"The Prince We Never Knew" in the New York Times: long article on the Ezra Edelman documentary series for Netflix

Reply #421 posted 09/28/24 12:23am

Trufunksoulja

johnpiex said:

Also, using Let's Go Crazy as the backdrop for Prince being found dead in an elevator sounds tacky and disrespectful as fuck, not to mention manipulative.

Yeah outrageous , let's ban this song and Sometimes it snows in April, this will prevent anyone of making any "connections" with the lyrics.

razz

Reply #422 posted 09/28/24 3:08am

johnpiex

Trufunksoulja said:

johnpiex said:

Also, using Let's Go Crazy as the backdrop for Prince being found dead in an elevator sounds tacky and disrespectful as fuck, not to mention manipulative.

Yeah outrageous , let's ban this song and Sometimes it snows in April, this will prevent anyone of making any "connections" with the lyrics.

razz

The tenderness and poignancy of Sometimes It Snows In April would make it a far more suitable choice, even if its theme (and irony) makes it a bit obvious.
[Edited 9/29/24 0:58am]

Reply #423 posted 09/28/24 4:14am

Trufunksoulja

johnpiex said:
Trufunksoulja said:

Yeah outrageous , let's ban this song and Sometimes it snows in April, this will prevent anyone of making any "connections" with the lyrics.

The tenderness and poignancy of Sometimes It Snows In April would be a far more suitable choice, even if its theme (and irony) makes it a bit obvious.

I get your point, however if you look at it from only a lyrical standpoint: he wrote about the devil (re-written as elevator) and pills.

This is the scene where Morris Hayes talks about those lyrics (sans music).

Aren't those things similar as what happened for real, even if the music is upbeat?

Any investigative journalist, documentary maker or fan will point this out.

And it is not in any way to be disrespectful: unfortunately the situation happened to be similar as those lines in the lyrics.

Reply #424 posted 09/28/24 7:21am

SpookyPurple

Trufunksoulja said:

johnpiex said:

Also, using Let's Go Crazy as the backdrop for Prince being found dead in an elevator sounds tacky and disrespectful as fuck, not to mention manipulative.

Yeah outrageous , let's ban this song and Sometimes it snows in April, this will prevent anyone of making any "connections" with the lyrics.

razz

No one is saying anything about banning songs. Making random connections to lyrics isn’t interesting to me. That’s a game that can be played all day with anything. If other people find that interesting and think there’s some mystical connection blah blah then fine. Not me. Filmmaking is about choices and that’s a choice I find lazy.

Reply #425 posted 09/28/24 8:51am

master

SpookyPurple said:

Trufunksoulja said:

johnpiex said:

Also, using Let's Go Crazy as the backdrop for Prince being found dead in an elevator sounds tacky and disrespectful as fuck, not to mention manipulative.

Yeah outrageous , let's ban this song and Sometimes it snows in April, this will prevent anyone of making any "connections" with the lyrics.

razz

i like the idea of the song matching what happens at Prince's death in doc. 'Let's go crazy' would work fin.At times u reflect what's happening on screen with music.Eg Rocky IV as high energy motivational songs.. Let's not forget Prince trys to match the song lyrics to scenes in the movie Purple Rain.So is that tacky also?.U have fallen 4 the estate playing silly mindgames by saying it's tacky.The estate have Princes ashes in a lego Paisley Park as part of tour.I don't think they r the pioneers of good taste. They do whatever makes them money.They r wrong about the doc causing trouble.The slight controversy would sell it. Prince originally always sold himself as a controversial figure.The doc estate want would b a boring ass kissing piece.
[Edited 9/28/24 10:22am]
[Edited 9/28/24 10:28am]

Reply #426 posted 09/28/24 2:45pm

avatar

master said:
SpookyPurple said:
No one is saying anything about banning songs. Making random connections to lyrics isn’t interesting to me. That’s a game that can be played all day with anything. If other people find that interesting and think there’s some mystical connection blah blah then fine. Not me. Filmmaking is about choices and that’s a choice I find lazy.
i like the idea of the song matching what happens at Prince's death in doc. 'Let's go crazy' would work fin.At times u reflect what's happening on screen with music.Eg Rocky IV as high energy motivational songs.. Let's not forget Prince trys to match the song lyrics to scenes in the movie Purple Rain.So is that tacky also?.U have fallen 4 the estate playing silly mindgames by saying it's tacky.The estate have Princes ashes in a lego Paisley Park as part of tour.I don't think they r the pioneers of good taste. They do whatever makes them money.They r wrong about the doc causing trouble.The slight controversy would sell it. Prince originally always sold himself as a controversial figure.The doc estate want would b a boring ass kissing piece. [Edited 9/28/24 10:22am] [Edited 9/28/24 10:28am]

