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Reply #30 posted 11/16/20 4:35am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Let the exploitation begin!
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Reply #31 posted 11/16/20 7:41am

udo

avatar

finnik said:

Prince is dead. Estate only got what they got. And they need to generate money in years to come.

.

Basically they have only one chance.

What would they have to generate enough interest in say 5, 10 or 20 years time?

Didn't they listen to the entire vault yet?

How much cheaper would it be to convince old/current fans to say 'here's my money, gimme what you got' than complete newcomers, stragers and the like?

The fans are getting older and fewer.

Even more so in in a few years time.

I guess/hope that they (Estate, WB, etc) are smart enough to come to the same conclusions.

.

For now on they can continue releasing overpriced Super Deluxe Editions. Until 2028. Good year to start releasing overpriced 50th Anniversary Editions with newly discovered previously unheard tracks.

.

nod

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #32 posted 11/16/20 8:41am

dm3857

This would work well for things like live performances, concerts, aftershows, soundchecks, rehearsals etc.. Because there is certaintly a market for those things but not the same market as the deluxe box sets. So ideally they continue to release deluxe sets with vault material, and then create some sort of website for the other goodies that have a smaller market.

.

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40 dollars a month would obviously be way too much, but they could set it up as a pay per download type system.

.

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Bruce Springsteen has this for his fans and its an incredible set up. https://live.brucespringsteen.net/

[Edited 11/16/20 8:42am]

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Reply #33 posted 11/16/20 9:24am

finnik

udo said:

What would they have to generate enough interest in say 5, 10 or 20 years time?


Didn't they listen to the entire vault yet?


How much cheaper would it be to convince old/current fans to say 'here's my money, gimme what you got' than complete newcomers, stragers and the like?


The fans are getting older and fewer.


Even more so in in a few years time.


I don’t think that anyone in that business give a damn about fans. There’ll be new fans willing to purchase new releases. People come and go. It is sad that some die-hard fans will never hear some stuff, but this is something to be expected.

Look at discographies of Frank Zappa or Jimi Hendrix. They died in 1993 and 1970 respectively. Their posthumous discographies are still growing.

Personally I see no chance that those in charge of Vault will do anything that varies from what they’re doing right now.


dm3857 said:

Bruce Springsteen has this for his fans and its an incredible set up.


Willie Nelson and King Crimson also offering the same thing. Maybe we will see something like that. But certainly not streaming.
[Edited 11/16/20 9:25am]
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Reply #34 posted 11/16/20 10:54am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

P in his lifetime didn't care for the vault in respect of releasing new material. We got 2 albums from there before he died, Crystal Ball from '98 whose intention, you could argue, was to contradict the bootleggers and Old Friends 4 Sale, a contractual obligation which he was against releasing, so I recall.

We should be grateful for any new vault releases from here on in, because it will turn out to be a helluva lot more than would've got released, were he still here. Something to contemplate, if easily given to a pedantic response, myself included.

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Reply #35 posted 11/16/20 1:54pm

Milty2

I think the Estate needs to so something about the making the catalogue more available whether that be vault or live material but all they need to do is look to Bruce Springsteen's or David Bowie's model. Casual fans will buy hardly any of that stuff but serious fans will.

All of this has been repeated a million times.

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Reply #36 posted 11/16/20 7:26pm

databank

avatar

For 22 dollars a month, Bill Laswell has started a new subscription service on Bandcamp (https://billlaswell.bandcamp.com/). IIRC There were about 20 albums offered initially, some old releases and a few new shows. Ever since, I'm getting an email every 3 days on average saying there's a new show, album or song for me to download, which I find totally awesome and worth every penny.

It's all vault stuff and it's delivered with artwork, you can stream or download it so even if the service is terminated one day the albums will remain yours.

Laswell has a relatively niche audience and a very small team handling his affairs, yet he managed to pull that off, so there's no question the Estate could if they would, and Bandcamp offering a platform saves a lot of time and resources you'd have to put into handling a whole online store by yourself (though I suspect the Estate may feel an artist of P's magnitude cannot be "lowered" to using an existing platform and need to have his own online store, there's a matter of prestige involved in a "brand" such as Prince).

