TruthBomb said:

Vannormal said:

There, there...

First of all it's is not 'garbage', it is much respected documentary, and it is a great plus knowing that Paisley Park is ready to show more recognition and a much more needed positive appraoch towards equality and human acceptance.

Far more than Prince would've dar to admit during his lesser religous influenced and ucertain era.

Concerning this issue he was more than often wrong (too). He wasn't a saint. He was mere human, thankfully.

And fyi, Prince was more 'woke' before the term was even invented.

Although he swinged 'between the difference of right and wrong', as it suited him.

Also, very human imho.

Peace though.

.. . CORRECTION PRINCE WAS NEVER WOKE! AWAKE YES BUT NEVER EVER WOKE. BIG DIFFERENCE

Whatever you think.

I dare to say Prince wasn't always very awake (in whatever he stated later on in his life).

He was/became somwhat a conservative guy I dare to say.

Not old fashioned conservative.

But certainly not a modern day democrat either imho. lol

Nothing wrong with WOKE though.

It seems to be a wannabe positive movement for the youngsters of today.

Like in every new era, or with every new generation, there's need to feel different.

I need to know a bit more about it before I can have a true opinion.

Vannormal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No they cannot, if they want PP to be what it was. Prince still said what he wanted PP to be, that is enough.

There are so many other places to play the PIS documentary(which I enjoy).
Have they played SOTT or Under the Cherry Moon at Paisley Park yet? How about any released Prince concerts?

That's what should be shown at Paisley Park and then release them on DVD/for purchase.

A listening party before Deluxe is released etc

It's a F you to Prince

I didn't even like when associates:band members used Prince/Purple/Minneapolis to push a vote.

On past November 20th, the showed UTCM movie for a 35th aniversary celbration at Paisley Park.

And often during tours, they show an assembled video with various known and unseen Prince concert snippets.

St Paul Peterson showed some on his instagram page while hosting a tour there recently.

seriously, the vast majority of their events and operations revolve around Prince and his art. The fact that someone would be offended by the occasional showing of outsiders' work is silly as hell. I respect Prince's individuality and his contributions to the world, but I don't respect his homophobia/conservatism, nor do I think PP needs to adhere to that one aspect of his life and personality going forward.

mbdtyler said:

Vannormal said:

On past November 20th, the showed UTCM movie for a 35th aniversary celbration at Paisley Park.

And often during tours, they show an assembled video with various known and unseen Prince concert snippets.

St Paul Peterson showed some on his instagram page while hosting a tour there recently.

seriously, the vast majority of their events and operations revolve around Prince and his art. The fact that someone would be offended by the occasional showing of outsiders' work is silly as hell. I respect Prince's individuality and his contributions to the world, but I don't respect his homophobia/conservatism, nor do I think PP needs to adhere to that one aspect of his life and personality going forward.

it's not offended. and it sure isn't silly as hell especially with the idea that some might see it as a F You to Prince

Prince would not be flying the lgbt... flag and most likely would not show gay documentaries at PP

It's still HIS place

OldFriends4Sale said:

mbdtyler said:

seriously, the vast majority of their events and operations revolve around Prince and his art. The fact that someone would be offended by the occasional showing of outsiders' work is silly as hell. I respect Prince's individuality and his contributions to the world, but I don't respect his homophobia/conservatism, nor do I think PP needs to adhere to that one aspect of his life and personality going forward.

it's not offended. and it sure isn't silly as hell especially with the idea that some might see it as a F You to Prince

Prince would not be flying the lgbt... flag and most likely would not show gay documentaries at PP

It's still HIS place

Nah, it's definitely silly. Just like it's silly to frame an inclusive documentary as a "Fuck You" to a dead artist, when it's not about spiting Prince, it's about celebrating the culture of a marginalized group. The real "Fuck You" was Prince treating a whole demographic of human beings as lesser people because he was personally uncomfortable with their sexual orientation and identity. Especially when that same demographic helped pave the way for his stylistic choices early in his career.

Don't forget, Prince had no problem playing up the whole "maybe I'm gay/bi, maybe I'm not" thing early on when the controversy boosted his career and gave him punk cred. For him to shut the door on any kind of LGBTQ expression later on (let alone disparaging the community) after it was no longer beneficial to him is stupidly hypocritical, so as I said before, I think this screening is fair game.

