Revolution81 said:

Revolution81 said:

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its clearly a pro-Edelman/anti Estate propanganda article. But all it does is show Edelman is acting just as stubborn and amatuer as Mcmillan and co if not worse

I don't agree at all. This far from a propaganda article. read it again. It's facinatingly good.

Yes, I know, the story is from one side.

But it's open and doesn't seem to hide anything.

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This is what the whole dispute in general is all ablout:

"Although the shareholders in the estate claim publicly to have an equal voice, several people who have dealt with them directly say that McMillan is the dominant shaper of strategy and decisions. He has been a lawyer in the music industry for 30 years, and he is known as a canny businessman, who was instrumental in helping Prince get out of his Warner Brothers contract more than two decades ago, though he and Prince were not close in the last years of his life. He is also a polarizing figure whom several people characterized to me as controlling and bullying. Jay-Z famously went after him on his album “4:44”: “I sat down with Prince, eye to eye/He told me his wishes before he died/Now, Londell McMillan, he must be colorblind/They only see green from them purple eyes.” Several people I spoke to said they believe McMillan’s objections come down to a fear that the film will get Prince “canceled” and devalue the estate’s bottom line."

-

Then someone in the comments under the article wrote this, and I fully agree with what she or he wrote :

"Thank you for the care that you took in writing this (article). (...) And it’s such a tragic thing that a lawyer, an estate, a business-minded entity can hold back this documentary in the same way Warner Brothers held back his Masters. More mastery held away by greed. I truly hope this article inspires everyone, the estates, the managers, lawyers, Netflix, other artists, to step up in the spirit of Prince and set this documentary free."

Vannormal said:

I disagree that it's a propoganda article biased against the estate. I think it's a "pro-art" article. Ultimately, I think if push comes to shove Netflix will insist on a shorter cut to get around any legal obstacles the estate is using as pretext to block release.

At the end of the day, Prince documentaries will be made with or without the estate's cooperation. A documentarian can even use the Fair Use doctrine to use Prince's music/footage/photos if they wish - albeit in a limited manner.

The one McMillan note I agree with on paper - I'd have to see it in context to know for sure - is when he asks that the filmmakers remove Let's Go Crazy during the scene depicting Prince's death. That's just tacky and stupid in my opinion.

I think Netflix should release it as unauthorized by the Prince Estate. They should fairly settle up thier agreement financially and cut any ties so both are free to act and release material as they please. Netflix should be mindful to include resources for domestic abuse, drug abuse, etc. along with the documentary. Then the estate can fill our desperate needs for unreleased audio/video material. Problem solved.

bizzie said:

muleFunk said:

.

After his death there was tons of talk about Bowie deflowering a 14 year old, and that was a well-known story from long before his death. Just to give one example.

.

. All of this reminds me of Eddie Griffin's interview where he said they are not going to let a Black man have a clean legacy.

.

Read the article. Edelman shows Prince as a human. Prince had plenty of flaws, and pretending that wasn't the case is a lie.

.

For decades Prince fans have ignored the elephant in the room: that Prince was flawed. He had a mean streak, he loved to prank people but couldn't stand being the butt of one, he fired people for the flimsiest of reasons, he repeatedly screwed people over,... And whenever someone close to Prince told "negative" stories they were dismissed as a "disgruntled employee", ignoring that Prince seemed to have a lot of those and that perhaps the problem wasn't the employees.

Thank you

OMG these comments.

Fine, give them another movie about how he was born in Minneapolis, father was tough, self taught, played Batman on piano, music pours out of hiim, deleted bassline from WDC

blah blah blah blah

He is not being torn down - god forbid we actually talk about how there was so much conflict between the man and the art and what kind of struggle that must have been.

Be glad that you are free but renounce being a lesbian

Champions women but then cheats on them and disposes of them

so much more

It has NOTHING to do with him being black - they are just bringing up topics that have long been avoided.

Good lord not everything is race related

And to say that white artists are not treated the same is complete and utter bullshit - what the fuck are they talking about?

and what, are we just NOT supposed to bring up this stuff just because he is black?

Stop only seeing what you want to see already

Dealing with this awful estate is painful enough but goddamn the fans make it worse sometimes

[Edited 9/9/24 9:25am]

partyup77 said:

I think Netflix should release it as unauthorized by the Prince Estate. They should fairly settle up thier agreement financially and cut any ties so both are free to act and release material as they please. Netflix should be mindful to include resources for domestic abuse, drug abuse, etc. along with the documentary. Then the estate can fill our desperate needs for unreleased audio/video material. Problem solved.

