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Thread started 07/14/21 8:11am

jdcxc

Prince’s Most Idiosyncratic Moves

Prince has made some crazy, baffling and revolutionary artistic/business/marketing moves...here are some of mine:

1. Demanding Full Control from Major Labels as an unsigned 17-18 year old.

2. Demanding not to be pigeonholed as a "Black" artist.

3. Dirty Mind image/musical change and everything associated with this project

4. Jamie Starr

5. Making a Hollywood movie as a neophyte

6. Undercutting PR with ATWIAD

7. Directing a Movie (a B&W old Hollywood screwball comedy at that)

8. Not Touring USA with the incredible SOTT Band

9. Name Change/Declaration of Independence

10. Destroying brilliant Black Album

Others?

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Reply #1 posted 07/14/21 8:24am

CAL3

jdcxc said:

Prince has made some crazy, baffling and revolutionary artistic/business/marketing moves...here are some of mine:



1. Demanding Full Control from Major Labels as an unsigned 17-18 year old.


2. Demanding not to be pigeonholed as a "Black" artist.


3. Dirty Mind image/musical change and everything associated with this project


4. Jamie Starr


5. Making a Hollywood movie as a neophyte


6. Undercutting PR with ATWIAD


7. Directing a Movie (a B&W old Hollywood screwball comedy at that)


8. Not Touring USA with the incredible SOTT Band


9. Name Change/Declaration of Independence


10. Destroying brilliant Black Album



Others?





.
Supporting censorship in the arts.
I’ve been informed that my opinion is worth less than those expressed by others here.
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Reply #2 posted 07/14/21 9:49am

Strive

Not allowing The Time or The Family to use their names when they tried to make albums away from him.

Telling Morris Day to retire and give his band over to his son.

"When you deny people the option to not pick a side, you may not like the side they'll pick."
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Reply #3 posted 07/14/21 1:40pm

ufoclub

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Taking down his website the day after getting a Webby award for it. That happened, didn't it?

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Reply #4 posted 07/15/21 2:54am

Vannormal

avatar

-

Live Aid 1985.

-

Attacking fans on youtube, and hunting bootleggers.

He should've watched over his own material in the first place.

-

Grafitti Bridge movie.

-

Religeous choices. All of them.

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Towards Wendy & Lisa; the homophobic behaviour.

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The New Power Generation.

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Warner dispute, and other label disputes.

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1999 the new master.

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The unsolved NPG Music Club promises.

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21 Nights in London instead of touring.

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Not promoting most of his 20 last albums live.

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The choice of single releases, and the lack of interesting B-sides.

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Larry Graham.

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Most Paisley park protege releases after 1987.

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ThirdEyeGirl & Joshua Welton.

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Not being open about what happened to his son in the Oprah interview...

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #5 posted 07/16/21 5:59pm

lurker316

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Vannormal said:

-

Not being open about what happened to his son in the Oprah interview...

-



I wouldn't characterize that as idiosyncratic. A lot of people even less private than Prince would be uncomfortable talking about that. Seemed reasonably normal to me and I won't judge him.



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Reply #6 posted 07/16/21 8:02pm

TraSoul82

I heard he changed his name to a symbol or something.
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Reply #7 posted 07/16/21 10:21pm

ForceofNature

Releasing "In A Large Room With No Light" in 2009 way after the fact as an inferior re-record, as opposed to back then with the sublime original version

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Reply #8 posted 07/17/21 5:21pm

ufoclub

avatar

lurker316 said:

Vannormal said:

-

Not being open about what happened to his son in the Oprah interview...

-



I wouldn't characterize that as idiosyncratic. A lot of people even less private than Prince would be uncomfortable talking about that. Seemed reasonably normal to me and I won't judge him.



It's one thing to not talk about it, but it's another to say everything was fine.

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Reply #9 posted 07/18/21 1:21am

Phase3

Attacking his own fan base by suing fans and having websites taken down
Not following up on promoted projects like the 3121 film
Started to follow trends in the early 90's.That kinda hurt his output for a while
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Reply #10 posted 07/18/21 11:49am

lurker316

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ufoclub said:

lurker316 said:



I wouldn't characterize that as idiosyncratic. A lot of people even less private than Prince would be uncomfortable talking about that. Seemed reasonably normal to me and I won't judge him.



It's one thing to not talk about it, but it's another to say everything was fine.


Saying everything is fine is a way of avoiding talking about it. I can't judge someone in his shoes how they would handle that.


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Reply #11 posted 07/19/21 2:00am

Wolfie87

Making his PR-tricks in the 80's into only able to play at sub-par venues like Wembley-arena (Not Stadium) or some indoor hall. He couldn't fill seats. That's why MJ and Madonna won.

Playing godlike guitar in front of 150-200 persons on some aftershow that no one cares about. Not in front of 100.000 people. That's why MJ and Madonna won.

Fucking ridiculous and horrendous decisions.
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Reply #12 posted 07/19/21 2:19am

Vannormal

avatar

lurker316 said:

Vannormal said:

-

Not being open about what happened to his son in the Oprah interview...

