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Reply #30 posted 09/19/21 8:15am

automatic

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The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?
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Reply #31 posted 09/19/21 8:23am

tab32792

jfenster said:

so it was him... not wendy and lisa who made prince...


Hahahahahaha
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Reply #32 posted 09/19/21 8:23am

tab32792

TrivialPursuit said:

Some of his claims statements:

"I produced the song “Kiss” and co-wrote. He presented that song in a very gutted form, it was just his voice with a guitar. And he gave that to me on a cassette and I made that song into what it is today."

"I gave him energy. He would always watch my moves. In some of the videos, he’ll be looking over at me with the side of his eye to see what I’m doing."

"I could do the Michael Jackson spins. I choreographed the group. So I could dance and move like a frontman on the bass."

The rest is in the article.


Forbes





Oh god 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️
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Reply #33 posted 09/19/21 8:26am

tab32792

kingricefan said:

So according to BM the Revolution made Prince a world wide superstar more famous than MJ and that anything Prince did after he disbanded the Revolution didn't count for anything.....(things that make you go hmmmmm)




Exactly. More bullshit. They just have the convenience of being around during his commercial peak. Not to mention they’re in the movie and they aesthetically fit his crossover vision. Once he crossed over, noticed a lot of things changed
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Reply #34 posted 09/19/21 8:27am

tab32792

TrivialPursuit said:

Some of his claims statements:

"I produced the song “Kiss” and co-wrote. He presented that song in a very gutted form, it was just his voice with a guitar. And he gave that to me on a cassette and I made that song into what it is today."

"I gave him energy. He would always watch my moves. In some of the videos, he’ll be looking over at me with the side of his eye to see what I’m doing."

"I could do the Michael Jackson spins. I choreographed the group. So I could dance and move like a frontman on the bass."

The rest is in the article.


Forbes





He didn’t co write anything. He MAY have helped with producing but as far as we know David Z did it all. Brown mark added bass if nothing else which was taken out of the final version so what did he do? Lol
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Reply #35 posted 09/19/21 8:27am

tab32792

TrivialPursuit said:



GustavoRibas said:


.


Production, arrangement and composition are separate things. Composition is all about melody (first) and sometimes, riffs, motifs, etc. And that ´Kiss´ tape had the full melody and harmony.
.


But I agree that the production and arrangements made the song exciting. David Z is the only one credited as an arranger, and maybe it wasnt fair to the other guys. But the songwriting is Prince´s.





I'm not defending anyone here, just asking: but wasn't the song lacking a lot of the lyrics we now know? It was pretty short and stunted in comparison to the album version. So, did David Z or Brownmark write any extra lyrics? Did Prince? We know they were all there in Mazarati's version.

To bwaatch's point, "we" is often just a way of saying "I," and including everyone else in the process. MJ didn't make Thriller. "We" did - Q, MJ, Toto, etc. Ya know?

It's hard to know how much Brownmark actually contributed because despite his many interviews when Prince was alive, David Z. always said he's the one who gated that guitar in the hi-hat, etc; that they didn't quite know what to do with it at first, then started really fucking around with it and chopping it up. Sorta makes me wonder, did BM not say he did that song because he knew Prince would've shot him down or something? I mean, a dead man tells no tales, so he's quite free to bend history in his own way.




They told Prince they didn’t have a second verse and he quickly wrote one
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Reply #36 posted 09/19/21 8:29am

tab32792

TrivialPursuit said:



milesb said:


I suspect Prince would have been equally as great with or without Brownmark. Some of Prince's best music and best live performances were without Brownmark. No disrespect to Brownmark, and he may have been taken out of context, but I think Prince's greatness is probably unrelated to Brownmark. "Shall We Dance" is a great song Prince did for him. I rate it as one of the best protege tunes.




There's no way, at the time, Brownmark could've stood up to what Levi did for Madhouse, Sign O The Times or Lovesexy. Levi's playing was exemplary. Levi was also a more versatile player, bouncing from guitar or bass when needed. Did Mark know how to efficiently play guitar in 1984? Don't know.