Reminds me... years ago when I was a wedding DJ I used to suggest to the brides that some people consider songs like Hokey Pokey & Chicken Dance to be tacky before asking them if they wanted them played at their wedding. The result, 100% of the brides-to-be said to NOT play them. Just putting the idea in their head was enough that they didn't want it, even if they had wanted them before I asked. Yes, it was manipulative but I didn't want to play them and I was leaving the choice up to them, so, I thought it was a great tactic. lol

Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors.

Reply #427 posted 09/28/24 6:29pm

SoulAlive	what's really frustrating is....the non-release of this documentary is apparently holding up other projects that we could be getting First Avenue '83 DVD/blu-ray set?? Purple Rain 40th Anniversary Super Deluxe Edition?? Nope....we won't get any of those things.
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Reply #428 posted 09/28/24 7:52pm

MIRvmn1

avatar

SoulAlive said:

what's really frustrating is....the non-release of this documentary is apparently holding up other projects that we could be getting mad First Avenue '83 DVD/blu-ray set?? Purple Rain 40th Anniversary Super Deluxe Edition?? Nope....we won't get any of those things.

Yeah it seems like we won't get anything this year.

U are now an official member of the New Power Generation
Welcome 2 The Dawn
Free the SDE now!

Reply #429 posted 09/28/24 10:34pm

Vannormal

Trufunksoulja said:

johnpiex said:
Trufunksoulja said: The tenderness and poignancy of Sometimes It Snows In April would be a far more suitable choice, even if its theme (and irony) makes it a bit obvious.

I get your point, however if you look at it from only a lyrical standpoint: he wrote about the devil (re-written as elevator) and pills.

This is the scene where Morris Hayes talks about those lyrics (sans music).

Aren't those things similar as what happened for real, even if the music is upbeat?

Any investigative journalist, documentary maker or fan will point this out.

And it is not in any way to be disrespectful: unfortunately the situation happened to be similar as those lines in the lyrics.

Exactly!
All these unnecessary concerns, based on a brief account by an employee or someone who has seen the doc (only once), probably in unpublished version.
Best always to build on what you can observe for yourself, then let it sink in and think for a while, before starting to fulminate on exact (unknown) details.
None of us knows the exact thrust of the dcoumentary and its creator's views.
All these quick, unsubstantiated incitements are as bite-sized as can be.

Indeed, not even noticing or using it would be a shortcoming I think.

But as always, everything depends on context and execution.
The manner, is always much more important than the topic you bring.

Everythign depends on that.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)

Reply #430 posted 09/29/24 1:06am

johnpiex

master said:
SpookyPurple said:
No one is saying anything about banning songs. Making random connections to lyrics isn’t interesting to me. That’s a game that can be played all day with anything. If other people find that interesting and think there’s some mystical connection blah blah then fine. Not me. Filmmaking is about choices and that’s a choice I find lazy.
i like the idea of the song matching what happens at Prince's death in doc. 'Let's go crazy' would work fin.At times u reflect what's happening on screen with music.Eg Rocky IV as high energy motivational songs.. Let's not forget Prince trys to match the song lyrics to scenes in the movie Purple Rain.So is that tacky also?.U have fallen 4 the estate playing silly mindgames by saying it's tacky.The estate have Princes ashes in a lego Paisley Park as part of tour.I don't think they r the pioneers of good taste. They do whatever makes them money.They r wrong about the doc causing trouble.The slight controversy would sell it. Prince originally always sold himself as a controversial figure.The doc estate want would b a boring ass kissing piece. [Edited 9/28/24 10:22am] [Edited 9/28/24 10:28am]

No, because that's the function of a soundtrack. In this case, it seems the director is taking a song where Prince sings the word "elevator," and is trying to sort of retroactively ascribe an unintended meaning to it. "Remember that song where Prince sings about an elevator bringing you down? Well he died in an elevator! Whoa!" Cue Bill and Ted voice. To me, that feels tacky, manipulative, and a bit lazy. Of course I'm only basing that on 2nd or 3rd hand accounts of the film. If the director felt inclined to show me the actual finished version, you know, for clarification purposes, I'd be happy to oblige.

