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Reply #90 posted 10/06/20 6:35am

JorisE73

I'm a white straight guy and I grew up and was big into Hip-Hop in the 80's until halfway through the 90's and most black and other not white people I knew back in then from the Hip-Hop scene thought he was a "Fag" and made fun of people that listened to him or liked him until about 1998 then they started to listen and warm up to him. Before that most non-white people i know just taught it made you gay to listen to him or something (and I encoutered this dumb idea in the US to.)

I don;t know. Prince was Black (but wanted to present himself as bi-racial for some reason early in his carreer; see Purple Rain and early interviews) and made awesome, all inclusive music (until he became a bigot in the 90's by way of a hate spreading, anti gay religion)
As a white guy I can relate to most of the things he sang about and understand his lyrics about Love, Loss, Heartache, Hate, Anger, Sex and whatever and that's enough for me. If there's a secret message in hs music that only people with a darker skin tone can hear and understand and i for some reason maybe can not then that's cool to, Prince made music for everyone.

[Edited 10/6/20 6:38am]

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Reply #91 posted 10/06/20 6:44am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

JB: I Don't Want Nobody To Give Me Nothing (Open Up The Door, I'll Get It Myself).

ive a feeling prince in the 80s would prob have been behind this^^^

doesnt mean he would have looked down on others who didnt, necessarily.

but doesnt mean he was the leftist radical some people would like him to have been either.

though id love to hear others perspectives.

[Edited 10/6/20 5:43am]

[Edited 10/6/20 5:44am]

Prince had a lot of conservative, hard working( a lot of people from earlier times did thought), education, proper English, moral standards, but Prince did express very hard lined beliefs in the last 15yrs

post #2 is why I think we had such great musical talent coming out of the 60s 70s 80s

Yes we had a talent show or two back then, but people generally didn't record contracts like today's 'American Idols' '... Got Talent' etc

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Reply #92 posted 10/06/20 6:55am

OldFriends4Sal
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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

That statement that hip hoppers were into p at this time seems a bit contrived. Almost like she csnt admit that p might not have been wholly embraced. Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb. [Edited 9/26/20 10:43am]

Since his passing, I've been taking a lot of these interviews with a grain of salt. Not to hard to realized many of them are not hardcore fans.

It was never an easy thing for me to conclude Prince into any genre of music. And not even originally being a hardcore 1990s Prince fan, having studied 1990s Prince later, Prince was doing the same thing 1980s Prince was doing, just with a more trend following bent. Prince still had his ballads and 'folk' pieces, he sorta substituted his Let's Work new wave funk for a New jack style, a little gansta rap vibe, and still a lot of rock. He was always an ax man. As he said when addressing people comparing him to Michael Jackson. He said compare him to other Ax men.

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Reply #93 posted 10/06/20 7:26am

udo

avatar

PurpleSullivan said:

gross

.

What is gross about my perspective?

You provide very little indication not any argumentation.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #94 posted 10/06/20 12:04pm

Vannormal

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

this thread got weird.

'prince could be an asshole because he had it hard growing up but if you call him an asshole then youre an asshole, asshole, because if you had it tough growing up, it means everything you do later is excusable'

'if prince mistreated women in his life, thats their fault for falling for his bullshit!'

'if prince was so black, why did he play to white audiences?'

'europe has no racism'

'white people cant clap on time'

'white people cant dance'

well done everyone!

-

Exactly !

-
These are some of the reasons why I would rather not get involved with those who think it is necessary to inform or even convince us of (their personal) perceptions such as:

- unfounded info

- general negative comments

- mysogenic statements

- racism from all sides

- generalizations

- lies and exaggerations

In fact, I personally think these (very negative) 'issues' are not even worthy of any democratic debate here on Prince.org.
It always rises to a useless and derailing climax, where opinions and statements arise that lead nowhere.

This kind of negativity is everything Prince did NOT stand for.

