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Reply #120 posted 11/13/20 7:11am

Vannormal

avatar

rednblue said:

Margot said:

Wonderful insights.

My impression of Bowie was a more detached, experimental performance artist. He never

touched me though I admired his work from a distance...similar to enjoying a piece of art, cerebral.

He was also able to walk away in his later years.

Prince was soulful, emotional and musical. He touched me much more deeply than Bowie.

He really was his music, composing and playing until his death. He had to do it.


For me, responses to Bowie and Prince are very similar to what you describe.

Like others, I'm enjoying the conversation and insightful observations.

-

Maybe it's my artschool background, cause for me it's different. smile

Prince's "soulful, emotional (and musical)" output, like you say, also does touch me very deeply.

But Bowie (amongst others like David Sylvian, Ryuichi Sakamoto, and classical Bach Brahms, etc) touches me even more - but different.

It has something to do with the way of interests, education, and personal feel of course.

-

My example.

Abstract art really can touch me very deep,

which is different with more digestible, easier and clearly understandable art.

As if listening to Beyoncé or Gaga (can I compare this? lol), I love it, don't get me wrong, but it sounds easy to me, and does not touch my heart that much.

And I like some good old pumping pop tunes too. wink

I try to avoid elitarism though, but my heart lies with the 'difficult', not the 'easy'.

-

To me Prince's music is the deepest, the meaningful soul, the outrageous funk, the blackness of it, the afro-american chilli-sauce that he conjures, is something I have the utmost love and respect for, and it is exactly that what attracks me so much in his captivating, and astoninishingly originality. Prince is my heavy secret, my guilty pleasure, and happiness.

But I can't put it up next to the other art I love.

Actually there's no need to comparre it/them. As simple as that. wink

-

Just like Prince, Bowie got drifted away from the scene for a while - going for mainstream and popular high end results, of wich he often spoke in later interviews as side steps, miss steps, etc.

He was capable of looking within, and weigh his creations and projects in quality from his lesser results.

I wish Prince had a longer life to live, to be able to do exactly the same.

And I believe he was right up to do that.

I did see this HBO documentary on Prince's last year of his life.

It answered a lot of questions for me.

He started to look back, out of fear (maybe). Having problems with his (unknown) addiction, feeling the end could be near, running out of creative ideas... (we'll never know exactly).

That biography he was about to write was something exactly at the right time. But his heart stopped before he knew it.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #121 posted 11/13/20 7:33am

Vannormal

avatar

rednblue said:

One of my references (connected to upthread comment re: Prince's earliest albums) was what I heard Prince say in an excerpt from the audiobook version of This Thing Called Life.

I know some think that it is wrong to listen to these recordings, but for those who are comfortable and have the audio version of Neal Karlen's book, I am referring to what Prince has to say about early albums in the excerpt that precedes Neal's reading of Chapter 9 ("High School"). Prince describes that prior to making his first records, he played "acoustic guitar constantly." He says that's what he thought of "when I would think of playing music."

Prince then says that he wrote "really long pieces of music. Like five verses. That was the shortest piece." People tried to talk him out of sticking so much to that. His first records didn't turn out to be quite like that. But before making those first records, he'd thought that's what he would do.


Also, in connection with the general conversation on this thread, the excerpt that precedes Chapter 8 ("Baller") may be of interest. Prince speaks briefly about what might motivate him to make some changes in what he's doing with his music/art.

As most know, these excerpts are Prince speaking in 1985.


https://www.audible.com/p...DF76AXK6ZA

[Edited 11/11/20 10:55am]

-

Just bought it.

About to start this weekend. wink

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #122 posted 11/13/20 9:13am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

"Prince is my heavy secret, my guilty pleasure, and happiness.

But I can't put it up next to the other art I love.

Actually there's no need to comparre it/them. As simple as that. "

So you enjoy prince but dont consider it art?
Possibly because it is too enjoyable?
Why is joy always placed so low in our idea of what constitutes art?

