Buttox said:

Vannormal said:

Thus,

quality transcends always quantity,

and quantity rarely never equals (supreme good) quality.

Numbers are just numbers, and can make a difference in money in the end, that's all.

Is that why people always want someone to be super popular?

I found peace in the fact that Prince still managed to stay more than relevant in whatever choices he made during his lifetime. And I surely don't agree with most he did, believe me.

But, no matter what a fan like me thinks, he was highly respected.

Nothing else matters for any artist in the end than just that, right ?

I do wonder how many rappers will end up with the same recognition ?

Kanye ? Eminem? Jay Z? Drake ? I'm not judging, just wondering.

We'll see that in the future. And sure there is damn good quality hip hop and rap out there today.

Total BS ...The Beatles were the masters of avant Garde ground breaking commercialism. ATWIAD does not stand the test of time...it has too many filler tracks that are not strong enough. The only 4 masterpiece albums that Prince made were Dirty Mind, 1999, Purple Rain and SOTT (as much as I love Lovesexy and Parade not in the same league - each has songs with melodies and hooks that needed refinement see eg Mountains) In each of those he was trying to prove something and had to apply discipline. In all other albums he overindulged himself and lacked the discipline to cut out the fat. Can you imagine a follow up to Purple Rain with the best 4 songs from ATWIAD Erotic City, She's Always in my Hair, Dance Electric, Extraloveable,Moonbeam levels and the best 3 The Family tracks? Would have been phenomenal [Edited 1/12/22 11:55am]

That would've been Purple Rain 2, which is exactly what Prince didn't want to put out.

eyewishuheaven said:

MickyDolenz said:

TonyVanDam said:

THAT SuperBowl halftime show fallout delayed Janet's R&RHOF entry by a couple of years. Quite honestly, she could have been inducted 2 years before Madonna.

The original lineup of Destiny's Child is eligible this year. You think they're gonna get in? Jay-Z is already inducted and Blue Ivy even won a Grammy.

.

Not until En Vogue and/or TLC get in first! If we're talking "mainstream", TLC would definitely go first.

TonyVanDam said:

Not until En Vogue and/or TLC get in first! If we're talking "mainstream", TLC would definitely go first.

Good luck with that. Those groups don't have Beyoncé in it. Beyoncé has been on the cover of Rolling Stone several times, but neither En Vogue or TLC has a cover. If the Hall was interested in them, they've been eligible for several years now. Also with TLC, they were kinda a female version of Bell Biv DeVoe and New Edition has never even received a nomination. Bobby Brown has the biggest selling New Jack Swing album. Without NE, there would be no New Kids On The Block (literally) and the other such groups after them. The only reason the New Kids exist is because NE left Maurice Starr and he decided to create a white New Edition. Their first album didn't do much, but their second Hangin Tough' blew up and was more successful than any New Edition record. I remember NKOTB had lamps, bedsheets, dolls, a 1-900 number and all kinds of things that NE didn't get. The popularity of NKOTB led to other male vocal/dancing groups in the 1990s and also Marky Mark. The Marky Mark And The Funky Bunch debut album was originally Donnie Wahlberg's solo album. The Funky Bunch was Donnie's group. Donnie removed his vocals and gave the album to his brother.

Dalia11 said:

No. Rap/Hip-Hop is a Genre of music that focuses on lyrics a capella style.

That sounds more like Bobby McFerrin or Manhattan Transfer or Naturally 7 than hip hop

Buttox said:

LoveGalore said:

Buttox said:

Nope...none of those tracks is guitar heavy...it would have been a masterpiece psychedelic funk album. The problem was that ATWIAD IS the anti-Purple Rain...you need peak arrogance and self-indulgence to practically disown your most celebrated work with your follow up album. [Edited 1/13/22 8:01am]

Haha - Extralovable, SAIMH, Moonbeam Levels, and Dance Electric are all guitar heavy songs with solos. Especially SAIMH.