Levi stuck with Prince for a good stretch, 1987-1993. Mark was there from what - 81-86? I mean, it's not a contest, but clearly the vibe wasn't there as much as portrayed. I don't remember Levi, Andre, Sonny, Rhonda, Ida, or anyone else being dropped kicked by Prince. Prince even hailed Sonny as one of his childhood heroes.

I'm not taking away from Mark being a good bass player, but if he was that good...

So yeah, Prince was great before, during, and after Brownmark's five-year stint. Prince was still kind to him, letting him rehearse at Paisley Park, and even use that set that Prince was going to possibly use for a new tour (the legs). But Mark needs to stop embellishing shit. We got Sheila for that.





All of this!
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Reply #37 posted 09/19/21 8:34am

tab32792

automatic said:

The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?



This. Saw them in Philly and they were sloppy as hell but…nostalgia always wins
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Reply #38 posted 09/19/21 9:20am

RODSERLING

tab32792 said:

automatic said:

The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?



This. Saw them in Philly and they were sloppy as hell but…nostalgia always wins


I agree it's not a good band without Prince. Brown Mark was good though, he had sheer energy on stage.
Wendy amd Lisa were on pilot automatic, it was ludicrous.

But still, it was good to them.
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Reply #39 posted 09/19/21 9:40am

ChocolateBox31
21

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One thing BrownMark is right about is Prince(r.i.p.) didn't give him a chance to shine in The Revolution. When I saw them live he barely acknowledged Mark on stage.

When The Revolution toured after Prince(r.i.p.) transitioned. Mark REALLY stood out on stage with his charisma and showmanship.

I actually felt sorry for Mark & identified with him when I read his book. He took A LOT of abuse. Everybody has their side of the story & is aloud to reveal it. Whether peeps agree with it or not.

"That mountain top situation is not really what it's all cracked up 2 B when eye was doing the Purple Rain tour eye had a lot of people who eye knew eye'll never c again @ the concerts.just screamin n places they thought they was suppose 2 scream."prince
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Reply #40 posted 09/20/21 12:47am

TrivialPursuit

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lurker316 said:

@BartVanHemlen,

I think you misunderstood TrivalPursuit's point. I believe he was saying that if Brownmark was truly the mastermind behind Kiss, at some point over the years David Z would have made that clear -- but never once, in all of David Z's interview, did he give Brownmark that much credit.

The article you cite proves TrivalPursuit's point. In that interview, the only credit David Z gives Brownmark is laying down the bass line. That'a far cry from Brownmark's claim. So if you included that link believing it rebutted TrivialPursuit, you were mistaken.



Correct on all counts.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #41 posted 09/20/21 2:44am

Vannormal

jfenster said:

so it was him... not wendy and lisa who made prince...

-

And, please, let us all skip the unneaded band members bashing.

It's old, irrelevant and very tiring

Peace though.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #42 posted 09/20/21 3:18am

Vannormal

tab32792 said:

automatic said:
The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?
This. Saw them in Philly and they were sloppy as hell but…nostalgia always wins

-

Obviously, these kind of criteria will now be used against whomever liked it.

And which will/might not be able to be refuted. LOL icon_wink.gif

-

Prince, who himself has more than often praised the importance of his then band members over more then four decades in multiple interviews.

Although intern, about collaborations and recognitions, he wasn't always that clear too. Not even in the credits from what we know.

Prince was way too strong in charge, and didn't leave much leeway and opportunity for these bandmates to confirm that.

He had them strictly under contract, as is known.

-

[Edited 9/20/21 3:24am]

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #43 posted 09/20/21 3:23am

Vannormal

Vannormal said:

tab32792 said:

automatic said: This. Saw them in Philly and they were sloppy as hell but…nostalgia always wins

-

Obviously, these kind of criteria will now be used against whomever liked it.

And which will/might not be able to be refuted. LOL wink

-

Prince, who himself has more than often praised the importance of his then band members over more then four decades in multiple interviews.

Although intern, about collaborations and recognitions, he wasn't always that clear too. Not even in the credits from what we know.