-



I wouldn't characterize that as idiosyncratic. A lot of people even less private than Prince would be uncomfortable talking about that. Seemed reasonably normal to me and I won't judge him.

-

I know.

This is a subject not easy to discuss here in words.

And I want to do this in all sincerity and restraint.

Know that it's not meant as a judgement from my part.

-

But he wanted mayte to get along with it because of his choices (and possible careermoves) tbh.

But I have no facts and no one really knows. So that's just my careful and humble opinion.

Show Business is absolutley not important for that matter.

He could've canceled it. Oprah would've understand that more than anything.

That's why i still think this a indiosyncratic character.

-

Did she actually knew ? I have no idea.

Oprah i mean...

-

[Edited 7/19/21 2:32am]

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #13 posted 07/19/21 8:48am

highcalonic

Wolfie87 said:

Making his PR-tricks in the 80's into only able to play at sub-par venues like Wembley-arena (Not Stadium) or some indoor hall. He couldn't fill seats. That's why MJ and Madonna won. Playing godlike guitar in front of 150-200 persons on some aftershow that no one cares about. Not in front of 100.000 people. That's why MJ and Madonna won. Fucking ridiculous and horrendous decisions.

Exactly the opposite for me, he was a popstar and an underground artist that loved to play music no matter what! that's what makes him so special.

Real music lovers don't enjoy Stadium...

"You can skate around the issue if you like,
But who's gonna get you high in the middle of the night?"
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Reply #14 posted 07/19/21 9:03am

Vannormal

avatar

highcalonic said:

Wolfie87 said:

Making his PR-tricks in the 80's into only able to play at sub-par venues like Wembley-arena (Not Stadium) or some indoor hall. He couldn't fill seats. That's why MJ and Madonna won. Playing godlike guitar in front of 150-200 persons on some aftershow that no one cares about. Not in front of 100.000 people. That's why MJ and Madonna won. Fucking ridiculous and horrendous decisions.

Exactly the opposite for me, he was a popstar and an underground artist that loved to play music no matter what! that's what makes him so special.

Real music lovers don't enjoy Stadium...

-

Nah, i kinda agree with Wolfie87.

Although later on during some of his Montruex gigs, he went a bit further than the PR-tricks.

But the 'new' of his earlier aftershow magicianship was already consumed by his rock star status.

He should've kept some hits, sure that, but he should've made some room for jammin' and less oo-wee-oo's and less 'Party' chants.

What I liked about these popular arena shows, were the constant different arrangements of the hits. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes less. But always surprising.

But Prince was more into makingconcert into a 'party' instead of showing what he was really good at. He could improvise at the spot.

True.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #15 posted 07/19/21 2:40pm

Wolfie87

Getting up on stage in 1983. That was the defining moment where MJ became the Hero and Prince Villain in America. Sad day indeed.
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Reply #16 posted 07/19/21 4:20pm

ufoclub

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Wolfie87 said:

Getting up on stage in 1983. That was the defining moment where MJ became the Hero and Prince Villain in America. Sad day indeed.

I don't think many people saw that. But al of America did see Jackson perform on We Are The World and Prince not... I still remember people hating on him back then in high school for that, and it really seemed to kill enthusiasm for him by regular folks.

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Reply #17 posted 07/22/21 3:16am

Vannormal

avatar

ufoclub said:

Wolfie87 said:

Getting up on stage in 1983. That was the defining moment where MJ became the Hero and Prince Villain in America. Sad day indeed.

I don't think many people saw that. But al of America did see Jackson perform on We Are The World and Prince not... I still remember people hating on him back then in high school for that, and it really seemed to kill enthusiasm for him by regular folks.

-

My opinion is that it also might've influenced the sales of his next ATWIAD album.

Altough i know thre is no proof. But the fact he did not participate really styed in the press for some time. Even when the We Are The World album was released, it was mentioned again.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #18 posted 07/22/21 5:49am

jjam

I thought this was going to be about his dance moves. I'm disappointed.

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Reply #19 posted 07/22/21 6:02am

highcalonic

Vannormal said:

highcalonic said:

Exactly the opposite for me, he was a popstar and an underground artist that loved to play music no matter what! that's what makes him so special.

Real music lovers don't enjoy Stadium...

-

Nah, i kinda agree with Wolfie87.

Although later on during some of his Montruex gigs, he went a bit further than the PR-tricks.

But the 'new' of his earlier aftershow magicianship was already consumed by his rock star status.

He should've kept some hits, sure that, but he should've made some room for jammin' and less oo-wee-oo's and less 'Party' chants.

What I liked about these popular arena shows, were the constant different arrangements of the hits. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes less. But always surprising.

But Prince was more into makingconcert into a 'party' instead of showing what he was really good at. He could improvise at the spot.

True.

-

My first aftershow was 1993.08.23 Barcelone, Estandard and the last was 2009.11.12 Paris, La Cigale and i was always waiting for it instead of regular shows often full of hits. This is where the surprises were, where the jams were so i cannot agree with you both.