NOT AT ALL.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #95 posted 10/06/20 12:14pm

Vannormal

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JorisE73 said:

I don;t know. Prince was Black (but wanted to present himself as bi-racial for some reason early in his carreer; see Purple Rain and early interviews) and made awesome, all inclusive music (until he became a bigot in the 90's by way of a hate spreading, anti gay religion)
As a white guy I can relate to most of the things he sang about, and I understand his lyrics about Love, Loss, Heartache, Hate, Anger, Sex and whatever, and that's enough for me.

If there's a secret message in his music that only people with a darker skin tone can hear and understand and i for some reason maybe can't then that's cool too.

Prince made music for everyone.

-

Love that 100%.

And he indeed made music for EVRYONE.

That was very important to him.

The proof lies in the unmistakable mix of music styles he hit and conjured up.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #96 posted 10/06/20 12:39pm

Margot

Hey guys, I was the one who said white folks can't clap on time and do not dance that well.

There were many times Prince corrected audiences in Europe to please clap on 2&4, not the 1&3.

He said that some dance well...I exaggerated to make a point about Prince liking white audiences in spite of their 'shortcomings' It was said somewhat tongue-in-cheek

Not dancing too well and hand-clapping off-time are trivial.

Otherwise, I think the conversation should go on. It can get rough, but this is how we find

out what people really think.

[Edited 10/6/20 12:56pm]

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Reply #97 posted 10/06/20 3:03pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

JorisE73 said:

I'm a white straight guy and I grew up and was big into Hip-Hop in the 80's until halfway through the 90's and most black and other not white people I knew back in then from the Hip-Hop scene thought he was a "Fag" and made fun of people that listened to him or liked him until about 1998 then they started to listen and warm up to him. Before that most non-white people i know just taught it made you gay to listen to him or something (and I encoutered this dumb idea in the US to.)

I don;t know. Prince was Black (but wanted to present himself as bi-racial for some reason early in his carreer; see Purple Rain and early interviews) and made awesome, all inclusive music (until he became a bigot in the 90's by way of a hate spreading, anti gay religion)
As a white guy I can relate to most of the things he sang about and understand his lyrics about Love, Loss, Heartache, Hate, Anger, Sex and whatever and that's enough for me. If there's a secret message in hs music that only people with a darker skin tone can hear and understand and i for some reason maybe can not then that's cool to, Prince made music for everyone.

[Edited 10/6/20 6:38am]



I can relate to this.
If you think about who in rap was either mocked or just ignored , it would be the artists like PM dawn, justin warfield, or those seen as soft.
I just dont imagine prince coming off favourably in that kind of arena.
Even in rnb of the time, you have Bobby brown, keith sweat or guy, or levert. Def more room for softer sounds and lyrics, but princes late 80s stuff wasnt as funky or as tough as a lot of that even, rhythmically, except a few songs.
Nothing wrong with that ofc, prince was always to the left of straight rnb/funk, even though he was also pop, but that idea that rap fans all loved prince during this period doesn't quite work for me (as said on the original piece this thread is about).
[Edited 10/6/20 15:03pm]
[Edited 10/6/20 15:04pm]
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Reply #98 posted 10/07/20 2:32am

jaawwnn

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Margot said:

Hey guys, I was the one who said white folks can't clap on time and do not dance that well.

There were many times Prince corrected audiences in Europe to please clap on 2&4, not the 1&3.

He said that some dance well...I exaggerated to make a point about Prince liking white audiences in spite of their 'shortcomings' It was said somewhat tongue-in-cheek

Not dancing too well and hand-clapping off-time are trivial.

Otherwise, I think the conversation should go on. It can get rough, but this is how we find

out what people really think.

[Edited 10/6/20 12:56pm]

In fairness, there is a truth to granny-clapping (i.e. on the 1 & 3) and i'm fairly sure it's to do with musical traditions. We laugh at it over here as well but someone like ABBA can emerge from it. I think pop music has shown that there's nothing natural or racial about it, everyone can learn new musical things.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #99 posted 10/07/20 3:58am

udo

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Margot said:

Hey guys, I was the one who said white folks can't clap on time and do not dance that well.