Prince's 'HOUSE' and legacy is his. Don't 'fuck you' to Prince

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince's 'HOUSE' and legacy is his. Don't 'fuck you' to Prince

I'm guessing you missed when I said:

Just like it's silly to frame an inclusive documentary as a "Fuck You" to a dead artist, when it's not about spiting Prince, it's about celebrating the culture of a marginalized group

OldFriends4Sale said:

mbdtyler said:

seriously, the vast majority of their events and operations revolve around Prince and his art. The fact that someone would be offended by the occasional showing of outsiders' work is silly as hell. I respect Prince's individuality and his contributions to the world, but I don't respect his homophobia/conservatism, nor do I think PP needs to adhere to that one aspect of his life and personality going forward.

it's not offended. and it sure isn't silly as hell especially with the idea that some might see it as a F You to Prince

Prince would not be flying the lgbt... flag and most likely would not show gay documentaries at PP

It's still HIS place

I agree.

-

But, for a guy singing ''peace is much more than the absence of war'',

he consiously and somehow blindly followed Larry's believes for not caring all that much anymore for the minorities he once supported in the song 'Uptown'.

Paisley Park WAS his place and the world is moving on, preferably in peace, without division, still keeping his musical spirit high. And that is fa rmore important.

Cause Prince was besides all that genius just a mere human making mistakes (too).

paisleypark4 said:

Vannormal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

it's not offended. and it sure isn't silly as hell especially with the idea that some might see it as a F You to Prince

Prince would not be flying the lgbt... flag and most likely would not show gay documentaries at PP

It's still HIS place

I agree.

-

But, for a guy singing ''peace is much more than the absence of war'',

he consiously and somehow blindly followed Larry's believes for not caring all that much anymore for the minorities he once supported in the song 'Uptown'.

Paisley Park WAS his place and the world is moving on, preferably in peace, without division, still keeping his musical spirit high. And that is fa rmore important.

Cause Prince was besides all that genius just a mere human making mistakes (too).

I don't think Prince blindly followed Larry's beliefs. His evolution was just a bigger manifestation of who he was already.

Prince has written, arranged, performed and produced three albums to date (For You, Prince and Dirty Mind), all presenting the same unique persona. Appearances to the contrary, though, he says he's not gay, and he has a standard rebuff for overenthusiastic male fans: "I'm not about that; we can be friends, but that's as far as it goes. My sexual preferences really aren't any of their business." ROLLING STONE, FEBRUARY 19, 1981


This opens a question on what is considered 'gay' expression and 'str8' expression. A man can be 'effeminate' and be heterosexual as a man can be very masculine and be homosexual.

.
How did he not care for people who were gay/lesbian? He became JW in late 90s, 2001-2016 He was still friends with Lisa & Wendy. 2007 at the Target Center show he calls Wendy his best friend while they are on stage etc

.

As this person indicated, they like that it was a kind of Fuck You to Prince, which is 100% wrong and like some other things I don't agree with using Prince

.

OldFriends4Sale said:

.

THIS

Also didnt he write a whole song on the 1999 Deluxe release dedicated to a non binary / bi person? A title of which I cannot retype on this computer lol

Hamad said:

Also, stop using Larry Graham as a scapegoat for whatever happened in Prince’ life to cover up your hatred toward him. Prince was a grown man who had full agency & independence, he chose who he wanted near him and who should be out. Blaming Larry for Prince’ religious views is such a shallow & a prejudiced statement, Prince has always been conservative at his core, and he has always been on a spiritual search, he was public about it via his music for God’s sakes. Being a JW is what finally resonated with him personally and his spiritual journey, who are you to approve or disapprove? Who are you to change him into a persona that YOU are comfortable with? The brazen self entitlement in this fandom is so cringe-worthy & disturbing.

I have to say you're right of using Larry or anyone else personally as a scapegoat.

I admid.

In fact, I have no hatret towards Larry, I don't know him. But towards the JW as an institution, yes I do.

A dear friend of mind once lost himself in their believes, got smarter and wanted to leave.

Not long after he left he killed himself due to their mean hunt and unhuman treatment afterwards concerning his family.

-

Yes Prince has always been conservative (in his believes), and I did not always have problems with that.

'Lovesexy' is one of my all time favorite albums even.

Yes he resonated with JW, but kinda slowly moved away from it, at least in his lyrics later on it seemed.

I found that a positive sign tbh. Shame he could not live longer to show more clearness towards this all.

Don't think I would change Prince in a persona that would fit me. I don't.

Yes I do like the Prince that trigggers me, and vice versa. Which is obvious I should say.

Same with his albums, eras even, we all have that.

I disapprove religion in general cause I believe it suffocates people in their devellopment - at least, that is what I experienced and not only just once.

But I agree in what you point at; this sort of disturbing factor is indeed not necessary in a public forum (anymore), and I will pay attention to it.

Don't bother to bash me if I'm off again. I can take it if it's right.