Prince was way too strong in charge, and didn't leave much leeway and opportunity for these bandmates to confirm that.

He had them strictly under contract, as is known.

-

-

Mark as well as David Z have their stories to tell.

Thing will eventually come out, if so.

Time has not that much importance here, saying 'he could've told that earlier', etc.

Be happy stories are being told, and that we all can make up our own minds if you like.

All thes bits of info, make it all the more clear how complex it all was.

Prince was never ever clear about anything in fact as far we all can understand.

He made a job out of it, to not make things crytal clear.

-

[Edited 9/20/21 3:27am]

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #44 posted 09/20/21 4:52pm

jfenster

Vannormal said:



jfenster said:


so it was him... not wendy and lisa who made prince...



-


And, please, let us all skip the unneaded band members bashing.


It's old, irrelevant and very tiring


Peace though.


-


At least it gives a cheap thrill to the w and l fanatics
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Reply #45 posted 09/20/21 5:27pm

LoveGalore

"Kiss" is the closest BM has come to having a discernible contribution to Prince's catalog and most of his contribution to that itself was removed. Yikes. But I guess if that is the one thread you can pull, it gives him something to talk about in interviews. Usually it's W&L who dominate the conversation with their illustrious and penetrative relationship with Prince.
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Reply #46 posted 09/21/21 10:44am

Se7en

avatar

automatic said:

The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?


I for one am glad they reformed after Prince's death. It was nice hearing them live. Wendy didn't nail the Purple Rain solo quite as well and Prince did, but I enjoyed the whole thing.

I think their reunion/tribute tour should have probably been the end of it though. I don't want to hear anything "new" from them though, as it will not have anything to do with Prince.


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Reply #47 posted 09/22/21 6:54am

Vannormal

Se7en said:

automatic said:

The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?


I for one am glad they reformed after Prince's death. It was nice hearing them live. Wendy didn't nail the Purple Rain solo quite as well and Prince did, but I enjoyed the whole thing.

I think their reunion/tribute tour should have probably been the end of it though. I don't want to hear anything "new" from them though, as it will not have anything to do with Prince.


-

Oh I for one really am curious to hear something new from them if they plan so.

Of course it doesn't have anything to do with Prince anymore, obvious.

And why shouldn't they do new music together, as a band ?

Are they not alowed together to do that ?

Because they once were connected with Prince ?

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #48 posted 09/22/21 8:12am

Se7en

avatar

Vannormal said:

Se7en said:


I for one am glad they reformed after Prince's death. It was nice hearing them live. Wendy didn't nail the Purple Rain solo quite as well and Prince did, but I enjoyed the whole thing.

I think their reunion/tribute tour should have probably been the end of it though. I don't want to hear anything "new" from them though, as it will not have anything to do with Prince.


-

Oh I for one really am curious to hear something new from them if they plan so.

Of course it doesn't have anything to do with Prince anymore, obvious.

And why shouldn't they do new music together, as a band ?

Are they not alowed together to do that ?

Because they once were connected with Prince ?

-


I never said they weren't allowed to . . . just personally I probably would not be interested in that, that's all.

I'll say this, hearing them play all of the old Revolution songs live . . . they were tight!

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Reply #49 posted 09/23/21 10:11pm

Graycap23

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TrivialPursuit said:

Some of his claims statements:

"I produced the song “Kiss” and co-wrote. He presented that song in a very gutted form, it was just his voice with a guitar. And he gave that to me on a cassette and I made that song into what it is today."

"I gave him energy. He would always watch my moves. In some of the videos, he’ll be looking over at me with the side of his eye to see what I’m doing."

"I could do the Michael Jackson spins. I choreographed the group. So I could dance and move like a frontman on the bass."

The rest is in the article.


Forbes

lol.........Cocaine is a helluva drug.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #50 posted 09/24/21 1:55am

Vannormal

automatic said:

The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?

-

And that is just 'another opinion', for whatever it's worth. wink

He actually never wrote a hit. It's a irrelevant remark to stzte that.