What's the name of the HBO film btw?
[Edited 11/13/20 9:15am]
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Reply #123 posted 11/13/20 7:07pm

Margot

Vannormal said:

rednblue said:


For me, responses to Bowie and Prince are very similar to what you describe.

Like others, I'm enjoying the conversation and insightful observations.

-

Maybe it's my artschool background, cause for me it's different. smile

Prince's "soulful, emotional (and musical)" output, like you say, also does touch me very deeply.

But Bowie (amongst others like David Sylvian, Ryuichi Sakamoto, and classical Bach Brahms, etc) touches me even more - but different.

It has something to do with the way of interests, education, and personal feel of course.

-

My example.

Abstract art really can touch me very deep,

which is different with more digestible, easier and clearly understandable art.

As if listening to Beyoncé or Gaga (can I compare this? lol), I love it, don't get me wrong, but it sounds easy to me, and does not touch my heart that much.

And I like some good old pumping pop tunes too. wink

I try to avoid elitarism though, but my heart lies with the 'difficult', not the 'easy'.

-

To me Prince's music is the deepest, the meaningful soul, the outrageous funk, the blackness of it, the afro-american chilli-sauce that he conjures, is something I have the utmost love and respect for, and it is exactly that what attracks me so much in his captivating, and astoninishingly originality. Prince is my heavy secret, my guilty pleasure, and happiness.

But I can't put it up next to the other art I love.

Actually there's no need to comparre it/them. As simple as that. wink

-

Just like Prince, Bowie got drifted away from the scene for a while - going for mainstream and popular high end results, of wich he often spoke in later interviews as side steps, miss steps, etc.

He was capable of looking within, and weigh his creations and projects in quality from his lesser results.

I wish Prince had a longer life to live, to be able to do exactly the same.

And I believe he was right up to do that.

I did see this HBO documentary on Prince's last year of his life.

It answered a lot of questions for me.

He started to look back, out of fear (maybe). Having problems with his (unknown) addiction, feeling the end could be near, running out of creative ideas... (we'll never know exactly).

That biography he was about to write was something exactly at the right time. But his heart stopped before he knew it.

-

  • Are you saying Prince's music does not compare to other art? Not certain I understood.
  • Re: his memoir, I just don't think he would have confided in us in a meaningful way.
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Reply #124 posted 11/13/20 8:27pm

rednblue

Margot said:

Vannormal said:

-

Maybe it's my artschool background, cause for me it's different. smile

Prince's "soulful, emotional (and musical)" output, like you say, also does touch me very deeply.

But Bowie (amongst others like David Sylvian, Ryuichi Sakamoto, and classical Bach Brahms, etc) touches me even more - but different.

It has something to do with the way of interests, education, and personal feel of course.

-

My example.

Abstract art really can touch me very deep,

which is different with more digestible, easier and clearly understandable art.

As if listening to Beyoncé or Gaga (can I compare this? lol), I love it, don't get me wrong, but it sounds easy to me, and does not touch my heart that much.

And I like some good old pumping pop tunes too. wink

I try to avoid elitarism though, but my heart lies with the 'difficult', not the 'easy'.

-

To me Prince's music is the deepest, the meaningful soul, the outrageous funk, the blackness of it, the afro-american chilli-sauce that he conjures, is something I have the utmost love and respect for, and it is exactly that what attracks me so much in his captivating, and astoninishingly originality. Prince is my heavy secret, my guilty pleasure, and happiness.

But I can't put it up next to the other art I love.

Actually there's no need to comparre it/them. As simple as that. wink

-

Just like Prince, Bowie got drifted away from the scene for a while - going for mainstream and popular high end results, of wich he often spoke in later interviews as side steps, miss steps, etc.

He was capable of looking within, and weigh his creations and projects in quality from his lesser results.

I wish Prince had a longer life to live, to be able to do exactly the same.