[Edited 12/9/21 8:57am]

Hamad said:

Hamad said:

Also, stop using Larry Graham as a scapegoat for whatever happened in Prince’ life to cover up your hatred toward him. Prince was a grown man who had full agency & independence, he chose who he wanted near him and who should be out. Blaming Larry for Prince’ religious views is such a shallow & a prejudiced statement, Prince has always been conservative at his core, and he has always been on a spiritual search, he was public about it via his music for God’s sakes. Being a JW is what finally resonated with him personally and his spiritual journey, who are you to approve or disapprove? Who are you to change him into a persona that YOU are comfortable with? The brazen self entitlement in this fandom is so cringe-worthy & disturbing.

Yeah, the Larry scapegoating is a cop out. Prince genuinely loved the guy and obviously seemed to need whatever LG/JW was offerring at the time and it obviously landed hard. I don't have a problem with any of it beyond people postulating that they have some unique inside track to some sort of ultimate truth.

And that goes for anyone peddling anything from ancient scriptures to Amway "Independent Business Ownership", Financial Planners, Life Coaches or almost any politician. No one has all the answers.

The trick to life, for me anyway, is being able to admit that and still be able to deal with the fear and insecurity that goes along with it but one's mileage may vary there. No one knows what happens when we die or what "god" wants us to do while we're alive and I'm suspicious of people who claim to know that they do.

This is just me so you guys do you (JW, LDS, Larry, Prince, Catholics, Born Agains) but kindly stay out of my lawmaking and knocking on my door pretending to sell answers, please.

Hamad said:

Also, stop using Larry Graham as a scapegoat for whatever happened in Prince’ life to cover up your hatred toward him. Prince was a grown man who had full agency & independence, he chose who he wanted near him and who should be out. Blaming Larry for Prince’ religious views is such a shallow & a prejudiced statement, Prince has always been conservative at his core, and he has always been on a spiritual search, he was public about it via his music for God’s sakes. Being a JW is what finally resonated with him personally and his spiritual journey, who are you to approve or disapprove? Who are you to change him into a persona that YOU are comfortable with? The brazen self entitlement in this fandom is so cringe-worthy & disturbing.

I'm not sure that I agree that Prince was always conservative at his core (I think that it was more of a genuine conflict). But yeah, scapegoating Larry is just unfair - we all have a tendency to surround ourselves with people who echo our own viewpoints.

Organized religion is nothing but a way to control you. I believe in a higher power but I don't need to go to a certain building, be with other like-minded people and listen to someone preach to make me feel closer to that higher power. I know right from wrong and practice that in my daily life- that is said higher power working thru me.

herb4 said:

Hamad said:

I don't have a problem with any of it beyond people postulating that they have some unique inside track to some sort of ultimate truth.
And that goes for anyone peddling anything from ancient scriptures to Amway "Independent Business Ownership", Financial Planners, Life Coaches or almost any politician.

No one has all the answers.
The trick to life, for me anyway, is being able to admit that and still be able to deal with the fear and insecurity that goes along with it but one's mileage may vary there.

No one knows what happens when we die or what "god" wants us to do while we're alive and I'm suspicious of people who claim to know that they do.
This is just me so you guys do you (JW, LDS, Larry, Prince, Catholics, Born Agains) but kindly stay out of my lawmaking and knocking on my door pretending to sell answers, please.

Exactly !

Well said indeed.

-

The great song 'Dear God' by XTC comes to mind...

I am with Hamad on this subject, his words resonated with me in this thread.

I love "Paris Is Burning" but how the hell does it fit in with Paisley Park? Regardless of Prince's denial, I do believe he was gay but being gay does not connect someone to all things gay. "Paris Is Burning" was a disco/house scene as most gay clubs were. Back in my clubbing years, I can count on one hand the amount of times I heard a Prince song in a gay club. Prince was more funk/rock, a totally different sound and look from "Paris Is Burning". While Prince may have had a lot of dance moves, they weren't the type of dances seen in "Paris Is Burning" such as vogueing. Madonna is the one that brought that scene to the mainstream, not Prince.

.

Paisley Park should be strictly Prince related only and nothing else. Concerts should only be from the acts he created or worked with. Films should be only the films he made. Yeah, he only made four films but if he videotaped all his concerts, hell, they could hold events around showing various concerts he performed. With all the unreleased music he has in the vault, they could hold various events playing unreleased music that hasn't been released yet to see public reaction which might give them ideas on what to release next. Kinda like back when Prince used to bring a new track and have the DJ play it at First Avenue to see how well it would do. With all the unreleased stuff, there should be plenty of material to give them ideas of Prince related events without having to resort to having events that have absolutely nothing to do with Prince simply to keep the building from being dark every night.

.

