sounds like in this documentary he is being portrayed with respect too - it doesn't sound like some #cancelPrince takedown like some Prince fans, including the Estate are portraying this to sound like

[Edited 9/12/24 1:48am]

[Edited 9/12/24 1:52am]

JorisE73 said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

What do ya’ll personally think will happen to this documentary?

Netflix will use it as a tax write off lol.

.

Doubt that can be true: for a tax write off all of the sources need to be destroyed. Since the documentary consists to asignificant degree of footage licensed from the estate, it could mean that footage is not available to anyone, which would seriously fuck the estate.

.

I kinda doubt Netflix is just gonna be OK with spending tens of millions and getting nothing; they don't want this to be an example for others with similar deals.

.

And the estate isn't gonna be able to pay back Netflix.

databank said:

Great article.

IMHO the heart if the problem is the collusion of interests between journalism and the subject, as well as journalism and consumerism. Whether it's the artist or their estate, it's pretty obvious any attempt at making a documentary that isn't 100% flattering isn't going to end well if the filmmaker depends on the subject to approve of the final product.

I can understand the point of getting access to unreleased material in order to increase viewers' interest (particularly the core fanbase), but if they wanted to do anything other than 9 hours of praising Prince, they should have done their thing without asking the Esate for permission in the first place, and Netflix should have given up on some of the project's commercial appeal in favor of quality journalism.

.

Dude, come on. This is nonsense.

.

Netflix ain't in the business of making promos. They were never going to compile six hours of Prince videos and be done with it. They paid the estate to get access to unreleased footage to use in a documentary series, and that was always going to include some "bad" stuff.

.

I wouldn't be surprised if DuVernay left the project because her version of the doc was the same old story that's been told a million times and Netflix didn't care for that, and then Netflix hired a prestigious documentarian to create something that could win them awards.

.

Netflix never were going to do a Prince doc without audio and video of Prince, and particularly unreleased audio and video. Nobody's gonna subscribe to Netflix to watch some lame doc liek the ones that already exist and that no one cares about.