Yeah, guitars or no guitars, those songs all sound like Purple Rain. That's my point.

Also, five of the nine songs on Purple Rain are not guitar-driven.

MickyDolenz said:

eyewishuheaven said:

LoveGalore said:

eyewishuheaven said:

Yeah, guitars or no guitars, those songs all sound like Purple Rain. That's my point.

Also, five of the nine songs on Purple Rain are not guitar-driven.

I agree with you on both points and the original point! It would be weird to hear an official album that wasn't ATWIAD as we know it but there were obviously more Purple Rainish songs in the can by then.

Whoops, did I sound like I was arguing with you there? I was actually agreeing with you.

I personally wouldn't want to live in a timeline where Purple Rain wasn't followed up by gems like Condition of the Heart and Tambourine.

Buttox said:

eyewishuheaven said:

That would've been Purple Rain 2, which is exactly what Prince didn't want to put out.

Nope...none of those tracks is guitar heavy...it would have been a masterpiece psychedelic funk album. The problem was that ATWIAD IS the anti-Purple Rain...you need peak arrogance and self-indulgence to practically disown your most celebrated work with your follow up album. [Edited 1/13/22 8:01am]

I see it as one of his most respectable and audacious creative decisions. If it had been otherwise and he'd just made repeated rehashes of Purple Rain simply because it was popular, the internet would be awash with people arguing that he had sold out from that point on. It was entirely the right decision, and the equal of Purple Rain in many ways. The highlights on ATWIAD are among my favourite things in his whole oeuvre.

eyewishuheaven said:

LoveGalore said:

eyewishuheaven said: I agree with you on both points and the original point! It would be weird to hear an official album that wasn't ATWIAD as we know it but there were obviously more Purple Rainish songs in the can by then.

Whoops, did I sound like I was arguing with you there? I was actually agreeing with you.

I personally wouldn't want to live in a timeline where Purple Rain wasn't followed up by gems like Condition of the Heart and Tambourine.

Me neither. The only track that I could live without is The Ladder. I seem to be in the minority who consider Temptation a highlight as well... its like Prince was channeling Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, completely over-the-top.

Rap music didn't fuck Prince's career, Prince did.

fen said:

eyewishuheaven said:

Whoops, did I sound like I was arguing with you there? I was actually agreeing with you.

I personally wouldn't want to live in a timeline where Purple Rain wasn't followed up by gems like Condition of the Heart and Tambourine.

Me neither. The only track that I could live without is The Ladder. I seem to be in the minority who consider Temptation a highlight as well... its like Prince was channeling Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, completely over-the-top.

I think the 'song' portion of Temptation is an absolute highlight as well, and a nice jab at anyone who supposed he was hanging up his Guitar Hero gloves. The problem with the second half (for me) is that things like that are only really cool the first time you hear them - after that it's like, "couldn't we have had another song, here?"

eyewishuheaven said:

fen said:

Me neither. The only track that I could live without is The Ladder. I seem to be in the minority who consider Temptation a highlight as well... its like Prince was channeling Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, completely over-the-top.

I think the 'song' portion of Temptation is an absolute highlight as well, and a nice jab at anyone who supposed he was hanging up his Guitar Hero gloves. The problem with the second half (for me) is that things like that are only really cool the first time you hear them - after that it's like, "couldn't we have had another song, here?"

Yes, I know what you mean, it kind of deflates in the 2nd half. I feel the same way about "We Can Fuck" from PR Deluxe - the first part is an absolute masterpiece, but it reaches a climax and then meanders around a bit aimlessly. I guess that he was echoing the movement of libidinal energy, climax and eventual peace, but it ends up undermining the impact of the first half in some cases.

I've frequently seen Temptation in lists of Prince's worst songs and it surprises me.

[Edited 1/16/22 17:18pm]

eyewishuheaven said:

Buttox said:

LoveGalore said:

Buttox said:

Yeah I didn't discount the best tracks in ATWiAD which includes CotA in my book.



