Just my thought, but you know how kids are brutally honest when they are young, and tend to speak exactly what's on their minds, I think the same happens when a person ages and grows old, because they tend to be the same. I'm guessing it's because elderly people know that their time of life is ending, so they just don't care anymore, and simply speak the truth and exactly what's on their minds. Also, I've heard the saying that the elderly become childlike again as they age, and that seems to be true, especially if you've ever experienced that with an elderly person, and I have seen it before.

[Edited 7/29/20 7:55am]

It's also a matter of looking at the things that were 'big deals' back in our youth and realizing that those things just really weren't that important in the grand scheme of things. We hopefully evolve into better people as we grow up and let others just live there lives how they want to live them.

looby said:

Just my thought, but you know how kids are brutally honest when they are young, and tend to speak exactly what's on their minds, I think the same happens when a person ages and grows old, because they tend to be the same. I'm guessing it's because elderly people know that their time of life is ending, so they just don't care anymore, and simply speak the truth and exactly what's on their minds. Also, I've heard the saying that the elderly become childlike again as they age, and that seems to be true, especially if you've ever experienced that with an elderly person, and I have seen it before.

[Edited 7/29/20 7:55am]

what others already said....

Prince may be the best allrounder and versatile, even more than Stevie

but piano or otherwise, for each and every instrument he excelled, you will still find some cracks who are/were better
for the life of me, I can not believe there are fans out there who think different??



so let me flip this. challenge to the Quincy haters:

tell me an instrument where Prince is Number 1, the best of them all, in all of music history

[Edited 7/30/20 1:46am]

BombSquad said:

what others already said....

Prince may be the best allrounder and versatile, even more than Stevie

but piano or otherwise, for each and every instrument he excelled, you will still find some cracks who are/were better
for the life of me, I can not believe there are fans out there who think different??



so let me flip this. challenge to the Quincy haters:

tell me an instrument where Prince is Number 1, the best of them all, in all of music history

[Edited 7/30/20 1:46am]

Its hard for somebody like Quincy's caliber to have an exaggerated view about Prince' piano abilities, this guy worked with Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson and Lionel Hampton (who was a monstrous pianists and far superior technically than alot of his peers even, despite him being popular with the vibes). What on earth would Quincy hate on Prince for? The guy's input was enriched in music globally just like Prince, sometimes even more because he went above & beyond his immediate circles (re: the current band) in a longer time span, and was/is insanely wealthy.

I look at Prince the same way I look at Sly, in the sense that both were studio wizards, they weren't the best at their instruments especially compared to their peers, but they created music alternate worlds so to speak from what little they could do in each instrument thus making music sonically that didn't sound like anyone else but themselves which defied any kinds of limitations, they were prolific in that nature. Prince's genius also relied on his constant sense of curiosity, he kept learning and kept crafting his playing throughout his life, hence why he cringed at his own guitar playing in the early years. He took that crafting on stage especially in those aftershows were they felt like jam sessions as opposed to performances. So whats his number 1 instrument? Hard to tell, he was self-critical about his abilities hence the earlier point, so it would be absured and short sighted to over-exaggerate him based on mere admiration.

homesquid said:

SPYZFAN1 said:

Quincy is still mad that P never showed up at the "We Are The World" sessions..or the time he put his lollipop in his face at that awards show years ago.

Prince made an ASS of himself. It was embarrassing. One of the low points of his career. I was ashamed of being a Prince fan after that display of selfish egotism.

It wasn't necessarily a disply of selfishness or egotism. Perhaps Prince simply wasn't comfortable singing in that moment.

I don't know why peeps even bother to come on this site! Making such a nasty remark about someone that isn't here anymore is SO disrepectful & uncalled for.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I don't know why peeps even bother to come on this site! Making such a nasty remark about someone that isn't here anymore is SO disrepectful & uncalled for.

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore. The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not. That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say. That's something I will never agree with.

looby said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I don't know why peeps even bother to come on this site! Making such a nasty remark about someone that isn't here anymore is SO disrepectful & uncalled for.

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore. The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not. That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say. That's something I will never agree with.

That message wasn't aimed at U. But whether Prince{r.i.p.| is here or not is besides the point.

I'M HERE! I will FOREVER protect his legacy of ANY disrepectful things said about him as a person or his character!

ChocolateBox3121 said:

looby said:

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore. The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not. That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say. That's something I will never agree with.

That message wasn't aimed at U. But whether Prince{r.i.p.| is here or not is besides the point.