.

They can.

It's just not so much in their upbringing.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #100 posted 10/07/20 5:07am

JorisE73

udo said:

Margot said:

Hey guys, I was the one who said white folks can't clap on time and do not dance that well.

.

They can.

It's just not so much in their upbringing.


This is so true, I grew up with 'Karnaval' in the Netherlands and this 1 and 3 clapping stuff is the standard for the shitty 'Hoempapa' "music" they do during 'Karnaval' festivities lol

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Reply #101 posted 10/07/20 7:47am

jaawwnn

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Well i'm glad you both agree with my post hrmph

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #102 posted 10/07/20 8:56am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

lucky for you guys, the vast majority of princes music, was firmly 4/4 with kick drums on the 1 and 3 and snares on the 2 and 4. so very easy to clap to. even housequake is like that. so you dont have to clap on the percussive stuff going on between.

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Reply #103 posted 10/08/20 12:02am

JorisE73

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

lucky for you guys, the vast majority of princes music, was firmly 4/4 with kick drums on the 1 and 3 and snares on the 2 and 4. so very easy to clap to. even housequake is like that. so you dont have to clap on the percussive stuff going on between.


lol Well I never had a pronblem with clapping on 2 and 4 (seems natural to me but then I've been drumming since I was 5 years old) but having seen Prince in the 80's and 90's almost 20 times in Netherlands, belgium and germany it was weird seeing and hearing a lot of fans clapping on the 1 and 3 or even 1,2,3,4.

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Reply #104 posted 10/08/20 3:44am

tab32792

I like this person!


Moonbeam said:

Interesting article, and interesting discussion it has caused. Prince's career was amazing in that he attracted fans from so many different walks of life - he really did create his own "Uptown" of sorts.

I think it's a valid point that there are certain aspects of Prince's career, personality, and music that would be at the very least better understood, if not only understood, by black fans. I don't see why that should be a controversial point. As a white fan born in 1980, there are surely some parts of Prince's music and career that I don't quite get due to my race and also due to my age. There are perspectives I don't have for these and other reasons that mean that certain things won't resonate with me from a sense of common experience.

I've mentioned age, but there are lots of other ways in which Prince's life experience would merge or diverge from that of other fans in ways that could influence the resonance of some of Prince's music. For instance, I'm not sure that a song like "Peach" would appeal in the same way to those who aren't attracted to women the way it may to those who are. The messages in stuff like The Rainbow Children probably don't resonate with people who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses the way they do with fans who are, etc. We all come to appreciate music and musicians from our own unique experiences and perspectives. The magic of Prince is that he somehow managed to reach us all in spite of that.

Regarding perceived attempts to claim Prince's blackness or whatever, it's completely understandable given the long history of black musical forms being co-opted and appropriated by white artists. It seems like 90% of music journalism since the dawn of rock and roll has been about putting white men playing guitars and singing in English on a pedestal at the expense of everyone else. Those artists who managed to somehow get attention in spite of this had to either be sure to smile and appear non-threatening (thinking of artists like The Temptations here and Lionel Richie post-Commodores), perversely be seen as black outliers in "white" genres (e.g. Jimi Hendrix, Living Colour), or grossly lumped together as a single genre such as "world music" or the "female genre". I fully support efforts to push back against that.

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Reply #105 posted 10/08/20 3:48am

tab32792

Yup! All of this

OldFriends4Sale said:



funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


That statement that hip hoppers were into p at this time seems a bit contrived. Almost like she csnt admit that p might not have been wholly embraced. Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb. [Edited 9/26/20 10:43am]



Since his passing, I've been taking a lot of these interviews with a grain of salt. Not to hard to realized many of them are not hardcore fans.



It was never an easy thing for me to conclude Prince into any genre of music. And not even originally being a hardcore 1990s Prince fan, having studied 1990s Prince later, Prince was doing the same thing 1980s Prince was doing, just with a more trend following bent. Prince still had his ballads and 'folk' pieces, he sorta substituted his Let's Work new wave funk for a New jack style, a little gansta rap vibe, and still a lot of rock. He was always an ax man. As he said when addressing people comparing him to Michael Jackson. He said compare him to other Ax men.



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Reply #106 posted 10/14/20 11:07pm

Phase3

I agree with those who said prince's music appeals to everyone.I attended a prince concert years ago and the audience was diverse.White,black,hispanic,very young,adult,elderly.All were there.
I happen to watch a tom petty concert the other day and all I saw in the audience were middle aged white people.I love Tom petty music but I am making a point here.
[Edited 10/14/20 23:07pm]
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Reply #107 posted 10/16/20 9:44am

AnnaSantana

TruthBomb said:

Can’t even get past the asinine headline...what a bunch of garbage 😆


Right? I mean, Prince being BLACK. That's ridiculous!
I don't argue with people about my opinions. Scram. I said what I said.
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Reply #108 posted 10/16/20 10:02am

OldFriends4Sal
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AnnaSantana said:

TruthBomb said:
Can’t even get past the asinine headline...what a bunch of garbage 😆
Right? I mean, Prince being BLACK. That's ridiculous!

two different things. [ Black - Blackness ] and both are complex. Like Nina Simone blackness and Zoe Saldana blackness.

The thanking of Joni Mitchell on albums like Dirty Mind and Controversy as well as her inspiration on Ice Cream Castles... just a tidbit of why SOTT is non '...all blackness'
like 1977-1987 it's a mix of Joni Mitchell, John L Nelson, Led Zepplin, James Brown, Chaka Khan, Santana, Liberace etc
The author of the article, I could put numbers of Prince.org academics up against them in a debate and watch them get destroyed.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
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Reply #109 posted 10/16/20 2:33pm

AnnaSantana

OldFriends4Sale said:



AnnaSantana said:


TruthBomb said:
Can’t even get past the asinine headline...what a bunch of garbage 😆

Right? I mean, Prince being BLACK. That's ridiculous!


two different things. [ Black - Blackness ] and both are complex. Like Nina Simone blackness and Zoe Saldana blackness.


The thanking of Joni Mitchell on albums like Dirty Mind and Controversy as well as her inspiration on Ice Cream Castles... just a tidbit of why SOTT is non '...all blackness'
like 1977-1987 it's a mix of Joni Mitchell, John L Nelson, Led Zepplin, James Brown, Chaka Khan, Santana, Liberace etc
The author of the article, I could put numbers of Prince.org academics up against them in a debate and watch them get destroyed.



Oh FFS .. I being sarcastic. rolleyes
I don't argue with people about my opinions. Scram. I said what I said.
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Reply #110 posted 10/16/20 4:42pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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AnnaSantana said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

two different things. [ Black - Blackness ] and both are complex. Like Nina Simone blackness and Zoe Saldana blackness.

The thanking of Joni Mitchell on albums like Dirty Mind and Controversy as well as her inspiration on Ice Cream Castles... just a tidbit of why SOTT is non '...all blackness'
like 1977-1987 it's a mix of Joni Mitchell, John L Nelson, Led Zepplin, James Brown, Chaka Khan, Santana, Liberace etc
The author of the article, I could put numbers of Prince.org academics up against them in a debate and watch them get destroyed.

Oh FFS .. I being sarcastic. rolleyes

I know, I'm just piggy backing

Sorry, I was doing 3 different things at the same time

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
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if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
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Reply #111 posted 10/16/20 7:08pm

slyjackson

White folks please clear the area.

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Reply #112 posted 10/16/20 7:18pm

Rev

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OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't even know why they titled it that. I guess to get headlines or something. The article/interview only focus 1/10 on that. Which i disagree with. Like when Questluv said Prince was hip hop. Dude I love the Roots, but come on. Dead On It.

SOTT was For You Prince Dirty Mind Controversy 1999 Purple Rain ATWIAD and Parade = This is What It's Like In the Dream Factory

Yup cool

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Reply #113 posted 10/19/20 2:23am

udo

avatar

slyjackson said:

White folks please clear the area.

.

You are severely discriminating; perhaps also showing your poltical direction.

If the whole thing is still not yet clear you have no part in this game.

If the USSA is so bad, then go to the real motherland.

If you stay then you admit you have to fight the system.

So provide the younsters with an upbrining that will fit them in the paradigm that is there.

You cannot change the color, you can change anything else.

Provide some dough to pay for education.

And see where the youth goes, comapred to current average situations.

Keep improving from there.

If you cannot fuight them, join them.

Not in the Dumbocrat regards but most of the rest.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #114 posted 10/19/20 3:17am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

slyjackson said:

White folks please clear the area.

i actually have a hunch that if it wasnt the estate doing a tokenistic move to get a black writer who would write about sott in a way that fit our current moment, daphne brooks prob told the estate that they needed to have someone like her writing about sott so it wouldnt be just all white writers in the book.

as ive said before though, id have loved someone ilke nelson george, greg tate, vernon reid, or even toure, to write something on the album. going HAAAAAARD on the left leaning, academic, sociological-cultural-political studies end and putting SOTT through a filter that doesnt quite fit it, makes for awkward reading. i read her radiohead piece, and its something similar. she is not sensitive to the work, she just has her own prism, and puts whatever she likes through it.

[Edited 10/19/20 3:19am]

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Reply #115 posted 10/19/20 7:06am

sexton

avatar

udo said:

slyjackson said:

White folks please clear the area.

.

You are severely discriminating; perhaps also showing your poltical direction.

If the whole thing is still not yet clear you have no part in this game.

If the USSA is so bad, then go to the real motherland.

If you stay then you admit you have to fight the system.

So provide the younsters with an upbrining that will fit them in the paradigm that is there.

You cannot change the color, you can change anything else.

Provide some dough to pay for education.

And see where the youth goes, comapred to current average situations.

Keep improving from there.

If you cannot fuight them, join them.

Not in the Dumbocrat regards but most of the rest.


Slyjackson is not from the USA.

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Reply #116 posted 10/19/20 2:12pm

slyjackson

sexton said:

udo said:

.

You are severely discriminating; perhaps also showing your poltical direction.

If the whole thing is still not yet clear you have no part in this game.

If the USSA is so bad, then go to the real motherland.

If you stay then you admit you have to fight the system.

So provide the younsters with an upbrining that will fit them in the paradigm that is there.

You cannot change the color, you can change anything else.

Provide some dough to pay for education.

And see where the youth goes, comapred to current average situations.

Keep improving from there.

If you cannot fuight them, join them.

Not in the Dumbocrat regards but most of the rest.


Slyjackson is not from the USA.

I'm from the USA I was born in NY bue I don't live there.

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Reply #117 posted 10/19/20 2:30pm

daingermouz202
0

My favorite Prince album but would not call it ALL BLACKNESS. Housequake and Adore are the only two I'd call R&B
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Reply #118 posted 10/19/20 2:50pm

LoveGalore

daingermouz2020 said:

My favorite Prince album but would not call it ALL BLACKNESS. Housequake and Adore are the only two I'd call R&B



Prince was not the first musician to show you that black people can do more than RnB. And in fact invented the shit in most cases.
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Reply #119 posted 10/19/20 2:51pm

LoveGalore

udo said:



slyjackson said:


White folks please clear the area.



.


You are severely discriminating; perhaps also showing your poltical direction.


If the whole thing is still not yet clear you have no part in this game.


If the USSA is so bad, then go to the real motherland.


If you stay then you admit you have to fight the system.


So provide the younsters with an upbrining that will fit them in the paradigm that is there.


You cannot change the color, you can change anything else.


Provide some dough to pay for education.


And see where the youth goes, comapred to current average situations.


Keep improving from there.


If you cannot fuight them, join them.


Not in the Dumbocrat regards but most of the rest.




Can you put a sock in it and keep your non-American political opinions in the PnR forum.
[Edited 10/19/20 14:52pm]
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