Reply #431 posted 09/29/24 9:58am

master

johnpiex said:

master said:

SpookyPurple said:
No one is saying anything about banning songs. Making random connections to lyrics isn’t interesting to me. That’s a game that can be played all day with anything. If other people find that interesting and think there’s some mystical connection blah blah then fine. Not me. Filmmaking is about choices and that’s a choice I find lazy.

i like the idea of the song matching what happens at Prince's death in doc. 'Let's go crazy' would work fin.At times u reflect what's happening on screen with music.Eg Rocky IV as high energy motivational songs.. Let's not forget Prince trys to match the song lyrics to scenes in the movie Purple Rain.So is that tacky also?.U have fallen 4 the estate playing silly mindgames by saying it's tacky.The estate have Princes ashes in a lego Paisley Park as part of tour.I don't think they r the pioneers of good taste. They do whatever makes them money.They r wrong about the doc causing trouble.The slight controversy would sell it. Prince originally always sold himself as a controversial figure.The doc estate want would b a boring ass kissing piece. [Edited 9/28/24 10:22am] [Edited 9/28/24 10:28am]

It also speaks of pills & is about the devil/death.It is the most connected song to the situation. .So mayb he feels Prince is in hell having a good time.I'd end it with a cartoon of Prince having a Pillow fight with Sinead O'Connor in Hell.Just as she starts singing 'Nothing Compares 2 u.'Prince Knocks her out with pillow.
I do no think it's tacky I'd put Let's go crazy at that spot. Not many would ignore something where lyrics connect well with what ur seeing.I suppose he could use 'Facedown' instead

[Edited 9/29/24 10:00am]
[Edited 9/29/24 10:01am]
[Edited 9/29/24 10:13am]

Reply #432 posted 09/29/24 5:41pm

SpookyPurple

johnpiex said:

master said:

SpookyPurple said:
No one is saying anything about banning songs. Making random connections to lyrics isn’t interesting to me. That’s a game that can be played all day with anything. If other people find that interesting and think there’s some mystical connection blah blah then fine. Not me. Filmmaking is about choices and that’s a choice I find lazy.

i like the idea of the song matching what happens at Prince's death in doc. 'Let's go crazy' would work fin.At times u reflect what's happening on screen with music.Eg Rocky IV as high energy motivational songs.. Let's not forget Prince trys to match the song lyrics to scenes in the movie Purple Rain.So is that tacky also?.U have fallen 4 the estate playing silly mindgames by saying it's tacky.The estate have Princes ashes in a lego Paisley Park as part of tour.I don't think they r the pioneers of good taste. They do whatever makes them money.They r wrong about the doc causing trouble.The slight controversy would sell it. Prince originally always sold himself as a controversial figure.The doc estate want would b a boring ass kissing piece. [Edited 9/28/24 10:22am] [Edited 9/28/24 10:28am]

Couldn’t have tried to explain it any better myself. 100%

Reply #433 posted 09/29/24 5:42pm

SpookyPurple

master said:

johnpiex said:

master said:

SpookyPurple said:
No one is saying anything about banning songs. Making random connections to lyrics isn’t interesting to me. That’s a game that can be played all day with anything. If other people find that interesting and think there’s some mystical connection blah blah then fine. Not me. Filmmaking is about choices and that’s a choice I find lazy.

i like the idea of the song matching what happens at Prince's death in doc. 'Let's go crazy' would work fin.At times u reflect what's happening on screen with music.Eg Rocky IV as high energy motivational songs.. Let's not forget Prince trys to match the song lyrics to scenes in the movie Purple Rain.So is that tacky also?.U have fallen 4 the estate playing silly mindgames by saying it's tacky.The estate have Princes ashes in a lego Paisley Park as part of tour.I don't think they r the pioneers of good taste. They do whatever makes them money.They r wrong about the doc causing trouble.The slight controversy would sell it. Prince originally always sold himself as a controversial figure.The doc estate want would b a boring ass kissing piece. [Edited 9/28/24 10:22am] [Edited 9/28/24 10:28am]

Huh? See my comments above about taste haha.