I'M HERE! I will FOREVER protect his legacy of ANY disrepectful things said about him as a person or his character!

I know the message wasn't aimed at me ChocolateBox3121, I just replied to what you said, no offense meant. And I'm all for protecting Prince's legacy against disrespect, because I am a fan that loves the man as well. I just think that people can say whatever they want to, and while we may not like it, that's their right. That's all I'm saying, nothing more.

looby said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I don't know why peeps even bother to come on this site! Making such a nasty remark about someone that isn't here anymore is SO disrepectful & uncalled for.

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore.

The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not.

That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say.

That's something I will never agree with.

Yeah, well I'm starting to believe I'd rather go back to a time
where only journalists had a right to write.

Because giving a voice to anyone sure has brought a shitload of noise and toxicity.
There was a time when being allowed to write something for the public eye
came with strong requirements.

I get often accused of being verbose, and while I couldn't give a shit,
it's usually by folks who don't bother to express themselves with more than a few lines.
They bring nothing to the table, they run away from debating.

They just drop their reaction, barely an opinion, unfiltered.
They hit "Reply" like an urge to pee.


If the only thing you have to say is how you feel,
then just shut the fuck up, I beg you.
This isn't about you and your God-given right to liberty.
It's just you making a little noise.
It's a mind fart.

On the other hand, if you go deep enough, squeeze out your brain
and take the time to articulate your thought, if you bring facts or even concepts to support it,
if you're able to go beyond the much convenient single-line barking,
then whatever your opinion is, no matter how extreme, you'll always have my ear.

What we need are social networks where messages under 280 characters are forbidden.
And a filter that would supress any message containing only 5th grade vocabulary.

The Sociopath in Chief wouldn't have an echo chamber under these conditions, that's for sure.

This is a planet full of lazy, illiterate fucks.
Violent too, cutting heads, dismembering bodies with their thumbs, their asses on their sofas, motionless.
A massive crowd of polluted brains, swallowing pre-digested images and sounds, numb to horrors.

What would their ideas or reactions being any different than pre-digested?
Who could ever learn critical thinking and expression in this lamentable environment?

It's about time to silence the noise.
And to filter out the crowds and their thoughtless, instinctive reactions.
The little dopamine rush they get from it. "I have a voice!". Well dude, the Callas you ain't.
You use petabytes for absolutely nothing, except spreading belief and fear the world is utter chaos.

It's not.
There's just too much noise.

You want to formulate something?
Work on it. Stop trying to pass off making phrases as expression.
Making phrases is what five years old do.


As for Q, he certainly didn't express "hate", just disdain.
But by doing so, he made a disservice to jazz, by keeping it
as something for the elites only, instead of considering Prince
the perfect bridge bewteen popular music and savant music.

And for someone who has such a high opinion of musicianship,
he sure commited himself on producing the most commercial shit ever sold,
for one of the sickest personalities in the whole show-business.

I couldn't give a rat's ass fuck if he knows Hampton or Peterson or Hancock.
Jazz could never cross over to the masses, and that's a shame, but that's
because these guys are busy having such a high opinion of themselves and their music.
Maj/sus#4th, 13th aug. and all that jazz.

Q is such a hypocrite. Why didn't he stay in his high revered circles then?
Why go on producing a guy so mentally disturbed he had to butcher his own face?
"Off The Wall" is great pop, for the ages.

After that, came "When Doves Cry", which is a thousand way more potent than any shit on "Thriller",
or whatever song of whatever MJ album that followed.

Q never got around the fact that you can sell millions,
if doesn't make up for quality. So rant all you want, Quincy.
First, you're a traitor to your own musical cause.
Second, you worked for a very, very sick manchild.


And to the one who defended him:
MJ, humble? The guy who wrote "100 millions" on mirrors,
because that's all "Bad" was about to him?

The guy who wanted to be shot needing the army or the police when going out on the streets?

The guy who commissioned a Stalinist statue of himself
and had it filmed on a boat, for the whole world to see?

The guy who dubbed himself "King"?
Whose every image presented him as The Christ,
with his believers fainting from ecstasy?

The guy who, the night that sappy crap was recorded,
was the only guy with a golden sequin jacket and sunglasses,
where everybody else was dressing casual (at least Lauper had it in her DNA)?

Humble my ass. MJ was a sick manchild, with nothing but vocal mannerisms
cleverly stolen from Stevie Wonder and the whole Motown team.
An incredible acrobat, the most savant monkey.
"She's Out Of My Life" is everything but honest. So is "Dirty Diana".
Yet, it's so good we want to believe in it. That's what supension of disbelief is all about.