.
Without authorisation Netflix wouldn't be able to use anything from the vault, so that means the majority of the film would end up on the cutting room floor.

here we go

Prince documentary includ...today.com)

Strawberrylova123 said:

here we go

Prince documentary includ...today.com)

Maybe this is part of the strategy for showing the NYT the film in the first place; a kind of frustrated last throw of the dice by Netflix and Ezra Edelman's team... get the worst of it out there, knowing that it will lead to some headlines, so the Estate realise the doc won't do any additional damage, and in fact may be a corrective by allowing people to see the accusations / behaviour in context.

I really hope we get to see it. Edelman's OJ doc was excellent.

Strawberrylova123 said:

here we go

Prince documentary includ...today.com)

Exacgtly!

Sigh!

That title alone...

Well, FUCK USA TODAY!

Only bent on sordid controversy, and as always taken out of context in a downright mean and unrefined manner - even stolen from this NYT article, out of context for sure.

So...if that's what the majority of poor minded people want, then goddmanit release this fucking documentary!

These squeamish magnified detail-oriented people with shabby lives, zap to the next thing at the end of the 9 hours anyway, without remembering anything of value.

lustmealways said:

NYT thing was definitely the start of a public pressure campaign

Thank you.

I can only hope and dream that is so true.

-

MakeMillions his 17 page of comments on what to remove is simply based on his own greed, to make sure he can milk Prince with purple bed sheets for the rest of his sad life.

Sorry to be so blunt, but i feel this 'unashamed greed' all over the place, clearly there and even so betxeen the lines.

I start to believe they really don't care at all concerning the art that is Prince.

Prince didn't trust him/them either.

ZafDilek said:

Vannormal said:

I don't agree at all. This far from a propaganda article. read it again. It's facinatingly good.

Yes, I know, the story is from one side.

But it's open and doesn't seem to hide anything.

-

This is what the whole dispute in general is all ablout:

"Although the shareholders in the estate claim publicly to have an equal voice, several people who have dealt with them directly say that McMillan is the dominant shaper of strategy and decisions. He has been a lawyer in the music industry for 30 years, and he is known as a canny businessman, who was instrumental in helping Prince get out of his Warner Brothers contract more than two decades ago, though he and Prince were not close in the last years of his life. He is also a polarizing figure whom several people characterized to me as controlling and bullying. Jay-Z famously went after him on his album “4:44”: “I sat down with Prince, eye to eye/He told me his wishes before he died/Now, Londell McMillan, he must be colorblind/They only see green from them purple eyes.” Several people I spoke to said they believe McMillan’s objections come down to a fear that the film will get Prince “canceled” and devalue the estate’s bottom line."

-

Then someone in the comments under the article wrote this, and I fully agree with what she or he wrote :

"Thank you for the care that you took in writing this (article). (...) And it’s such a tragic thing that a lawyer, an estate, a business-minded entity can hold back this documentary in the same way Warner Brothers held back his Masters. More mastery held away by greed. I truly hope this article inspires everyone, the estates, the managers, lawyers, Netflix, other artists, to step up in the spirit of Prince and set this documentary free."

In the spirit of Prince? As the article states, Prince would have never wanted this to come out. That was evident in the way he curated his vault, and what the interviewees told Edelman. He wanted his private life to remain just that - private. While I don't think for a second that they are acting out of the noble intent to respect his wishes, resisting the release of the documentary would likely be what Prince would have wanted. I can understand various arguments as to why people want this documentary to be out, but let's just be honest and admit that it's mainly to satisfy your own curiosity (and I get that). Let's not pretend like this is motivated by some sort of desire for justice.

It's not what the article states.

it's a comment by a reader.

-

Prince is dead.

When people die, the curiosity and controversy that these types of artists spread throughout their lives has always been a deliberately created pull and push between them and the media.

If you are a public figure, then you are partly responsible for the open questions left behind that will be filled in naturally.

Respect to privacy or not.

That's just that, especially after someone's death.
It is also important for the next of kin and co-workers to be able to ventilate openly what might be needed.

That too is a form of freedom and respect, which could or should not be allowed at that time.