"You can skate around the issue if you like,
But who's gonna get you high in the middle of the night?"
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Reply #20 posted 07/24/21 11:05pm

CAL3

lurker316 said:



Vannormal said:



-


Not being open about what happened to his son in the Oprah interview...


-





I wouldn't characterize that as idiosyncratic. A lot of people even less private than Prince would be uncomfortable talking about that. Seemed reasonably normal to me and I won't judge him.




.
Bingo. This is true.
.
And also, some kind people here seem to think that “idiosyncratic” means “things I don’t like/agree with.”
I’ve been informed that my opinion is worth less than those expressed by others here.
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Reply #21 posted 07/24/21 11:09pm

CAL3

After reading this Trainwreck thread it needs to be said…
.
Some of y’all need to crack a dictionary and learn what idiosyncratic means.
.
Spoiler alert: it’s NOT a synonym for “bad” “negative” or ill-advised.”
.
I’ve been informed that my opinion is worth less than those expressed by others here.
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Reply #22 posted 07/25/21 2:32pm

herb4

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I'm gonna say "almost all of them". He seemed to relish and thrive on it and I adored almost all of it and realy appreciate just how fucking bold he was. Overall, I found his "Most Idiosynractic Moves" to usually be the most fun. From the name change and right on down the line. I thought it was a hoot fomr top to bottom.

His lesser efforts, where he tried really hard to fit in and reach mainstream success were, to me, more embarassing than the "weird" shit he did and aside from the Super Bowl, Musicology and the R&RHoF thing, usually fucked him up worse to my eyes. I loved...LOVED...the strange games he played and how odd he sometimes got through the whole enitre run. It was part of the appeal for me and taught me to view things outside the box a lot in my life and live my life a little...different. He always kept me guessing and had something new happening. He was never boring. Or rarely boring anyways.

I read a critic one time call Prince "the world's most famous underground artist" and that label has always struck a chord with me. I think that, overall, his "moves" added more to his legend than detracted. He wouldn't be who he is without all that head scratching shit that made him mysterious (or frustrating depending on ones perspective). It added to his mystique and, somehow, his name, talent and presence always resonated over 3 or 4 decades.

The weirdest most idiosyncratic move of all that he pulled was dying of a god damned drug overdose of all fucking things when, by and large, I honestly don't think that was a big part of his routine. I suspect he made an exception for medicine that was "legal" as a person of his means could easily procure even if opioid pain meds were far more dangerous than weed, alcohol and a lot of other shit that he, by all accounts, wasn't that heavily into. There's been talk about cocaine but I think any musician in the 80's gets a bit of a pass for that given how ubiquitous it was and I genuinely think that Prince was not a fan of drug use.

Shit...sorry for the rant...

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Reply #23 posted 07/25/21 4:03pm

jdcxc

herb4 said:

I'm gonna say "almost all of them". He seemed to relish and thrive on it and I adored almost all of it and realy appreciate just how fucking bold he was. Overall, I found his "Most Idiosynractic Moves" to usually be the most fun. From the name change and right on down the line. I thought it was a hoot fomr top to bottom.

His lesser efforts, where he tried really hard to fit in and reach mainstream success were, to me, more embarassing than the "weird" shit he did and aside from the Super Bowl, Musicology and the R&RHoF thing, usually fucked him up worse to my eyes. I loved...LOVED...the strange games he played and how odd he sometimes got through the whole enitre run. It was part of the appeal for me and taught me to view things outside the box a lot in my life and live my life a little...different. He always kept me guessing and had something new happening. He was never boring. Or rarely boring anyways.

I read a critic one time call Prince "the world's most famous underground artist" and that label has always struck a chord with me. I think that, overall, his "moves" added more to his legend than detracted. He wouldn't be who he is without all that head scratching shit that made him mysterious (or frustrating depending on ones perspective). It added to his mystique and, somehow, his name, talent and presence always resonated over 3 or 4 decades.

The weirdest most idiosyncratic move of all that he pulled was dying of a god damned drug overdose of all fucking things when, by and large, I honestly don't think that was a big part of his routine. I suspect he made an exception for medicine that was "legal" as a person of his means could easily procure even if opioid pain meds were far more dangerous than weed, alcohol and a lot of other shit that he, by all accounts, wasn't that heavily into. There's been talk about cocaine but I think any musician in the 80's gets a bit of a pass for that given how ubiquitous it was and I genuinely think that Prince was not a fan of drug use.

Shit...sorry for the rant...


All Well Put. Even with the "weird shit" there always seemed to be a reason. For example, I always thought the name change was more about keeping him artistically free vs. a purely WB battle. How many Pop Stars completely cash in at the 20-year mark...Not Prince.

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Reply #24 posted 07/27/21 8:03am

delirious

Not releasing the Welcome to America album when it is fresh and finished while starting a tour called "Welcome to America".

[Edited 7/27/21 11:41am]

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