The opposite of Prince and its almost constant psychoanalytical search for his true self.

MJ was all about hiding who he truly was (until his body language in "You Are Not Alone"
was too blatant to be ignored. By the way, here's another lovely ballad
which we would never have guessed could be written by a monster. It's a world full of surprises).

There was a time where MJ wouldn't have denied all his moves were taken from by Bob Fosse.
Then the eighties made him a monster, and a monster he became.
Only a madman does this.

Poor Michael. They sure fucked your brain to the core.


And to the naive soul who claimed WATW "got the job done":

So typical of the Western arrogance. Go ask some Africans first.
The organisation itself admits the first year was lost (page 8 and 9)
because of inexperience, just like Band Aid's.
You don't improvise yourself as a benefactor, it never worked, and never will.

You gotta dig the internet for the truth.
You think MJJ Productions wants you to know they flopped the first millions?

"Got the job done"? Ha! Good one.

As Dylan sings, "You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?".
And then Africa was left back to its own devices, and got fucked and raped
by potentates enabled by the very Western World who lend such a helpful hand,
when the American Top 40 was the only gauge for measuring social commitment.

But that sure didn't stop "Humble Michael"
to invest some more in yet another PR stunt, appearing to the masses
like the pope when any star of his caliber can travel anonymously
before gracing the Brasilian favelas of his utterly divine (oh, but so humble) presence.

Still needing the police to prevent the peasants from touching His Majesty though.

[Edited 7/30/20 16:26pm]

[Edited 7/30/20 17:16pm]

Oh God no, at least not today's so called journalists.

bonatoc said:

looby said:

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore.

The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not.

That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say.

That's something I will never agree with.

Yeah, well I'm starting to believe I'd rather go back to a time
where only journalists had a right to write.

bonatoc said:

looby said:

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore.

The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not.

That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say.

That's something I will never agree with.

Yeah, well I'm starting to believe I'd rather go back to a time
where only journalists had a right to write.

Because giving a voice to anyone sure has brought a shitload of noise and toxicity.
There was a time when being allowed to write something for the public eye
came with strong requirements.

I get often accused of being verbose, and while I couldn't give a shit,
it's usually by folks who don't bother to express themselves with more than a few lines.
They bring nothing to the table, they run away from debating.

They just drop their reaction, barely an opinion, unfiltered.
They hit "Reply" like an urge to pee.


If the only thing you have to say is how you feel,
then just shut the fuck up, I beg you.
This isn't about you and your God-given right to liberty.
It's just you making a little noise.
It's a mind fart.

On the other hand, if you go deep enough, squeeze out your brain
and take the time to articulate your thought, if you bring facts or even concepts to support it,
if you're able to go beyond the much convenient single-line barking,
then whatever your opinion is, no matter how extreme, you'll always have my ear.

What we need are social networks where messages under 280 characters are forbidden.
And a filter that would supress any message containing only 5th grade vocabulary.

The Sociopath in Chief wouldn't have an echo chamber under these conditions, that's for sure.

This is a planet full of lazy, illiterate fucks.
Violent too, cutting heads, dismembering bodies with their thumbs, their asses on their sofas, motionless.
A massive crowd of polluted brains, swallowing pre-digested images and sounds, numb to horrors.

What would their ideas or reactions being any different than pre-digested?
Who could ever learn critical thinking and expression in this lamentable environment?

It's about time to silence the noise.
And to filter out the crowds and their thoughtless, instinctive reactions.
The little dopamine rush they get from it. "I have a voice!". Well dude, the Callas you ain't.
You use petabytes for absolutely nothing, except spreading belief and fear the world is utter chaos.

It's not.
There's just too much noise.

You want to formulate something?
Work on it. Stop trying to pass off making phrases as expression.
Making phrases is what five years old do.


As for Q, he certainly didn't express "hate", just disdain.
But by doing so, he made a disservice to jazz, by keeping it
as something for the elites only, instead of considering Prince
the perfect bridge bewteen popular music and savant music.

And for someone who has such a high opinion of musicianship,
he sure commited himself on producing the most commercial shit ever sold,
for one of the sickest personalities in the whole show-business.

I couldn't give a rat's ass fuck if he knows Hampton or Peterson or Hancock.
Jazz could never cross over to the masses, and that's a shame, but that's
because these guys are busy having such a high opinion of themselves and their music.
Maj/sus#4th, 13th aug. and all that jazz.