Anyway for now this doesn't seem to be the strategy and I do not expect it to happen anytime soon. Howe once said it was not unthinkable at some point to revive NPGMC in some way, and Sharon also expressed interest IIRC, and to be honest it's the only way to not sit on most of the huge amounts of recordings in the vault, so I'm sure they'll consider it at some point, but probably not before some years.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #37 posted 11/17/20 12:06am

BartVanHemelen

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fortuneandserendipity said:

Old Friends 4 Sale, a contractual obligation which he was against releasing, so I recall.

.

It must be amazing to live in a time where so much info is easily available, yet instead you make shit up.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #38 posted 11/17/20 12:13am

BartVanHemelen

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databank said:

Laswell has a relatively niche audience and a very small team handling his affairs, yet he managed to pull that off

.

Perhaps he took the time to maintain his vault?

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Also: completely different situation. Being that niche means you run less risk of someone bootlegging you. Do the same with Prince and chances are any new release if out there within hours. HD encodes of the recent SDEs were out there almost instantly, for instance.

.

Plus: about half of Prince's vault can be monetized with great results (as has been proven so far), but that might stop being true once they flood the market.

.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #39 posted 11/17/20 12:50am

udo

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BartVanHemelen said:

but that might stop being true once they flood the market.

.

Where approximately is the high water mark that is on the edge of flooding?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #40 posted 11/17/20 1:12am

databank

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Laswell has a relatively niche audience and a very small team handling his affairs, yet he managed to pull that off

.

Perhaps he took the time to maintain his vault?

.

.

He's already released so much music that I'm not sure how much studio material remains unreleased: I'm not completely sure but my impression is that, unlike Prince, Laswell tended to release as much of what he recorded as possible, which he probably could easily do since he was always releasing stuff under various monikers on a multitude of labels at the same time. But maybe I'm wrong: it'll be interesting to see how much surfaces on Bandcamp. So far it's been mostly live gigs, and hopefully he has a ton of those, the cool thing being that since his live shows were based around many very different projects with very different line-ups playing many different genres, it probably won't get boring anytime soon.

.

On a sidenote I'm kind of curious to see how long it'll take before the Bowie estate runs out of studio material (I believe there is very little in the vault) and before the live releases become redundant (they can release every show from every tour, but at some point, it'll be the same setlists over and over). I suspect that at the pace they're going, which is pretty hectic, they will run out of particularly interesting material in a decade or so.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #41 posted 11/17/20 7:28am

CAL3

fortuneandserendipity said:

P in his lifetime didn't care for the vault in respect of releasing new material. We got 2 albums from there before he died, Crystal Ball from '98 whose intention, you could argue, was to contradict the bootleggers and Old Friends 4 Sale, a contractual obligation which he was against releasing, so I recall.

We should be grateful for any new vault releases from here on in, because it will turn out to be a helluva lot more than would've got released, were he still here. Something to contemplate, if easily given to a pedantic response, myself included.


.
SMH...
.
Another “let’s all be glad Prince died prematurely because now we get to hear the vault content!” post...
.
No decency among some “fans”
I’ve been informed that my opinion is worth less than those expressed by others here.
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Reply #42 posted 11/17/20 2:30pm

BartVanHemelen

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databank said:

On a sidenote I'm kind of curious to see how long it'll take before the Bowie estate runs out of studio material (I believe there is very little in the vault)

.

Sure, but so what? They're curating, they don't need to earn money to pay for massive overhead, storage, etc. The P estate has a massive tax bill, and even if they wanted to fight it, they'd need to pay expensive lawyers etc. Bowie's doesn't have any of those issues, because Bowie got his business affairs in order decades ago, probably even before the heart attack he suffered in 2004.

.

Prince was a super-bad business man. He failed to monetize the contents of his vault, failed to use those contents to gain control of his back catalogue, and then didn't even bother to properly maintain his vault. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that at several times his entourage talked him out of destroying his most lascivious recordings. And that is just one aspect.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #43 posted 11/17/20 3:21pm

Milty2

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Perhaps he took the time to maintain his vault?

On a sidenote I'm kind of curious to see how long it'll take before the Bowie estate runs out of studio material (I believe there is very little in the vault) and before the live releases become redundant (they can release every show from every tour, but at some point, it'll be the same setlists over and over). I suspect that at the pace they're going, which is pretty hectic, they will run out of particularly interesting material in a decade or so.