When you start doing things that have nothing to do with the original theme, it leads to another, and then another....and then another. Then it continues until the original theme no longer exists. Look at MTV for example. They started with one reality show, then another, then another.....and then another.....until music videos no longer exist on MTV and it no longer serves the purpose of what it was invented for. Unrelated Prince events at Paisley Park could eventually lead to the building just being a generic venue that has nothing to do with Prince whatsoever. I bet they don't have unrelated Elvis events at Graceland.

vainandy said:

I love "Paris Is Burning" but how the hell does it fit in with Paisley Park? Regardless of Prince's denial, I do believe he was gay but being gay does not connect someone to all things gay. "Paris Is Burning" was a disco/house scene as most gay clubs were. Back in my clubbing years, I can count on one hand the amount of times I heard a Prince song in a gay club. Prince was more funk/rock, a totally different sound and look from "Paris Is Burning". While Prince may have had a lot of dance moves, they weren't the type of dances seen in "Paris Is Burning" such as vogueing. Madonna is the one that brought that scene to the mainstream, not Prince.

.

Paisley Park should be strictly Prince related only and nothing else. Concerts should only be from the acts he created or worked with. Films should be only the films he made. Yeah, he only made four films but if he videotaped all his concerts, hell, they could hold events around showing various concerts he performed. With all the unreleased music he has in the vault, they could hold various events playing unreleased music that hasn't been released yet to see public reaction which might give them ideas on what to release next. Kinda like back when Prince used to bring a new track and have the DJ play it at First Avenue to see how well it would do. With all the unreleased stuff, there should be plenty of material to give them ideas of Prince related events without having to resort to having events that have absolutely nothing to do with Prince simply to keep the building from being dark every night.

.

When you start doing things that have nothing to do with the original theme, it leads to another, and then another....and then another. Then it continues until the original theme no longer exists. Look at MTV for example. They started with one reality show, then another, then another.....and then another.....until music videos no longer exist on MTV and it no longer serves the purpose of what it was invented for. Unrelated Prince events at Paisley Park could eventually lead to the building just being a generic venue that has nothing to do with Prince whatsoever. I bet they don't have unrelated Elvis events at Graceland.

Actually, they do have unrelated Elvis events at Graceland- there's a Disney-themed event happening going on thru January.

Exhibition Center | Graceland

kingricefan said:

Organized religion is nothing but a way to control you. I believe in a higher power but I don't need to go to a certain building, be with other like-minded people and listen to someone preach to make me feel closer to that higher power. I know right from wrong and practice that in my daily life- that is said higher power working thru me.

this is about Prince and Paisley Park

paisleypark4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

.

THIS

Also didnt he write a whole song on the 1999 Deluxe release dedicated to a non binary / bi person? A title of which I cannot retype on this computer lol

VAGINA

vainandy said:

I love "Paris Is Burning" but how the hell does it fit in with Paisley Park? Regardless of Prince's denial, I do believe he was gay but being gay does not connect someone to all things gay. "Paris Is Burning" was a disco/house scene as most gay clubs were. Back in my clubbing years, I can count on one hand the amount of times I heard a Prince song in a gay club. Prince was more funk/rock, a totally different sound and look from "Paris Is Burning". While Prince may have had a lot of dance moves, they weren't the type of dances seen in "Paris Is Burning" such as vogueing. Madonna is the one that brought that scene to the mainstream, not Prince.

.

Paisley Park should be strictly Prince related only and nothing else. Concerts should only be from the acts he created or worked with. Films should be only the films he made. Yeah, he only made four films but if he videotaped all his concerts, hell, they could hold events around showing various concerts he performed. With all the unreleased music he has in the vault, they could hold various events playing unreleased music that hasn't been released yet to see public reaction which might give them ideas on what to release next. Kinda like back when Prince used to bring a new track and have the DJ play it at First Avenue to see how well it would do. With all the unreleased stuff, there should be plenty of material to give them ideas of Prince related events without having to resort to having events that have absolutely nothing to do with Prince simply to keep the building from being dark every night.

.

When you start doing things that have nothing to do with the original theme, it leads to another, and then another....and then another. Then it continues until the original theme no longer exists. Look at MTV for example. They started with one reality show, then another, then another.....and then another.....until music videos no longer exist on MTV and it no longer serves the purpose of what it was invented for. Unrelated Prince events at Paisley Park could eventually lead to the building just being a generic venue that has nothing to do with Prince whatsoever. I bet they don't have unrelated Elvis events at Graceland.

This is perfectly stated (except I don't believe he was gay lol)

Going off topic a bit I suppose, Paris is Burning documents this amazing group of people surviving and thriving in the late 80s early 90s and so many of them never saw the millenium. I just think back to my youth at all these (mostly people of colour, mostly gay) who were ready to change things up were obliterated by AIDS, crack and murder.

If there is one reason to see this film it is to celebrate them and to encourage the present or next generation not to get bogged in all the bad and keep going.