Q is such a hypocrite. Why didn't he stay in his high revered circles then?
Why go on producing a guy so mentally disturbed he had to butcher his own face?
"Off The Wall" is great pop, for the ages.

After that, came "When Doves Cry", which is a thousand way more potent than any shit on "Thriller",
or whatever song of whatever MJ album that followed.

Q never got around the fact that you can sell millions,
if doesn't make up for quality. So rant all you want, Quincy.
First, you're a traitor to your own musical cause.
Second, you worked for a very, very sick manchild.


And to the one who defended him:
MJ, humble? The guy who wrote "100 millions" on mirrors,
because that's all "Bad" was about to him?

The guy who wanted to be shot needing the army or the police when going out on the streets?

The guy who commissioned a Stalinist statue of himself
and had it filmed on a boat, for the whole world to see?

The guy who dubbed himself "King"?
Whose every image presented him as The Christ,
with his believers fainting from ecstasy?

The guy who, the night that sappy crap was recorded,
was the only guy with a golden sequin jacket and sunglasses,
where everybody else was dressing casual (at least Lauper had it in her DNA)?

Humble my ass. MJ was a sick manchild, with nothing but vocal mannerisms
cleverly stolen from Stevie Wonder and the whole Motown team.
An incredible acrobat, the most savant monkey.
"She's Out Of My Life" is everything but honest. So is "Dirty Diana".
Yet, it's so good we want to believe in it. That's what supension of disbelief is all about.

The opposite of Prince and its almost constant psychoanalytical search for his true self.

MJ was all about hiding who he truly was (until his body language in "You Are Not Alone"
was too blatant to be ignored. By the way, here's another lovely ballad
which we would never have guessed could be written by a monster. It's a world full of surprises).

There was a time where MJ wouldn't have denied all his moves were taken from by Bob Fosse.
Then the eighties made him a monster, and a monster he became.
Only a madman does this.

Poor Michael. They sure fucked your brain to the core.


And to the naive soul who claimed WATW "got the job done":

So typical of the Western arrogance. Go ask some Africans first.
The organisation itself admits the first year was lost (page 8 and 9)
because of inexperience, just like Band Aid's.
You don't improvise yourself as a benefactor, it never worked, and never will.

You gotta dig the internet for the truth.
You think MJJ Productions wants you to know they flopped the first millions?

"Got the job done"? Ha! Good one.

As Dylan sings, "You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?".
And then Africa was left back to its own devices, and got fucked and raped
by potentates enabled by the very Western World who lend such a helpful hand,
when the American Top 40 was the only gauge for measuring social commitment.

But that sure didn't stop "Humble Michael"
to invest some more in yet another PR stunt, appearing to the masses
like the pope when any star of his caliber can travel anonymously
before gracing the Brasilian favelas of his utterly divine (oh, but so humble) presence.

Still needing the police to prevent the peasants from touching His Majesty though.

[Edited 7/30/20 16:26pm]

[Edited 7/30/20 17:16pm]

Sorry 4 the short reply, but damn......nice reply.

Calling a black man a "savant monkey" ....

wow

Prog5000 said:

Q has always had a problem with being in the shadows. His input throughout the years has been crucial but he always tries to downplay the artist and talk up his work.

That has been my main criticism of Quincy for some time. It has to be about HIM

[Edited 7/31/20 0:37am]

bonatoc said:

bboy87 said:

Calling a black man a "savant monkey" ....

wow

I'm mortified.


I meant "trained monkey".


(Dude, seriously?)


Have you seen his childhood?
He was raised as such.

I have nothing to do with Joe enslaving his poor son
at a tender age. Michael was a rough stone
that was cut into a diamond too soon, too fast.

He became a phenomenal vocal performer because of all the rage and frustration
boiling inside for too long. I'm not sure if it's a good thing.
You'll have to ask the two dudes who left Neverland.

Michael's rage turned out to be lots of fun for 80's adolescents,
except when he was singing about women and relationships,
which he didn't know squat about (Michael, for the kid to be your son,
you first have to put your thing inside the girl's thing).

Impressive interpretations, powerful, moving, but...
baseless, phony, acted.
Like a trained...
Is "actor" politically correct enough for ya?


Besides, calling "black" a man who kept on planing
his beautiful big ol' nose until it got to the width of a toothpick is debatable.
Don't start me on the bleach injections, and his heavy metal obsession.
It doesn't matter if you're Black Or White, but apparently, the whiter the better.