Reply #434 posted 09/30/24 1:21am

johnpiex

master said:
johnpiex said:

No, because that's the function of a soundtrack. In this case, it seems the director is taking a song where Prince sings the word "elevator," and is trying to sort of retroactively ascribe an unintended meaning to it. "Remember that song where Prince sings about an elevator bringing you down? Well he died in an elevator! Whoa!" Cue Bill and Ted voice. To me, that feels tacky, manipulative, and a bit lazy. Of course I'm only basing that on 2nd or 3rd hand accounts of the film. If the director felt inclined to show me the actual finished version, you know, for clarification purposes, I'd be happy to oblige.

It also speaks of pills & is about the devil/death.It is the most connected song to the situation. .So mayb he feels Prince is in hell having a good time.I'd end it with a cartoon of Prince having a Pillow fight with Sinead O'Connor in Hell.Just as she starts singing 'Nothing Compares 2 u.'Prince Knocks her out with pillow. I do no think it's tacky I'd put Let's go crazy at that spot. Not many would ignore something where lyrics connect well with what ur seeing.I suppose he could use 'Facedown' instead [b]

Prince said in the 1997 Chris Rock interview that the song is "about God and Satan, you know, me dealing with that dichotomy...The de-elevator was Satan in that song...and Let's Go Crazy was God to me...stay happy, stay focused, and you can beat the de-elevator." You have your right to interpretation, but the songwriter didn't quite mean it that way. If one was to expand upon Prince's own explanation of the song, it seems to be more about the second coming, than just "the devil/death," or "pills." "Hang tough, children. He's coming."

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Reply #435 posted 09/30/24 3:20am

argh, am tired of reading comments about this now, just want to see it. i mean, whether you are in the 'ban this evil blasphemy' or 'free the doc!' camp, nine hours of a film on prince is not something i have a problem with really. the man is totally underserved when it comes to documentaries compared to the stones, dylan, etc. about time we had something like this.

Reply #436 posted 09/30/24 5:10am

Vannormal

I would even say, a 17 hours documentary on Prince would not bore me.

They could fill it up even more with so much more unreleased shit.

I'm goonna send an enmail to edelman, and tell him to make a 17 hour one. wink

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)

Reply #437 posted 09/30/24 12:16pm

Vannormal

(sorry wrong post)

[Edited 9/30/24 12:19pm]

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)

Reply #438 posted 09/30/24 1:22pm

rapper	Questlove is so cringe, gimme a break. Woman beating Prince can have my records back, he wasn't a man if he did that. What a little bitch. I'm out
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Reply #439 posted 09/30/24 1:37pm

avatar

rapper said:

Questlove is so cringe, gimme a break.

Woman beating Prince can have my records back, he wasn't a man if he did that. What a little bitch.

I'm out

Seriously?!? So, 40 years after the alleged incident, JJ makes an unsubstantiated claim, we have no context or confirmation from anyone else that might have knowledge of the incident, and of course, Prince isn't around to get his side of the story.... And that's enough for you? Wow! Ok, then.

I would recommend you refrain from learning all you can about any other favorite artists you might have, odds are you'll have to get rid of most of your music collection when you learn many of them are guilty of something that crosses a line. Especially if you like rap/hip-hop.

Good luck! wink

Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgkoVtbNAa8

Reply #440 posted 10/01/24 11:54am

skywalker

avatar

What I want in a Prince documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/w...R-qzSYsJ9k

https://www.youtube.com/w...1i2REK7bVQ

https://www.youtube.com/w...AWqxxxtOR8

https://www.youtube.com/w...qRP_5H5jmU

https://www.youtube.com/w...y9ttNYwzg0

What I don't want in a Prince documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/w...mca421urfo

Tone matters. You can explore all aspects (positive and negative) of Prince's life, but the tone and the lens through which you focus on "the truth" matters.

Yeah, a Prince doc should be informative. Maybe even revealing and more personal than Prince would want. Yet, it should also serve Prince's art/legacy and attempt to be, I dunno, a bit inspiring and even possibly transcendent.

[Edited 10/1/24 11:56am]

[Edited 10/1/24 12:15pm]

"New Power slide...."

Reply #441 posted 10/01/24 12:42pm

bashraka

rapper said:

Questlove is so cringe, gimme a break.

Woman beating Prince can have my records back, he wasn't a man if he did that. What a little bitch.

I'm out

Since, you want to "give" your records back to Prince, how much you want for your collection? Take PayPal, Zelle, EBay? Name, your price! lol

3121 #1 THIS YEAR

Reply #442 posted 10/01/24 3:07pm

homesquid

avatar

I can't understand the surprise. Prince was clearly an asshole. So many examples. The woman-beating shit is the worst so far. Maybe he regretted it. I tend to believe he matured as he..matured.

