Number23 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

PRNelson said:

Number23 said:

Honestly - the insular, elitist nature of much of the Prince fan community has never failed to amaze me since becoming a fan in the 80s. Imagine any other musical artist community where fans take a perverse pride in secrecy. Bruce/NIN/Beatles - all make Prince fans look like Gollum with their precious. Prince cultivated this attitude, of course, but he’s dead - and I doubt he’d care about preserving the Estate’s future cash cows for the sake of 5000 or so hardcore fans that are left wanting to hear a concert recording. Which they will buy anyway when officially released. Saying ‘these recording are easily available’ but ‘don’t ask me where’ (and I guess that also means by org note as that’s been ignored) is absurd cloak and dagger clandestine behaviour. I get you can’t say where in public on the org, but a private communication? Prince ain’t monitoring this anymore and the chance that I’m a Web Sheriff hired by the Estate is nonexistent. I guess the buzz now, in lieu of ‘new’ releases, is not from listening to the music, but from the possession. He’s gone. It should all be shared amongst the tiny few who appreciate it. If I ever got a hold of the harddrive at Iron Mountain, you’d all be listening to Neurotic Lover’s Baby’s Bedroom within minutes. The Estate deserves none of the financial rewards of Prince’s endeavour. He deliberately didn’t make a Will. He likely wanted fate to decide what happened to it all. I personally think he should have had a legal agreement drawn up to release everything in the Vault online upon his death so no-one profited from his work.

Absolutely. I am totally out of the mix now. I hear most stuff via YouTube now due to fans being less than helpful with this kind of thing. Speaking with somebody who loves a musical moment just as much as you is one of the best things we can experience as fans. Far more fun than shielding releases from others enjoyment.

Can well relate. Before he died I had no interest in the bootlegs, it just felt wrong. But ever since, it's like a kid finding new sweets in a candy store. It's still slightly wrong but hey P isn't around any more to admonish us.
I should have got through Todd Rundgren and Utopia's back catalogue long by now, but got distracted by the as yet unreleased 80's vault material.
Take it from me, as someone who digs everything from gregorian chant to metal, some of it is the best music I've ever heard, and in no way a repeat - musically - of any of the offical releases.

All of you complaining about elitism and being out of the loop etc. are ignoring that a) this is all because Prince never allowed such sharing (despite claiming he was cool with it) and b) when it was more in the open there were always fans who'd rat out such sites to Paisley Park et al.

.

So while NIN fans can enjoy ninlive.com and occasionally get to hear liberated unreleased music via crowdfunding efforts at NIN fan forum Echoing The Sound -- e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoiled -- we cannot have such nice things.

.

There have been numerous attempts and each time they've ended badly.

BartVanHemelen said:

LoveGalore said:

Mindbells9 said:

It's definitely soundboard. It's sourced from a cassette that came directly from Wally Safford's private collection

Do people really just hold on to cassettes forever?

What would you do with yours? If it's a dupe off the source copy, and you're the source, you're not just going to upload it on whatever technology is available currently then dump it.

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

All of you complaining about elitism and being out of the loop etc. are ignoring that a) this is all because Prince never allowed such sharing (despite claiming he was cool with it) and b) when it was more in the open there were always fans who'd rat out such sites to Paisley Park et al.

.

So while NIN fans can enjoy ninlive.com and occasionally get to hear liberated unreleased music via crowdfunding efforts at NIN fan forum Echoing The Sound -- e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoiled -- we cannot have such nice things.

.

There have been numerous attempts and each time they've ended badly.

Exactly.

Number23 said:

Honestly - the insular, elitist nature of much of the Prince fan community has never failed to amaze me since becoming a fan in the 80s. Imagine any other musical artist community where fans take a perverse pride in secrecy. Bruce/NIN/Beatles - all make Prince fans look like Gollum with their precious. Prince cultivated this attitude, of course, but he’s dead - and I doubt he’d care about preserving the Estate’s future cash cows for the sake of 5000 or so hardcore fans that are left wanting to hear a concert recording. Which they will buy anyway when officially released. Saying ‘these recording are easily available’ but ‘don’t ask me where’ (and I guess that also means by org note as that’s been ignored) is absurd cloak and dagger clandestine behaviour. I get you can’t say where in public on the org, but a private communication? Prince ain’t monitoring this anymore and the chance that I’m a Web Sheriff hired by the Estate is nonexistent. I guess the buzz now, in lieu of ‘new’ releases, is not from listening to the music, but from the possession. He’s gone. It should all be shared amongst the tiny few who appreciate it. If I ever got a hold of the harddrive at Iron Mountain, you’d all be listening to Neurotic Lover’s Baby’s Bedroom within minutes. The Estate deserves none of the financial rewards of Prince’s endeavour. He deliberately didn’t make a Will. He likely wanted fate to decide what happened to it all. I personally think he should have had a legal agreement drawn up to release everything in the Vault online upon his death so no-one profited from his work.

There is no elitism. The channels are different, but all one has to do is ask someone. Most fans are quite willing to share things amongst themselves. The Org purposely guards themselves against that being a public breeding ground for trading.

The Org's rules about no direct links etc covers their ass, and rightly so. The Org doesn't want to be in the snares of Prince's lawyers. Who'd wanna be in the crosshairs of anyone's lawyer?!

TrivialPursuit said:

Number23 said:

For that particular song, an ex-Revolution bandmember who most folk will be able to guess gave it freely to a number of fans through his Facebook page. They simply asked and he gave - with a proviso that they shared it was the fans. But they didn’t. Along with quite a few other ‘rare’ songs and alternative takes from other ex band members and sources

this is absolutely hilarious and i would like more details.

Number23 said:

Number23 said:

I generally respect your opinion on these forums, throughout your many name changes, but ‘There is no elitism’ is a statement that could only originate from someone who is either a) blind 2) wilfully contrarian in nature or c) an elitist themselves, so close to the root of the problem that they cannot see its shape or form. ...

LOL this is my 2nd name on the Org after leaving years ago. So "many" seems generous.

I'm far from an elitist or in some inner circle, buh-leve me. I sit for weeks or months at a time when folks talk about a new release from 4dafunk or whatever before I'm ever able (if at all) to find a copy of something for myself. And I agree with you that those who do have stuff and don't share are the elitists, but they aren't the only ones with it. They're just the ones talking bragging about having it. (Or they're liars.)

Just to bounce back in history, the real elitist were people like T on a.m.p. who bragged about having everything and never shared much of anything. There may have been a couple others, too.

And of course we're all greedy. We wanna hear everything Prince did. I get that. But the elitist part seems invalid to a large extent only because if folks just ask, they can get a copy. I have zero direct sources. But I do have Prince fan friends who I mention it to. Sometimes one of them has it, most times they don't. It's really a hit n' miss sorta thing, I think. The non-elitists far out number someone another has labeled as an elitist.

Shit, if I had an in to something, I'd be posting shit all the fucking time. This soundcheck, that aftershow, this time Tony M. was recording and Prince farted in Damon's face. Everything. But alas, I do not.

For the record, I was very lucky to have one of those aforementioned friends send me Buffalo, Philadelphia, and First Avenue. It's the only haul I've had digitally in .... months? Maybe the biggest in the last year. Another friend mentioned the other day, "When is volume 2 of the prince complete sessions coming out?" I had no idea there was a volume 1. At least not off the top of my head. And yeah, I shared the shit out of those three with folks from the Org. I gain nothing hanging onto it.

The leaks / shares have slowed down considerably, but every once in a great while we get a nice Easter egg.

TrivialPursuit said:

Number23 said:

LoveGalore said:

So you agree then that there are elitists? Cuz people like T, Liberation, Neversin, and the late Never Forget (I think his name was Brian or Ryan, I forget) were just people who made themselves known. There's others. And they make the same bullshit agreements and vows with each other to never share. There is an entire sub-sub-sub-economy of prince trading. This so called elite trader circle. And they're all pricks. At least T sold his shit. And it's cool that sometimes Neversin takes a rest from openly insulting everyone on this site to give a two sentence review of a song. But all these cunts are miserable elitists and they have bred a generation of smaller elitist cunts who echo their sentiments in a vain bid to become one of them. Yes, as BERT mentioned, some of this has to do with Prince. But let us not be under the insidious impression that this elitist nature was born of the internet. It wasn't. The Prince community hates itself. Idk about the NIN fandom, but I do participate in the Bowie fandom and they are NOT like the Princefags on the Org and elsewhere.

Of course there are elitists, but I don't think it's a huge issue these days. Not with torrents and other ways to get stuff. As least, not as much, I'll say that. And as far as Liberation, God bless him, but he didn't have a lot of access to anything. He snagged shit from T or someone else and would boot it out in no time. T and Lib would have these battles about "I tagged this file..." or "I reversed channels on this..." It was such bullshit. Just put the fucking music out. T had a huge ego about having worked at an NPG store and collecting all these tapes that were flung around back then. I don't know much about Neversin outside of the Org. (and RIP NeverForget, didn't know him).

And I agree about the "vows." I remember T talking that mess about a friend who made him promise not to release anything, because the guy was dying. (Maybe it was NeverForget? Don't know.) And T got all up in his feelings about it and withheld shit that wasn't even his anyway.

By the way, I fully appreciate and support your use of the word cunt. Doesn't get used enough, I think. I refrain from it on here when I can, but in real life - it flies. I don't know why it's such a worse word than fuck or anything else, to some people. Probably an American thing.

SquirrelMeat said:

It doesn't sound a good as the best previous mono mix. It lacks a lot of the punch.

Sorry Bro I would have 2 disagree with that. The copy I have sounds amazing!

TrivialPursuit said:

T had a huge ego about having worked at an NPG store and collecting all these tapes that were flung around back then.

Were they tapes compiled for in house music like the Glam Slam comps?

lavendardrummachine said:

For this release it sounds stereo but the audio levels for the right channel seem much higher than the left, anyone else noticing this?

lavendardrummachine said:

TrivialPursuit said:

T had a huge ego about having worked at an NPG store and collecting all these tapes that were flung around back then.

Were they tapes compiled for in house music like the Glam Slam comps?

I don't know the extent of his sources, but a lot of it, from what I remember, was him working at the NPG Store, and they were tapes used for in-store music.

These would be awesome to hear !

TrivialPursuit said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Were they tapes compiled for in house music like the Glam Slam comps?

I don't know the extent of his sources, but a lot of it, from what I remember, was him working at the NPG Store, and they were tapes used for in-store music.

Yikes. Stealing dubs of the tapes, I get. I'd have done that. Becoming the very peon who can be credited for a source of frustration in Prince's life, and all the rest? Not so much.

I'm probably on my own with this, but it bothers me more than when his old collaborators and friends shared material that wasn't their's to share. But what else did Prince think would happen with those exclusive rare mixtapes at the end of the day?

lavendardrummachine said:

Yikes. Stealing dubs of the tapes, I get. I'd have done that. Becoming the very peon who can be credited for a source of frustration in Prince's life, and all the rest? Not so much.

I'm probably on my own with this, but it bothers me more than when his old collaborators and friends shared material that wasn't their's to share. But what else did Prince think would happen with those exclusive rare mixtapes at the end of the day?

There's no reason to get hot and bothered, though. (Just a phrase, nothing personal.) Prince threw tapes of music around all the time to friends, coworkers, employees, etc. It's no surprise this stuff was out. I sometimes think he subconsciously knew they'd get out, and given his then-fight with Warner (delay of The Gold Experience, TMBGITW being an indie release, etc.), he probably wanted that music to get out. It ended up being a thumbing of the nose to WB that so much of his music was out without them profiting from it.

Just conjecture. But T wasn't the only guy that ended up with tapes meant for the NPG store, or otherwise. He's just one that bragged about it all the damn time. He loved people kissing his ass to get a snip of this or that. He and Liberation used to go back n' forth all the damn time about shit like that. alt.music.prince was backed up w/ it. hahaha Ahhh, the days.

TrivialPursuit said:

It's no surprise this stuff was out. I sometimes think he subconsciously knew they'd get out,

Right, otherwise why be that careless, but there was also a lot of energy spent fighting off any unauthorized content online too. It's not like we can say it was harmless.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Wolfie87 said:

So what's the big deal with this concert?

for one it was Wendy's first show... And he did a few songs no one had ever heard... some really meh ones like: "Let's Go Crazy" "Computer Blue" "Baby I'm a Star" "I Would Die 4 U" and some obscure song called "Purple Rain" *the last three would be used as the basis for the actual album releases. It had the full version of "Purple Rain" with an extra verse in it...

Also "Electric Intercourse" A cover of "A Case of You" "DMSR" "Automatic" "When You Where Mine"


There are few shows from this time that rival this: June 7 1984... and Sept 23 at Bogart's

Where was Bogart's? I mean what state and/or city was this venue??

Seahorsie said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

for one it was Wendy's first show... And he did a few songs no one had ever heard... some really meh ones like: "Let's Go Crazy" "Computer Blue" "Baby I'm a Star" "I Would Die 4 U" and some obscure song called "Purple Rain" *the last three would be used as the basis for the actual album releases. It had the full version of "Purple Rain" with an extra verse in it...

Also "Electric Intercourse" A cover of "A Case of You" "DMSR" "Automatic" "When You Where Mine"


There are few shows from this time that rival this: June 7 1984... and Sept 23 at Bogart's

Where was Bogart's? I mean what state and/or city was this venue??

Cincinnati, Ohio... it is still open... the show was a very early PR try out that was a secret show.

lustmealways said:

yeahronimo said:

Could you provide more details? Dates?

yes. forgive me. it makes me sound cooler when i'm cryptic.

12/17/84 buffalo

other one undated

Do you know the tracklist?