I actually don't think there is a lot studio material leftover, if any. There are demos that Bowie had put to tape after Blackstar was completed and that Tony Visconti said he heard but, alas, they are only demos. Hence the No Plan EP that came out a year after he died. I really think that if we were to get any unheard finished studio material from the Bowie Estate, we would have heard it by now. Most likely they will be versions of already released songs or things like live radio studio or concert broadcasts.

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Reply #44 posted 11/17/20 4:46pm

MIRvmn

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OperatingThetan said:

An NPGMC-style subscriber service with both digital and premium physical options. It's the only viable way to release and profit from the majority of the vault material as hardcore fans are really the only market for most of the post-95 (or arguably earlier) archive.

Other than the hardcore, who else knows about or desires the 'Welcome 2 America' album? That album he didn't release in 2008? Alternate versions and configurations? Abandoned projects? Rehearsals? Some kind of reasonably affordable premium service will need to be designed to cater for this specialist market. If it is run and managed well and responsive to feedback, it could work.

I think a new npgmc is the next logical step when they're done with the super deluxe releases in a few years.
We are living in Orwell's 1984
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Reply #45 posted 11/17/20 5:12pm

databank

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Milty2 said:

databank said:

On a sidenote I'm kind of curious to see how long it'll take before the Bowie estate runs out of studio material (I believe there is very little in the vault) and before the live releases become redundant (they can release every show from every tour, but at some point, it'll be the same setlists over and over). I suspect that at the pace they're going, which is pretty hectic, they will run out of particularly interesting material in a decade or so.

I actually don't think there is a lot studio material leftover, if any. There are demos that Bowie had put to tape after Blackstar was completed and that Tony Visconti said he heard but, alas, they are only demos. Hence the No Plan EP that came out a year after he died. I really think that if we were to get any unheard finished studio material from the Bowie Estate, we would have heard it by now. Most likely they will be versions of already released songs or things like live radio studio or concert broadcasts.

Well they have released some: many demos from 1969 on the last boxset, the Let's Dance demo and a couple of Earthling outtakes last spring. There's also a bootleg of Outside outtakes so this at least does exist, and there must be one or 2 dozens of scattered outtakes, demos and alternate mixes, but probably not that much more, no.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #46 posted 11/17/20 11:24pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

CAL3 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

P in his lifetime didn't care for the vault in respect of releasing new material. We got 2 albums from there before he died, Crystal Ball from '98 whose intention, you could argue, was to contradict the bootleggers and Old Friends 4 Sale, a contractual obligation which he was against releasing, so I recall.

We should be grateful for any new vault releases from here on in, because it will turn out to be a helluva lot more than would've got released, were he still here. Something to contemplate, if easily given to a pedantic response, myself included.

. SMH... . Another “let’s all be glad Prince died prematurely because now we get to hear the vault content!” post... . No decency among some “fans”

Rubbish. That's not what I said. You need to improve your reading comprehension.

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Reply #47 posted 11/23/20 8:35am

Vannormal

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BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

On a sidenote I'm kind of curious to see how long it'll take before the Bowie estate runs out of studio material (I believe there is very little in the vault)

.

Sure, but so what? They're curating, they don't need to earn money to pay for massive overhead, storage, etc. The P estate has a massive tax bill, and even if they wanted to fight it, they'd need to pay expensive lawyers etc. Bowie's doesn't have any of those issues, because Bowie got his business affairs in order decades ago, probably even before the heart attack he suffered in 2004.

.

Prince was a super-bad business man. He failed to monetize the contents of his vault, failed to use those contents to gain control of his back catalogue, and then didn't even bother to properly maintain his vault. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that at several times his entourage talked him out of destroying his most lascivious recordings. And that is just one aspect.

-

Could not agree more.

My guess is Prince even had no clue what to do with all his material versus he couldn't care less too.

He was always out for the new, and thought he could float on his so called endless creativity.

But didn't he earn (just enough to pay the bills) with his tours and live performances ?

He did some secret fat payd one off gigs for multimillionaires here and there all over the world iicc, right ?

Maybe he thought he could float on his on going creativity, which is bizarre knowing that his sales went dowhill anyways.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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