Which is so sad, because the Thriller video was the most intelligent
thing you could have come up with about black social status under Reagania.
Depicting black as a menace for the peaceful suburbs of America was so smart.

Except the social commentary was by accident, just like the scarecrow in "The Wiz".
Michael was just being childish, and having fun for the sake of it.

And that was OK, who needs politics, we forgave it all until the "Black Or White" video came along,
which is some serious white colonialist shit propaganda, where blacks are depicted as zulus,
Indians wear folklore robes, Native Indians are nothing more than Far-West extras.

The stupid morphing end, trying to dilute every culture
into one happy Coca-Cola® ad, sorry, Pepsi™, is abysmal.
By the nineties, Michael was expected to act like a grown-up.

The Black Panther riot reference could have been smart, but like the postcard world that preceded it,
he turned it into an innocuous platform for promoting his moves which by now,
were becoming the same ol' repeated shit (minus the balls grabbing novelty,
probably for fear that some cannibal woman would come at night and eat them).

I would have gladly welcome any serious discourse on race from Michael.
At first I thought the face sculpting was political. A race/gender statement of some kind.
But that never came. He was to scared to lose status and dineros.
Anything, anything, anything for money.


When it comes to social issues (as much as pop music can pretend to cover them),
Miss Jackson was the Nasty one, raising unwanted pregnancies issues
and identity manifestos while managing to keep the fun alive.
"Fear Of A Black Planet" it certainly ain't.

But like Prince, Jam & Lewis were raised in one of the whitest big cities of America,
not in Berry's Gordy hard-earned Xanadu, where black was beautiful
by definition (which makes Michael's hate for his physical
aspect even more incomprehensible).
They brought spoiled Janet to awareness, and adulthood.


If you want to defend "the black man" from whatever attack you imagined,
I think ther are better examples than Michael Jackson.

bonatoc said:

looby said:

That's just it, he isn't here anymore, so I don't think he cares, at all what anyone says about him anymore.

The thing is, people can say whatever they feel, they're allowed, whether we agree with it or not.

That's the wrong that is going on in the world right now, with people trying to silence other people, cancelling them because they don't like to hear or agree with what they say.

That's something I will never agree with.

Yeah, well I'm starting to believe I'd rather go back to a time
where only journalists had a right to write.

Because giving a voice to anyone sure has brought a shitload of noise and toxicity.
There was a time when being allowed to write something for the public eye
came with strong requirements.

I get often accused of being verbose, and while I couldn't give a shit,
it's usually by folks who don't bother to express themselves with more than a few lines.
They bring nothing to the table, they run away from debating.

They just drop their reaction, barely an opinion, unfiltered.
They hit "Reply" like an urge to pee.


If the only thing you have to say is how you feel,
then just shut the fuck up, I beg you.
This isn't about you and your God-given right to liberty.
It's just you making a little noise.
It's a mind fart.

On the other hand, if you go deep enough, squeeze out your brain
and take the time to articulate your thought, if you bring facts or even concepts to support it,
if you're able to go beyond the much convenient single-line barking,
then whatever your opinion is, no matter how extreme, you'll always have my ear.

What we need are social networks where messages under 280 characters are forbidden.
And a filter that would supress any message containing only 5th grade vocabulary.

The Sociopath in Chief wouldn't have an echo chamber under these conditions, that's for sure.

This is a planet full of lazy, illiterate fucks.
Violent too, cutting heads, dismembering bodies with their thumbs, their asses on their sofas, motionless.
A massive crowd of polluted brains, swallowing pre-digested images and sounds, numb to horrors.

What would their ideas or reactions being any different than pre-digested?
Who could ever learn critical thinking and expression in this lamentable environment?

It's about time to silence the noise.
And to filter out the crowds and their thoughtless, instinctive reactions.
The little dopamine rush they get from it. "I have a voice!". Well dude, the Callas you ain't.
You use petabytes for absolutely nothing, except spreading belief and fear the world is utter chaos.

It's not.
There's just too much noise.

You want to formulate something?
Work on it. Stop trying to pass off making phrases as expression.
Making phrases is what five years old do.


As for Q, he certainly didn't express "hate", just disdain.
But by doing so, he made a disservice to jazz, by keeping it
as something for the elites only, instead of considering Prince
the perfect bridge bewteen popular music and savant music.

And for someone who has such a high opinion of musicianship,
he sure commited himself on producing the most commercial shit ever sold,
for one of the sickest personalities in the whole show-business.