Cause he & David Z (& Prince) turned a Prince song into what it is today.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #51 posted 09/24/21 2:38am

Vannormal

TrivialPursuit said:

Mumio said:

I don't believe any of them. I'm fed up with the after-death stories from those folks.


I believe there's something to be said for the statement, "when you hear the truth, you know it," or "if it doesn't make sense, it's not true."

Now, that probably goes more for things in life when it comes to personal morality, convictions, and spirituality - things like that. But I do believe it's certainly a tool for situations like these. Sure, there are a dozen things plus another dozen we don't know about Prince, or anyone around him that knew him or worked for him. But there's also a moment when you think, "wait... what?"

When I hear Mark saying he made "Kiss" what it is today, that doesn't ring true. Because at any given time he could've said that. David Z. or any of the howevermany members of Mazarti could have said that. But they didn't. No one did until ol' boy was dead, gone and the ink was barely dry on the death certificate. Then it's a good time to go back and talk about what a big wig ya were in the band. Bruh, settle down. Sure, you were there for Purple Rain. Sure, you were in probably the most popular configuration of a Prince band. It was Z who got the "associate producer" credit, at best. It sure makes a good "oh yeah, well that's true" backup plan to say "he never wanted to let me shine."

OKAY THEN. We haven't heard the truth here, and I think that's why most of us are having the same reaction to his statements. I keep waiting for David Z or someone to set lil' man straight.

-

No one could talk openly when Prince was still alive.

We never know what kind of contract they signed... just that as an example.

Nothing is ever clear. Certainly not when he was alive, and still up to this day, we get now and then a piece of that giant puzzle.

-

Actually, does the real truth really matter in all it's factual corrections in this big picture of Prince, when it comes to older stries being told post-Prince?!

For me, all these stories have another importantce, not in what they litteraly say.

These stories do mater to me.

It's not about the weight of the truth or the actual facts of any story concerning Prince imho.

That became obvious after all these years and all these additional information we now can enjoy, which wasn't the case when he was in charge.

It's about the intensity how they are told. It'll always be a complex and unfinished story.

All this post-Prince information says so much more about Prince than they do about those who come out and tell the stories. And everyone probably has his or her reasons for the timing.

-

I read it like this;

When Prince was young and fierce, it was him who was the magnet, found them, and pulled the bunch along with him as far as he pleased - till he got bored, or things became too personal up and close.

They jumped on the high speed train of fame-to-become, called Prince.

They were young! Very Young!! All of 'm. Let's keep that in mind first.

Prince's songwriting skills were very good from a very early stage on, but sure, as a young wild foal he had the nerve to grab and borrow (read steal if you like) whatever came his way.

And if he wanted somthing, he'd get it, or you'd be out.

He was very aware of persuasiveness and power.

How many times did he for some unclear reason not give credit for those who participated on songs?

Or even weirder, why did he credited songs to others who had nothing to do with that song, etc.

Sure he had his reasons, and sometimes he wanted to do good - whatever.

Certainly in his early days (when they all were young - again, keep that in mind) he had the nerve, somehow knew how to take advantage of the situation imho.

He did not do this when he got older - or after he became a star iirc.

AS far as i know there are no other stories like this from the 90's on.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

-

It's obvious that some of his entourage had great writing skills and musical talents too.

But only Prince had it all to become a star.

Those with talent who left the Prince camp early did not got that far either.

Only Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were capable of building a big career out of it.

-

Prince had the combination of a harsh unclear character and unprecedented perseverance.

He was very seductive and good looking (also important), combined with super talents, highly skilled and must'v ehad a good radar.

Combine all that with his known self convidence, guts and nerve, and a good dose of mistrust,

it's all these things and probably much more that made him do it.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #52 posted 09/25/21 6:54am

muleFunk

avatar

PennyPurple said:

Mumio said:

I don't believe any of them. I'm fed up with the after-death stories from those folks.

That makes 2 of us.

According to most of them Prince did nothing but sing. They wrote, they produced, they made up the dances, they did it all. rolleyes

Count me in as the 3rd.

If you were that good you would have had a hit song or two.