And I believe he was right up to do that.

I did see this HBO documentary on Prince's last year of his life.

It answered a lot of questions for me.

He started to look back, out of fear (maybe). Having problems with his (unknown) addiction, feeling the end could be near, running out of creative ideas... (we'll never know exactly).

That biography he was about to write was something exactly at the right time. But his heart stopped before he knew it.

-

  • Are you saying Prince's music does not compare to other art? Not certain I understood.
  • Re: his memoir, I just don't think he would have confided in us in a meaningful way.


Wonder if writing a memoir can be a good, helpful experience for some...even people who don't intend to, or don't end up, doing much confiding.

I wonder if he would have ended with a draft vault, with writing/journaling (like making music) being meaningful...whether it was part of the pages eventually shared with the public, or not.

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Reply #125 posted 11/13/20 8:29pm

rednblue

Vannormal said:

rednblue said:

One of my references (connected to upthread comment re: Prince's earliest albums) was what I heard Prince say in an excerpt from the audiobook version of This Thing Called Life.

I know some think that it is wrong to listen to these recordings, but for those who are comfortable and have the audio version of Neal Karlen's book, I am referring to what Prince has to say about early albums in the excerpt that precedes Neal's reading of Chapter 9 ("High School"). Prince describes that prior to making his first records, he played "acoustic guitar constantly." He says that's what he thought of "when I would think of playing music."

Prince then says that he wrote "really long pieces of music. Like five verses. That was the shortest piece." People tried to talk him out of sticking so much to that. His first records didn't turn out to be quite like that. But before making those first records, he'd thought that's what he would do.


Also, in connection with the general conversation on this thread, the excerpt that precedes Chapter 8 ("Baller") may be of interest. Prince speaks briefly about what might motivate him to make some changes in what he's doing with his music/art.

As most know, these excerpts are Prince speaking in 1985.


https://www.audible.com/p...DF76AXK6ZA

[Edited 11/11/20 10:55am]

-

Just bought it.

About to start this weekend. wink

-


Happy reading...or listening. : ) Will be interested to hear what you think, if you're up for sharing. Did you choose print or audiobook?

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Reply #126 posted 11/16/20 1:47am

Vannormal

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

"Prince is my heavy secret, my guilty pleasure, and happiness. But I can't put it up next to the other art I love. Actually there's no need to comparre it/them. As simple as that. " So you enjoy prince but dont consider it art? Possibly because it is too enjoyable? Why is joy always placed so low in our idea of what constitutes art? What's the name of the HBO film btw? [Edited 11/13/20 9:15am]

-

No no. That's what not what I said.

I said : "the other art"

-

HBO documentary :

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Prince+HBO+documentary&docid=607993410459010386&mid=3928A8E2A09F2B80586A3928A8E2A09F2B80586A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #127 posted 11/16/20 1:49am

Vannormal

avatar

Margot said:

Vannormal said:

  • Are you saying Prince's music does not compare to other art? Not certain I understood.
  • Re: his memoir, I just don't think he would have confided in us in a meaningful way.

-

True.

smile

But I believe in hope, and i'm a positive person...

maybe that's what in the way of my purple realness. lol

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #128 posted 11/16/20 9:05am

SPYZFAN1

Alan Leeds said (in a recent podcast interview) that not only were P's hips shot, but the rest of his joints were bad too. He had pain in his fingers, hands and legs. His balance and coordination was off and couldn't grab or grip like he used to. He said that bothered P because he wasn't sure if he was going to be able to play the guitar or piano proficiently (or at all) down the road. I can't even begin to think or imagine what kind of pain he was in.

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Reply #129 posted 11/16/20 9:08am

SPYZFAN1

..oh yes, these are things that Alan HEARD about P from associates close to him. Not direct quotes from Alan himself.