I guess youre right....its not the guitar sound but the rock sensibilities that I was referring to and even those tracks on PR have them: Take me With You (rockpop), Baby I'm A Star (funk rock). Even the Beautiful Ones with all screaming is a rock ballad.

Raspberry Beret sounds similar to Take Me With You (he often played both together) so sre you saying that shouldn't have been on ATWIAD either?
I suspect 95% of people and Prince fans would agree that She's Always in My Hair is far superior to Tambourine. It's not even close. Sure its more PR but it's a much better song and Tambourine should have been a b side instead.


This is precisely my point. If Prince had focused on making the best melodic and rhythmic songs he could in all his albums he would have approached the Beatles in his ability to experiment and stay at his commercial peak.

Instead he reacted against his own success and overindulged and overstuffed his albums with subpar fare. ATWIAD is when it really starts.

Prince had an artistic point of view that may differ from how you see it 40 years later.

And he also had his reasons for why he did or didn't release a song on any given project. It was likely intentional that SAIMH was a b side and Tamborine was not.

Btw, I love both equally. Tamborine is a thing he hadn't really done to that point. He'd done several SAIMH type songs though.

Buttox said:

eyewishuheaven said:

Whoops, did I sound like I was arguing with you there? I was actually agreeing with you.

I personally wouldn't want to live in a timeline where Purple Rain wasn't followed up by gems like Condition of the Heart and Tambourine.

Yeah I didn't discount the best tracks in ATWiAD which includes CotA in my book. I guess youre right....its not the guitar sound but the rock sensibilities that I was referring to and even those tracks on PR have them: Take me With You (rockpop), Baby I'm A Star (funk rock). Even the Beautiful Ones with all screaming is a rock ballad. Raspberry Beret sounds similar to Take Me With You (he often played both together) so sre you saying that shouldn't have been on ATWIAD either? I suspect 95% of people and Prince fans would agree that She's Always in My Hair is far superior to Tambourine. It's not even close. Sure its more PR but it's a much better song and Tambourine should have been a b side instead. This is precisely my point. If Prince had focused on making the best melodic and rhythmic songs he could in all his albums he would have approached the Beatles in his ability to experiment and stay at his commercial peak. Instead he reacted against his own success and overindulged and overstuffed his albums with subpar fare. ATWIAD is when it really starts.

Please take this in the spirit of good natured conversation, but I couldn’t disagree more. For me, as someone who has always appreciated his weirder stuff more than his pop, it was his desire to stay on top commercially that undermined his status in the 90s. That’s what the move toward Hip-Hop was all about, wasn’t it? As the 90s wore on the general consensus was that Prince had run out of ideas (rather than marketable tunes) and was now chasing trends. I mean, The Most Beautiful Girl In The World was Prince's first no.1 in the UK and stayed at the top of the charts for what felt like ages, but it did his reputation no favours among the serious music lovers in my peer group (I was a teenager at the time), who saw it as saccharine and middle-of-the-road. From a creative perspective, riding the natural ebb and flow of success with humility and focusing on experimentation would have been precisely the right move imo. Culture would have circled back to him eventually. Not that I think his career was in any way “destroyed”, just that his judgement wasn’t as sound as it might have been for an artist of his stature. If he had been more self-indulgent, that is, less concerned with how it would play on the radio or be received by the young, then the work may have aged much better. I'm nowhere near as big a fan of Bowie as I am Prince, but I think that Outside stands up better than TGE in retrospect, for example.

[Edited 1/18/22 11:17am]

fen said:

fen said:

Wolfie87 said:

Marky Mark and The Funky Bunch got a video game instantly on Sega-CD back in 1992. Together with C+C Music Factory.

Really popular acts generally got some kind of merchandising while they were hot. Like Beatle wigs, Donny & Marie dolls, or a Duran Duran board game. Kris Kross had a home video game too and Aerosmith had an arcade game around that time and there was Michael Jackson's Moonwalker. I think the first music based one was Journey Escape from the early 1980s