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Reply #53 posted 09/30/21 7:53pm

26ten

Se7en said:



automatic said:


The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?


I for one am glad they reformed after Prince's death. It was nice hearing them live. Wendy didn't nail the Purple Rain solo quite as well and Prince did, but I enjoyed the whole thing.

I think their reunion/tribute tour should have probably been the end of it though. I don't want to hear anything "new" from them though, as it will not have anything to do with Prince.




I saw them at First Ave and they were great.

they had P's cycle and a lot of his family and friends there. Apollonia was there too - and Bilal guested on vocals for The Beautiful Ones and dear God he brought the f***in house down.

As a person who barely missed seeing P live it helped me a lot to see them so I really appreciate it.
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Reply #54 posted 10/01/21 7:56am

2freaky4church
1

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Sexy Purple Rain GIF

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #55 posted 10/01/21 5:38pm

26ten

26ten said:

Se7en said:



automatic said:


The Revolution should never have reformed after Prince's death. They really are an average band without him. They've ruined their mystique. It's sad hearing Brown Mark go on like this. Where were all his other hits after he stopped working with Prince?


I for one am glad they reformed after Prince's death. It was nice hearing them live. Wendy didn't nail the Purple Rain solo quite as well and Prince did, but I enjoyed the whole thing.

I think their reunion/tribute tour should have probably been the end of it though. I don't want to hear anything "new" from them though, as it will not have anything to do with Prince.




I saw them at First Ave and they were great.

they had P's cycle and a lot of his family and friends there. Apollonia was there too - and Bilal guested on vocals for The Beautiful Ones and dear God he brought the f***in house down.

As a person who barely missed seeing P live it helped me a lot to see them so I really appreciate it.


Anyone else see them at First Ave on that run?
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Reply #56 posted 10/02/21 1:04am

Hamad

avatar

Something in the water these Revolutions drink…
Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/QLH82
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Reply #57 posted 10/04/21 11:22am

Se7en

avatar

Hearing W&L talk about Purple Rain, Mountains, etc. . . . it's a bit off-putting even though they probably did have a substantial role in those songs. Even ATWIAD was something from David Coleman. So what they're saying is not that far-fetched.

BrownMark's comments about Kiss . . . yeah David Z. rearranged the song into mostly what we hear now. For Prince the song was a giveaway until he heard what David Z. did with it. I'd never read that BrownMark had any production input on it, but I'm no expert so who knows. He may have, but it was included under "Produced, Arranged, Performed, etc. by Prince And The Revolution" umbrella that Prince put on Parade.

Where I literally LOL is Apollonia saying that she wrote Manic Monday and The Glamorous Life.

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Reply #58 posted 10/08/21 4:15pm

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:



milesb said:


I suspect Prince would have been equally as great with or without Brownmark. Some of Prince's best music and best live performances were without Brownmark. No disrespect to Brownmark, and he may have been taken out of context, but I think Prince's greatness is probably unrelated to Brownmark. "Shall We Dance" is a great song Prince did for him. I rate it as one of the best protege tunes.




There's no way, at the time, Brownmark could've stood up to what Levi did for Madhouse, Sign O The Times or Lovesexy. Levi's playing was exemplary. Levi was also a more versatile player, bouncing from guitar or bass when needed. Did Mark know how to efficiently play guitar in 1984? Don't know.

Levi stuck with Prince for a good stretch, 1987-1993. Mark was there from what - 81-86? I mean, it's not a contest, but clearly the vibe wasn't there as much as portrayed. I don't remember Levi, Andre, Sonny, Rhonda, Ida, or anyone else being dropped kicked by Prince. Prince even hailed Sonny as one of his childhood heroes.

I'm not taking away from Mark being a good bass player, but if he was that good...

So yeah, Prince was great before, during, and after Brownmark's five-year stint. Prince was still kind to him, letting him rehearse at Paisley Park, and even use that set that Prince was going to possibly use for a new tour (the legs). But Mark needs to stop embellishing shit. We got Sheila for that.




Absolutely agree.

And I laughed to myself at the Sheila comment, yes!
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