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Reply #130 posted 11/17/20 7:59pm

Margot

SPYZFAN1 said:

Alan Leeds said (in a recent podcast interview) that not only were P's hips shot, but the rest of his joints were bad too. He had pain in his fingers, hands and legs. His balance and coordination was off and couldn't grab or grip like he used to. He said that bothered P because he wasn't sure if he was going to be able to play the guitar or piano proficiently (or at all) down the road. I can't even begin to think or imagine what kind of pain he was in.

I don't remember Alan saying all of that.

Prince had pain in his hands after piano shows because he banged hard on the keys.

I don't recall A saying P couldn't grab or grip. I remember him saying his finger coordination may have been in question and would have affected his playing.

Prince's hips were not shot. He had surgery on one of them in 2010. If his hips were shot, he would have been limping or favoring or using a walker/cane in the video the day before his death. The video is online 4/20/16. He was walking fast.

He was ill though.

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Reply #131 posted 11/17/20 8:01pm

Margot

Vannormal said:

Margot said:

  • Are you saying Prince's music does not compare to other art? Not certain I understood.
  • Re: his memoir, I just don't think he would have confided in us in a meaningful way.

-

True.

smile

But I believe in hope, and i'm a positive person...

maybe that's what in the way of my purple realness. lol

-

I used to hope he would pull back the veil a bit but have been disappointed too much and have

become less hopeful.

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Reply #132 posted 11/18/20 12:08am

MoodyBlumes

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Derek880 said:

Later on, in my opinion, he DEFINITELY wrote better songs. The Emancipation album is full of great songs, and though some "fans" take issue with it, The Rainbow Children is an amazing piece of original work. Art Official Age was overlooked, but was loaded with good R&B work. Off the top of my head, I can name at least 10 songs in the 2000 era that were better than When Doves Cry. To be honest, (and this may offend some)...without the Purple Rain movie or the videos, the Purple Rain album would not have received anywhere near the media recognition. I could see some of his later work being responsible for him being a mega-star and blowing him up, but not Purple Rain. Funk and R&B was always a part of his life. I don't think it had anything to do with commercialization. The 80s was his commercialization/crossover period. Once he broke that barrier, he didn't really need to maintain The Revolution. Near the end, he surrounded himself with people that looked like him and that he could connect to on a more cultural level. I think he did that because he needed that. What's lost in so much of the hoopla of fans trying to re-create his life is that Prince was always a Black man. No matter who was in his band. Creating The Revolution was him simply playing the game with the hand that he was given. When he no longer had to play the game, he was free to develop what he wanted as his vision changed.

true, purple rain was just corny crossover pop BS (which he started with little red corvette). if im honest, the real compromises prince made werent in the 90s, they were in the 80s. the only pure and true records prince made were the first two albums. from 1980 to 1986, he was obv just doing anything to get the white dollar. he started to get back in touch with the real prince sound inside him after that period, but it was really in 1991 that he got there, when he reconnected with old friends and musicians, and got a black band at last. same with hendrix. his music was just compromised and stymied until he got rid of the experience and got the band of gypsies. really though, prince never liked rock music, he just got into it and learnt it as he knew its what white people would want to hear. D&P is actually the *real* prince, he just couldnt go there until 91. prince just made people think that he was into rock music, but really he just wanted to play rnb and funk only, but the white masses forced his hand. first it was the mainstream white audience he was trying to appeal to, then the hipster white crowds with ATWIAD and parade. all corny, cravenly commercial crossover records. only reason people dont see it this way is cos the industry and journalists have made it seem like rock/pop prince is better than R&B/funk prince.


[Edited 11/9/20 12:15pm]

Miles Davis' son Erin on Prince and PR: https://www.youtube.com/w...yFVdBTmqAc

.

Since when is running a business (making money) 'white'? Prince liked all kinds of music, 'For You' kicks off with A capella and culminates with the rocker 'I'm Yours'. Bambi rocks my socks off... Prince didn't have a babysitter, and played any music he pleased.

[Edited 11/18/20 1:08am]

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