Reply #443 posted 10/01/24 4:59pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

rapper said:

Questlove is so cringe, gimme a break.

Woman beating Prince can have my records back, he wasn't a man if he did that. What a little bitch.

I'm out

Seriously?!? So, 40 years after the alleged incident, JJ makes an unsubstantiated claim, we have no context or confirmation from anyone else that might have knowledge of the incident, and of course, Prince isn't around to get his side of the story.... And that's enough for you? Wow! Ok, then.

I would recommend you refrain from learning all you can about any other favorite artists you might have, odds are you'll have to get rid of most of your music collection when you learn many of them are guilty of something that crosses a line. Especially if you like rap/hip-hop.

Good luck!

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0

Reply #444 posted 10/01/24 5:21pm

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

homesquid said:

I can't understand the surprise. Prince was clearly an asshole. So many examples. The woman-beating shit is the worst so far. Maybe he regretted it. I tend to believe he matured as he..matured.

The real documentary should be about the proletariat's obsession with not only celebrity but believing any artist/celeb they worship is automatically a great person by sheer virtue of... making neat art?

And you'd assume cancel culture would make people more understanding that human beings are innately flawed, instead they quadruple-down on Keanu Reeves and Dave Grohl "gee what great guys" anecdotes and lose their shit even worse when their heroes get outed as human.

Reply #445 posted 10/01/24 6:36pm

laytonian

Trufunksoulja said:

dodger07 said:

bashraka said:

SoulAlive said:

The estate should just grab a video camera,interview themselves,gush about how amazing Prince was,and call it a documentary that’s obvious what they really want: a positive “puff piece” with no negative details.

Or maybe, just maybe, the estate still believe that Prince, even deceased, deserve to be portrayed in every light with respect and dignity without unproven claims.

[Edited 9/11/24 16:23pm]

EXACTLY

I wouldn't want 'a positive puff piece' but do we really need autopsy photos, ex's talking how he was in bed, speculation of abuse, etc...

Personally I wouldn't want this for a deceased friend or family member

Have you even read the article? There are no autopsy pics that would be insane. The doc only shows paisley park with all the pills bottles etc. Pics from the investigation.

And P had many girlfriends it is obvious that this was a crucial part of his life which manifested in his music.
[Edited 9/12/24 5:32am]

True!
Theautopsy is sealed until 2046 by Minnesota law.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.

Reply #446 posted 10/01/24 6:53pm

avatar

bashraka said:

rapper said:

Questlove is so cringe, gimme a break.

Woman beating Prince can have my records back, he wasn't a man if he did that. What a little bitch.

I'm out

Since, you want to "give" your records back to Prince, how much you want for your collection? Take PayPal, Zelle, EBay? Name, your price!

Powerful! cool

Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors.

Reply #447 posted 10/03/24 2:23am

FancyLesbian

I think it's really gross to call Jill Jones' claims "unsubstantiated". They are substantied by her. There's no reason to think she's lying. Can we just not do that, ya'll? Whatever anyone decides to do with that information is a seperate issue.

Reply #448 posted 10/03/24 2:56am

JorisE73

FancyLesbian said:

I think it's really gross to call Jill Jones' claims "unsubstantiated". They are substantied by her. There's no reason to think she's lying. Can we just not do that, ya'll? Whatever anyone decides to do with that information is a seperate issue.

Agree, but we're still getting half the story so scrutiny is warranted and it was confimred years ago from multiple sources that Edelman is more interested in emotional responses for a 'wow effect' instead of cold hard facts

Reply #449 posted 10/03/24 6:05am

avatar

FancyLesbian said:

I think it's really gross to call Jill Jones' claims "unsubstantiated". They are substantied by her. There's no reason to think she's lying. Can we just not do that, ya'll? Whatever anyone decides to do with that information is a seperate issue.

It's the definition of unsubstantiated. Unless I missed something. Did someone substantiate her claim? Her friend that was with her that night could do it. Anyone on his management team that was aware could do it. We still wouldn't get the whole story without Prince around anymore.

I'm not saying she's lying. I believe her, actually. But my belief or your feelings don't make it truth.

If this is a "believe all women" thing, then, no. I don't do that. Whether I believe Jill or not Prince is innocent until proven guilty and her accusation is not proof. At the very least there needs to be corroboration witrh others in the know.

Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors.