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Reply #120 posted 11/05/20 4:35am

LoveGalore

Vannormal said:



thebanishedone said:




OldFriends4Sale said:



MUSICIAN (1997)


APRIL 1997 * MUSICIAN


The Sound of Emancipation
I remember when Miles Davis came to my house. As he was passing by my piano, he stopped and put his hands down on the keys and played these eight chords, one after the other. It was so beautiful; he sounded like Bill Evans or Lisa [Coleman], who also had this way of playing chords that were so perfect. I was wondering whether he was playing games with me, because he wasn't supposed to be a keyboard player. And when he was finished, I couldn't decide whether it was him or an angel putting his hands on the keys.



For me, excellence comes from the fact that God loves me. But what is excellence? You've heard about these people who will bomb a building and kill all these people in God's name. You could say that they did an excellent job at what they were trying to do, right? Now, when I look at my band, Dyson is a different kind of guitar player than Mike. She looks cool, she has that kind of punk attitude. But that's her; that's not Mike. Lisa was never an explosive keyboard player, but she was a master of color in her harmonies; I could sing off of what she had with straight soul.



I agree about everything, Lisa is amazing,always was. Whole The Revolution was amazing and


Wendy was the weakest link


but still she was a good musician and a good influence and inspiration on Prince.


she just was not a gifted soloist


and she never become one, so yes all the rhythm work she did was ok.


but as soon as she needed to solo,she was lost.



-


I'm giving up on you, you know. wink


Do you play the guitar yourself ?


I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.


Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.


Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.


Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.


Peace though. smile


-



He's actually a very talented guitarist.

He also happens to be correct, imo. Wendy is one of the very few guitarists in Prince's history of employees where I can't think of a single great solo on record or live. Did she ever solo on record? Not in Prince's band. Interesting really considering every other guitarist in his bands except Kat Dyson had solos either on a record or throughout a tour.

Miko and Dez got tons of solo action. Levi did too. Donna did too.
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Reply #121 posted 11/05/20 4:38am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Maybe shes not meant to be a soloist
Shes a writer first, not a soloist
Maybe she has a certain sound, a tone that means being Hendrix on guitar doesnt matter
[Edited 11/5/20 4:39am]
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Reply #122 posted 11/05/20 5:14am

LoveGalore

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Maybe shes not meant to be a soloist
Shes a writer first, not a soloist
Maybe she has a certain sound, a tone that means being Hendrix on guitar doesnt matter
[Edited 11/5/20 4:39am]


Ok. Any written pieces of her guitar work that stands out?
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Reply #123 posted 11/05/20 5:28am

thebanishedone

avatar

Vannormal said:

thebanishedone said:

I agree about everything, Lisa is amazing,always was. Whole The Revolution was amazing and

Wendy was the weakest link

but still she was a good musician and a good influence and inspiration on Prince.

she just was not a gifted soloist

and she never become one, so yes all the rhythm work she did was ok.

but as soon as she needed to solo,she was lost.

-

I'm giving up on you, you know. wink

Do you play the guitar yourself ?

I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.

Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.

Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.

Peace though. smile

-

i play guitar for the bigger part odf my life and i know what i'm talking about.in fact i uploaded a video of me playing Black Magic Woman with a latin band if you want 2 c it . here is the download link :

https://easyupload.io/aznnlx

in this video you can see how i play.i suck on guitar compared to every guitar player who played with Prince but for Wendy im a master on guitar smile

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Reply #124 posted 11/05/20 5:32am

thebanishedone

avatar

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:
Maybe shes not meant to be a soloist Shes a writer first, not a soloist Maybe she has a certain sound, a tone that means being Hendrix on guitar doesnt matter [Edited 11/5/20 4:39am]
Ok. Any written pieces of her guitar work that stands out?

Only on the song Waterfalls from her solo career

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Reply #125 posted 11/05/20 5:40am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

My point is I think shes a perfectly good guitarist
But maybe the point of her playing is not to win battle of the bands but just use it to write cool ot interesting things
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Reply #126 posted 11/05/20 5:43am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

So back to the main post, does anyone wonder if maybe prince disbanded the band just cos after purple rain, and two later albums, he was like, I'm not advancing with this band, weren't going to go multi platinum like before, might as well discard them now. Like they were a reminder almost of a peak he wasnt going to reach again. Also other stuff to do with control, wanting to feel independent again,his need to start over etc, but I wonder of the revolution were always linked to a relatively quick rise and sharper fall than expected (he had artistic goals amd knew they were important but I wonder if he still was angry he wasnt selling bigger numbers)
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Reply #127 posted 11/05/20 5:47am

thebanishedone

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

My point is I think shes a perfectly good guitarist But maybe the point of her playing is not to win battle of the bands but just use it to write cool ot interesting things

She is good at rhythm and she is a good musician,very good on bass guitar,

but she was not a gifted soloist and that is my pointpeople try to give her

credits where it was not deserved.

But also back to the topic. Yes it was good for Prince to change bands,but it's not true that The Revolution couldn't follow.but maybe he wanted some1 to lead him in new directions,not to follow.

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Reply #128 posted 11/05/20 5:51am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Hes just not soneone who thinks anything can come from growing with people
He thought everything good could only come early on
After that, there was no new ground to cover
Or at least nothing as exciting
Maybe that's the right attitude for an artist or maybe he just lacked the ability to build relationships to develop in that way
Idk
But hes def never been a group or team player
He wants to be the leader at all times
[Edited 11/5/20 5:52am]
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Reply #129 posted 11/05/20 5:53am

RJOrion

thebanishedone said:

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: Ok. Any written pieces of her guitar work that stands out?

Only on the song Waterfalls from her solo career

the guitar work on "Waterfall" is super basic...nothing even remotely special... a novice/intermediate can play that

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Reply #130 posted 11/05/20 5:57am

thebanishedone

avatar

RJOrion said:

thebanishedone said:

Only on the song Waterfalls from her solo career

the guitar work on "Waterfall" is super basic...nothing even remotely special... a novice/intermediate can play that

yeah but at least it's not sloppy,full of off key bends like she usually plays smile

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Reply #131 posted 11/05/20 5:58am

OldFriends4Sal
e

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

So back to the main post, does anyone wonder if maybe prince disbanded the band just cos after purple rain, and two later albums, he was like, I'm not advancing with this band, weren't going to go multi platinum like before, might as well discard them now. Like they were a reminder almost of a peak he wasnt going to reach again. Also other stuff to do with control, wanting to feel independent again,his need to start over etc, but I wonder of the revolution were always linked to a relatively quick rise and sharper fall than expected (he had artistic goals amd knew they were important but I wonder if he still was angry he wasnt selling bigger numbers)

I think songs like Wally which is not about Wally but Susannah and his ending with the Revolution(which also represented a longer era than 83-86) tell more about intimate connections. Old Friends 4 Sale is another song that deals with the ending of an era. There is one more song I'm missing.
.
After this period even in 1987 after the cancellation of the Black Album and the conflicted imagery of the Lovesexy period I knew, he was ending relationship tied to him. And Dr Fink, Miko, Sheila E, Eric etc would be gone soon. By 1991 (outside of Levi) everyone was basically gone, whether in camp or band.

.

But these are people he also continued relationships/friendships with throught his life overall. Yes with Vanity 6 the Time 'Revolution' members 1978-1986 non band musicicians
Not Miko or Levi it seems. And not Jill Jones, until the year Denise Matthews died.
He reconnected with Cat it seems in the 2000s

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Reply #132 posted 11/05/20 6:35am

jaawwnn

thebanishedone said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

My point is I think shes a perfectly good guitarist But maybe the point of her playing is not to win battle of the bands but just use it to write cool ot interesting things

She is good at rhythm and she is a good musician,very good on bass guitar,

but she was not a gifted soloist and that is my pointpeople try to give her

credits where it was not deserved.

But also back to the topic. Yes it was good for Prince to change bands,but it's not true that The Revolution couldn't follow.but maybe he wanted some1 to lead him in new directions,not to follow.

So you've moved on from your "incompetent musician" and" lousy guitar player" position that started this whole shitshow of a thread?

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Reply #133 posted 11/05/20 6:56am

thebanishedone

avatar

jaawwnn said:

thebanishedone said:

She is good at rhythm and she is a good musician,very good on bass guitar,

but she was not a gifted soloist and that is my pointpeople try to give her

credits where it was not deserved.

But also back to the topic. Yes it was good for Prince to change bands,but it's not true that The Revolution couldn't follow.but maybe he wanted some1 to lead him in new directions,not to follow.

So you've moved on from your "incompetent musician" and" lousy guitar player" position that started this whole shitshow of a thread?

incompetent and lousy when it comes to lead guitar yes.but she is ok at rhythm.

And the reason i started it because its always The Revolution could not pull it off,and people give Bobby as an example of being the weakest link.thats why i said what i think and that is Bobby worked hard for his money. Wendy not so much ,if we look at their performing skills.

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Reply #134 posted 11/05/20 7:04am

OldFriends4Sal
e

thebanishedone said:

jaawwnn said:

So you've moved on from your "incompetent musician" and" lousy guitar player" position that started this whole shitshow of a thread?

incompetent and lousy when it comes to lead guitar yes.but she is ok at rhythm.

And the reason i started it because its always The Revolution could not pull it off,and people give Bobby as an example of being the weakest link.thats why i said what i think and that is Bobby worked hard for his money. Wendy not so much ,if we look at their performing skills.

dude

.

whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution

He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period

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Reply #135 posted 11/05/20 7:12am

thebanishedone

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

thebanishedone said:

incompetent and lousy when it comes to lead guitar yes.but she is ok at rhythm.

And the reason i started it because its always The Revolution could not pull it off,and people give Bobby as an example of being the weakest link.thats why i said what i think and that is Bobby worked hard for his money. Wendy not so much ,if we look at their performing skills.

dude

.

whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution

He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period

tumblr_lwagddZgNF1qaxurwo1_250.gif

I didn't say he disbanded the Revolution because of Wendys skills ,its obvious why he did it.Prince disbanded The Revolution only because Wendy And Lisa quit and he had to send his entourage to beg them to stay.so Prince already had revenge in his mind.He will fire them after the tour. If the girls didn't get their heads up their hills The Revolution would continue for a longer period.

[Edited 11/5/20 7:13am]

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Reply #136 posted 11/05/20 7:17am

jaawwnn

Lets just make this clear so we can stop going around in circles

thebanishedone's argument is:

A) Wendy sucked at lead guitar in 1983-1986 and he never saw any evidence that she got better
B) Wendy was a competent but not especially amazing rhythm guitarist in 1983-1986 and he has never seen any evidence that she got better
C) She may be a good musician and artist outside of lead guitar playing but he is not interested in that.

His original statement that she is an "incompetent musician" was not what he actually meant, he was specifically talking about her guitar playing skills.

Guitar playing skills = guitar solos and funky rhythm guitar playing exclusively. Using interesting or innovative chords is not applicable as that is more of a songwriting skill.


[Edited 11/5/20 7:18am]

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Reply #137 posted 11/05/20 7:26am

thebanishedone

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Lets just make this clear so we can stop going around in circles

thebanishedone's argument is:

A) Wendy sucked at lead guitar in 1983-1986 and he never saw any evidence that she got better
B) Wendy was a competent but not especially amazing rhythm guitarist in 1983-1986 and he has never seen any evidence that she got better
C) She may be a good musician and artist outside of lead guitar playing but he is not interested in that.

His original statement that she is an "incompetent musician" was not what he actually meant, he was specifically talking about her guitar playing skills.

Guitar playing skills = guitar solos and funky rhythm guitar playing exclusively. Using interesting or innovative chords is not applicable as that is more of a songwriting skill.


[Edited 11/5/20 7:18am]

A and b is correct.c is incorrect.

I actually did listened to all the stuff she did with Lisa,stuff she did with Seal,unreleased sessions with George Michael.i like what she

addded on Madonna's She's Not Me.

Good guitar skills = being good at everything guitar related.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the chords she used 9th and suspended chords was nothing innovative.Prince was using those chords from day 1 and much more (I Feel 4 U )

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Reply #138 posted 11/05/20 7:36am

Vannormal

thebanishedone said:

Vannormal said:

-

I'm giving up on you, you know. wink

Do you play the guitar yourself ?

I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.

Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.

Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.

Peace though. smile

-

i play guitar for the bigger part odf my life and i know what i'm talking about.in fact i uploaded a video of me playing Black Magic Woman with a latin band if you want 2 c it . here is the download link :

https://easyupload.io/aznnlx

in this video you can see how i play.i suck on guitar compared to every guitar player who played with Prince but for Wendy im a master on guitar smile

-

Good !

But I'll be the judge of that. lol

Let's see.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #139 posted 11/05/20 7:37am

jaawwnn

thebanishedone said:

A and b is correct.c is incorrect.

I actually did listened to all the stuff she did with Lisa,stuff she did with Seal,unreleased sessions with George Michael.i like what she

addded on Madonna's She's Not Me.

Good guitar skills = being good at everything guitar related.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the chords she used 9th and suspended chords was nothing innovative.Prince was using those chords from day 1 and much more (I Feel 4 U )



You're not bursting my bubble, I like the big, interesting chords she uses across the W&L stuff. You may counter that actually, they are not interesting, and this or that person writes better chords. That's fine, I don't mind, they're interesting to me.

I like some bands who are incompetent musicians and I can listen to them play for hours and hours and hours before i'll listen to some juilliard trained sessions musos do "good" playing. Generally speaking, I dislike good playing; musicians need to be put in their place when they are playing on a pop song. The Funk Brothers may be some of the best musicians that ever played on pop records but without those pop records they're just more jazz players noodling away to themselves as far as i'm concerned.

Case in point: Wendy's playing on that Madonna song means nothing to me because I think that song suuuuuuucks

[Edited 11/5/20 7:50am]

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Reply #140 posted 11/05/20 7:42am

Vannormal

-

Another thing,

it is not a competition to be better or best. Music is not sports !

Maybe in the Us of divided A, but not in my world. wink

And I will never give in on he or she is worse or better.

That's what makes the world so sick and divided, and for what reason? I am right and you are wrong ?

Hendrix, Prince, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Eddie Van Halen, Slash...

and thousands of others great players, were all a million years of difference in comparison.

Skills are not what counts tbh.

I know hundreds of bedroom guitarists that are even better skilled than any of the greats out there.

It's not that what counts.

But if you don't get this, you're just up for plain competition through skills.

Again, peace though. wink

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #141 posted 11/05/20 7:56am

RJOrion

damn... that black-white-red telecaster is beautiful

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Reply #142 posted 11/05/20 7:56am

Vannormal

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Maybe shes not meant to be a soloist Shes a writer first, not a soloist Maybe she has a certain sound, a tone that means being Hendrix on guitar doesnt matter [Edited 11/5/20 4:39am]

-

exactly

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972)
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Reply #143 posted 11/05/20 8:14am

thebanishedone

avatar

Vannormal said:

-

Another thing,

it is not a competition to be better or best. Music is not sports !

Maybe in the Us of divided A, but not in my world. wink

And I will never give in on he or she is worse or better.

That's what makes the world so sick and divided, and for what reason? I am right and you are wrong ?

Hendrix, Prince, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Eddie Van Halen, Slash...

and thousands of others great players, were all a million years of difference in comparison.

Skills are not what counts tbh.

I know hundreds of bedroom guitarists that are even better skilled than any of the greats out there.

It's not that what counts.

But if you don't get this, you're just up for plain competition through skills.

Again, peace though. wink

-

i agree with you.its less about skill and more about conviction .Its more important to believe in what you play than what you are actually playing,and you are right music is not sport.i didn't mean to drag Wendy in a negative content ,it's just im tired of seeing people saying the same old here on org.

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Reply #144 posted 11/05/20 8:31am

thebanishedone

avatar

jaawwnn said:

thebanishedone said:

A and b is correct.c is incorrect.

I actually did listened to all the stuff she did with Lisa,stuff she did with Seal,unreleased sessions with George Michael.i like what she

addded on Madonna's She's Not Me.

Good guitar skills = being good at everything guitar related.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the chords she used 9th and suspended chords was nothing innovative.Prince was using those chords from day 1 and much more (I Feel 4 U )



You're not bursting my bubble, I like the big, interesting chords she uses across the W&L stuff. You may counter that actually, they are not interesting, and this or that person writes better chords. That's fine, I don't mind, they're interesting to me.

I like some bands who are incompetent musicians and I can listen to them play for hours and hours and hours before i'll listen to some juilliard trained sessions musos do "good" playing. Generally speaking, I dislike good playing; musicians need to be put in their place when they are playing on a pop song. The Funk Brothers may be some of the best musicians that ever played on pop records but without those pop records they're just more jazz players noodling away to themselves as far as i'm concerned.

Case in point: Wendy's playing on that Madonna song means nothing to me because I think that song suuuuuuucks

[Edited 11/5/20 7:50am]

I did say those chords are not innovative,i never said those 9th and sus chords are not interesting.of course they are .all chord inversions are more interesting that just standard chords.I also like bands who are nothing special on their instrument but they are tight units.Lots of early 80s new wave bands fit the bill.I would rather watch Duran Duran live than Yngwie Malmstein for example.Solos are just a part of an arangement and what matters the most is a good song.But i do think that Wendy should have practice the lead parts Prince gave her.And i think she didn't practice enough.Bobby Rivkin on the other hand was always on top of the game.He couldn't take Prince to fusion latin jazz like Sheila ,but he could change his drumming to fit anything Prince played from straight forward rock new wave to soul,funk,even jazz.If you listen to Bobbys drum rolls you can see that Gene Krupa was one of Bobbys jazz influences. So my final statement is :yes it was good for Prince to switch musicians but i still think The Revolution could do 1987/1988 style of shows cause they were already doing it in 1986 .All the horn arrangements were already done in 1986 along with turnarounds and i didn't see The Revolution missing a bit. The only problem with switching the band members was that while new band members were strong on their instruments ,at the same time they were lacking the individuality of The Revolution.I will tell you where i miss Wendy the most after she left.It was in the vocal harmonies department.Wendy and Lisa did simple but nice an effective vocal harmonies behind Prince's lead vocal.

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Reply #145 posted 11/05/20 11:24am

SoulAlive

thebanishedone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

dude

.

whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution

He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period

tumblr_lwagddZgNF1qaxurwo1_250.gif

I didn't say he disbanded the Revolution because of Wendys skills ,its obvious why he did it.Prince disbanded The Revolution only because Wendy And Lisa quit and he had to send his entourage to beg them to stay.so Prince already had revenge in his mind.He will fire them after the tour. If the girls didn't get their heads up their hills The Revolution would continue for a longer period.

In one of the SOTT podcasts,Wendy says that they "weren't making much money" and asked for a raise.Prince was pissed,so that could also be one of the reasons why he let them go hmmm

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Reply #146 posted 11/05/20 3:23pm

LoveGalore

SoulAlive said:



thebanishedone said:




OldFriends4Sale said:





dude



.


whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution



He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period



tumblr_lwagddZgNF1qaxurwo1_250.gif



I didn't say he disbanded the Revolution because of Wendys skills ,its obvious why he did it.Prince disbanded The Revolution only because Wendy And Lisa quit and he had to send his entourage to beg them to stay.so Prince already had revenge in his mind.He will fire them after the tour. If the girls didn't get their heads up their hills The Revolution would continue for a longer period.





In one of the SOTT podcasts,Wendy says that they "weren't making much money" and asked for a raise.Prince was pissed,so that could also be one of the reasons why he let them go hmmm



Don't ask me for the figure off hand but Mark did spill how much he was paid and they were doing pretty good.

No, they weren't millionaires like Prince. sad
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Reply #147 posted 11/05/20 3:34pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

I'm sure I read they made a couple grand a week touring

Musicians always want more lol
[Edited 11/5/20 15:35pm]
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Reply #148 posted 11/05/20 4:15pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

LoveGalore said:

Vannormal said:

-

I'm giving up on you, you know. wink

Do you play the guitar yourself ?

I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.

Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.

Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.

Peace though. smile

-

He's actually a very talented guitarist. He also happens to be correct, imo. Wendy is one of the very few guitarists in Prince's history of employees where I can't think of a single great solo on record or live. Did she ever solo on record? Not in Prince's band. Interesting really considering every other guitarist in his bands except Kat Dyson had solos either on a record or throughout a tour. Miko and Dez got tons of solo action. Levi did too. Donna did too.

that 97% of the Time (a baddassed group) never recorded on the 3/4 Time albums sorta messes up your arguement here. I guess that is Jesse on Jungle Love.

.

That Sheila E's band never recorded on any songs except for 2 Sexy (Steph B is a monster ax man) and Merci4theSpeedofaMadclownInSummer

.

On songs like America I don't know who is taking guitar solo pieces

.

Dez only got the Little Red Corvette guitar solo 1979-1982 and his is an ax man

.

Did Miko or Levi get album guitar solos?

.

She had the rockabilly guitar solo on Let's Pretend We're Married live, I think her When Doves Cry solo on the Parade tour was sharp. I think that version is my favorite too. Alexis De Paris-First Avenue Open rehearsal, Darling Nikki as Prince is humping etc idk

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Reply #149 posted 11/05/20 4:35pm

SoulAlive

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I'm sure I read they made a couple grand a week touring

Musicians always want more lol


but what about when they were not touring? Were they still getting their weekly pay? Did Prince keep them on retainer? Trying to understand how this works
smile
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince made the right decision in disbanding the Revolution