Like the writer in the article states, and the doc-maker wished for, is to fill in the gaps of what+why Prince did what he did in his life.

It's also interesting study material, if you like it or not.

Sure Prince would've been against it.

he was against everything what was not under his control. Obviously.

But, this has nothing to do with what Prince would've wanted after his death.

And yes, I somehow believe in the noble intent of the doc.

I just need to see it to be able to confirm that.

My 2 cents:

The article makes it very clear that Prince, such as all of us, was a complex person.

Traumas and triumphs make us who we are.

The USA Today headline in their share of the story is quite misleading and click-baity.

One prime example: In the JJ story, it's stated that SHE allegedly slapped him first.

Regardless of how you feel about it, this was a man in his then-20s, at possibly the pinnacle of his fame and power, who had women throwing themselves at him. A man who, by all accounts, seemed extremely insecure behind closed doors. The "Prince" we saw was an image, a persona that he created to mask those insecurities because, at the end of the day, he had a job to do.

JJ, for whatever reason, was jealous because her friend was probably into P and slapped 20something year old, Purple Rain-era Prince.

A man who reacted as any 20something year-old with unresolved trauma would.

Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. SHE allegedly smacked HIM first.

JJ has had a history of being... interesting when it comes to her dealings with Prince.

Her own unresolved trauma? Possibly.

W&L, Mayte and almost everyone else were able to understand him as he was and are able to

compartmentalize his humanity and musical genius.

My point is yes,he hurt a lot of people.

WE hurt a lot of people, whether we know it or not.

Prince tried through his life to right a lot of his wrongs. Sometimes he failed miserably but the genral consensus is that yes - he was an asshole. An asshole with good intentions for the most part. Even in his dealings with women. Even in business. But he was human. Expecting a man who was famous for almost all of his adult life to live the same way as any other dude from the midwest is ridiculous.

Holding him on a higher pedestal and expecting him to live under those expectations is even more ridiculous.

He was just Skipper with money. Yes, he was hard on others, but he was most hard on himself and that's why he is no longer with us.

I blame Sharon for hiring Londell...

TrcikyChristopher said:

My 2 cents:

The article makes it very clear that Prince, such as all of us, was a complex person.

Traumas and triumphs make us who we are.

The USA Today headline in their share of the story is quite misleading and click-baity.

One prime example: In the JJ story, it's stated that SHE allegedly slapped him first.

Regardless of how you feel about it, this was a man in his then-20s, at possibly the pinnacle of his fame and power, who had women throwing themselves at him. A man who, by all accounts, seemed extremely insecure behind closed doors. The "Prince" we saw was an image, a persona that he created to mask those insecurities because, at the end of the day, he had a job to do.

JJ, for whatever reason, was jealous because her friend was probably into P and slapped 20something year old, Purple Rain-era Prince.

A man who reacted as any 20something year-old with unresolved trauma would.

Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. SHE allegedly smacked HIM first.

JJ has had a history of being... interesting when it comes to her dealings with Prince.

Her own unresolved trauma? Possibly.

W&L, Mayte and almost everyone else were able to understand him as he was and are able to

compartmentalize his humanity and musical genius.

My point is yes,he hurt a lot of people.

WE hurt a lot of people, whether we know it or not.

Prince tried through his life to right a lot of his wrongs. Sometimes he failed miserably but the genral consensus is that yes - he was an asshole. An asshole with good intentions for the most part. Even in his dealings with women. Even in business. But he was human. Expecting a man who was famous for almost all of his adult life to live the same way as any other dude from the midwest is ridiculous.

Holding him on a higher pedestal and expecting him to live under those expectations is even more ridiculous.

He was just Skipper with money. Yes, he was hard on others, but he was most hard on himself and that's why he is no longer with us.

Speaking of JJ, I'm really curious if she mentions that she and Prince reconcilled their relationship in 2016 when Vanity died. I cant remember the podcast (might've been Michael Deans podcast) when she talked about that she had a long conversation with him and he apologised. I have my doubts that she did because she's been throwing darts at his dead body in recent interviews.

TrcikyChristopher said:

My 2 cents:

The article makes it very clear that Prince, such as all of us, was a complex person.

Traumas and triumphs make us who we are.

The USA Today headline in their share of the story is quite misleading and click-baity.

One prime example: In the JJ story, it's stated that SHE allegedly slapped him first.

Regardless of how you feel about it, this was a man in his then-20s, at possibly the pinnacle of his fame and power, who had women throwing themselves at him. A man who, by all accounts, seemed extremely insecure behind closed doors. The "Prince" we saw was an image, a persona that he created to mask those insecurities because, at the end of the day, he had a job to do.

JJ, for whatever reason, was jealous because her friend was probably into P and slapped 20something year old, Purple Rain-era Prince.

A man who reacted as any 20something year-old with unresolved trauma would.

Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. SHE allegedly smacked HIM first.

JJ has had a history of being... interesting when it comes to her dealings with Prince.

Her own unresolved trauma? Possibly.

W&L, Mayte and almost everyone else were able to understand him as he was and are able to

compartmentalize his humanity and musical genius.

My point is yes,he hurt a lot of people.

WE hurt a lot of people, whether we know it or not.

Prince tried through his life to right a lot of his wrongs. Sometimes he failed miserably but the genral consensus is that yes - he was an asshole. An asshole with good intentions for the most part. Even in his dealings with women. Even in business. But he was human. Expecting a man who was famous for almost all of his adult life to live the same way as any other dude from the midwest is ridiculous.

Holding him on a higher pedestal and expecting him to live under those expectations is even more ridiculous.

He was just Skipper with money. Yes, he was hard on others, but he was most hard on himself and that's why he is no longer with us.

this is a thoughtful 2 cents. Thanks for writing it.

bizzie said:

Londell's tweets today:

"Let me ask YOU, if you found out that someone didn’t like you and/or hated how others loved you, would you trust them and let them make a major film story on your life, then you see the rough cuts mix facts with falsehood, speculation, omissions with opinions? GTHOH"

and

"In life, some people and things are worth fighting for… Do it right or do not do it at all, period!"

TrcikyChristopher said:

My 2 cents:

The article makes it very clear that Prince, such as all of us, was a complex person.

Traumas and triumphs make us who we are.

The USA Today headline in their share of the story is quite misleading and click-baity.

One prime example: In the JJ story, it's stated that SHE allegedly slapped him first.

Regardless of how you feel about it, this was a man in his then-20s, at possibly the pinnacle of his fame and power, who had women throwing themselves at him. A man who, by all accounts, seemed extremely insecure behind closed doors. The "Prince" we saw was an image, a persona that he created to mask those insecurities because, at the end of the day, he had a job to do.

JJ, for whatever reason, was jealous because her friend was probably into P and slapped 20something year old, Purple Rain-era Prince.

A man who reacted as any 20something year-old with unresolved trauma would.

Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. SHE allegedly smacked HIM first.

JJ has had a history of being... interesting when it comes to her dealings with Prince.

Her own unresolved trauma? Possibly.

W&L, Mayte and almost everyone else were able to understand him as he was and are able to

compartmentalize his humanity and musical genius.

My point is yes,he hurt a lot of people.

WE hurt a lot of people, whether we know it or not.

Prince tried through his life to right a lot of his wrongs. Sometimes he failed miserably but the genral consensus is that yes - he was an asshole. An asshole with good intentions for the most part. Even in his dealings with women. Even in business. But he was human. Expecting a man who was famous for almost all of his adult life to live the same way as any other dude from the midwest is ridiculous.

Holding him on a higher pedestal and expecting him to live under those expectations is even more ridiculous.

He was just Skipper with money. Yes, he was hard on others, but he was most hard on himself and that's why he is no longer with us.

Well done.

RODSERLING said:

peedub said:

RODSERLING said:

For me most interesting part of this article is that Questlove had to speak to his therapist for hours and cried his eyest out after watching this.
Hmmm...

Strawberrylova123 said:

here we go

Prince documentary includ...today.com)

There it is. That's the flag this documentary is be flying under in the media. Prince is unable to defend himself, this is hearsay (at best) and (most importantly) this will (say with me now) overshadow Prince's art/music. People cannot understand why the estate would object to this?

-

Listen, I know Prince wasn't a perfect person. I know he could be mean, bully, etc. I actually think that his portrayal of "The Kid" in Purple Rain is fairly close to what he was like.

-

That said, all documentaries are edited to give decidedly subjective account of the subject. Documentaries are not truths, they are perceptions. They are editorials. Is this really the filter/perspective that Prince deserves to be viewed through? I think not.

[Edited 9/9/24 14:42pm]