I couldn't give a rat's ass fuck if he knows Hampton or Peterson or Hancock.
Jazz could never cross over to the masses, and that's a shame, but that's
because these guys are busy having such a high opinion of themselves and their music.
Maj/sus#4th, 13th aug. and all that jazz.

Q is such a hypocrite. Why didn't he stay in his high revered circles then?
Why go on producing a guy so mentally disturbed he had to butcher his own face?
"Off The Wall" is great pop, for the ages.

After that, came "When Doves Cry", which is a thousand way more potent than any shit on "Thriller",
or whatever song of whatever MJ album that followed.

Q never got around the fact that you can sell millions,
if doesn't make up for quality. So rant all you want, Quincy.
First, you're a traitor to your own musical cause.
Second, you worked for a very, very sick manchild.


And to the one who defended him:
MJ, humble? The guy who wrote "100 millions" on mirrors,
because that's all "Bad" was about to him?

The guy who wanted to be shot needing the army or the police when going out on the streets?

The guy who commissioned a Stalinist statue of himself
and had it filmed on a boat, for the whole world to see?

The guy who dubbed himself "King"?
Whose every image presented him as The Christ,
with his believers fainting from ecstasy?

The guy who, the night that sappy crap was recorded,
was the only guy with a golden sequin jacket and sunglasses,
where everybody else was dressing casual (at least Lauper had it in her DNA)?

Humble my ass. MJ was a sick manchild, with nothing but vocal mannerisms
cleverly stolen from Stevie Wonder and the whole Motown team.
An incredible acrobat, the most savant monkey.
"She's Out Of My Life" is everything but honest. So is "Dirty Diana".
Yet, it's so good we want to believe in it. That's what supension of disbelief is all about.

The opposite of Prince and its almost constant psychoanalytical search for his true self.

MJ was all about hiding who he truly was (until his body language in "You Are Not Alone"
was too blatant to be ignored. By the way, here's another lovely ballad
which we would never have guessed could be written by a monster. It's a world full of surprises).

There was a time where MJ wouldn't have denied all his moves were taken from by Bob Fosse.
Then the eighties made him a monster, and a monster he became.
Only a madman does this.

Poor Michael. They sure fucked your brain to the core.


And to the naive soul who claimed WATW "got the job done":

So typical of the Western arrogance. Go ask some Africans first.
The organisation itself admits the first year was lost (page 8 and 9)
because of inexperience, just like Band Aid's.
You don't improvise yourself as a benefactor, it never worked, and never will.

You gotta dig the internet for the truth.
You think MJJ Productions wants you to know they flopped the first millions?

"Got the job done"? Ha! Good one.

As Dylan sings, "You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?".
And then Africa was left back to its own devices, and got fucked and raped
by potentates enabled by the very Western World who lend such a helpful hand,
when the American Top 40 was the only gauge for measuring social commitment.

But that sure didn't stop "Humble Michael"
to invest some more in yet another PR stunt, appearing to the masses
like the pope when any star of his caliber can travel anonymously
before gracing the Brasilian favelas of his utterly divine (oh, but so humble) presence.

Still needing the police to prevent the peasants from touching His Majesty though.

[Edited 7/30/20 16:26pm]

[Edited 7/30/20 17:16pm]

All of these words, just to cling to a "Highlander", "There Can Only Be One" illusion of which the shelf life is long expired. Not to mention, RACIST. "Savant monkey"? Get a grip. And the clarfication later, is laughable.

This tends to be a habit of non-black fans of Prince that are stuck in the '80s, so consumed by this illusion that they say (write) such ahistorical, fictional nonsense and wrap it up in moralistic, flowerly, urbane language to assert their "superiority". Some "black" fans do this too, but I wager they are the type depicted by the role Samuel L. Jackson portrayed in Django Unchained.

Prince fans really gotta let this stuff go. Just enjoy the man's music and stop being sensitive about any comparisons to your favorite or what those other fans say. Your slip ends up showing when you get out of pocket like this.

bonatoc said:

Let me apologize if the "monkey" term hurt some of you.
I'm afraid it's a cultural thing.

My reference was taken from Amadeus, the scene
where Salieri, still a kid, tries to explain his admiration for Mozart
to his father, to which he replies in this fashion.

I went for a comparison with what Joseph Jackson did to his son.
He denied Michael a normal life, with dire consequences.

Jackson's origins and background had nothing to do with my point.
I take it you're familiar with the circus reference,
and race has nothing to do with it.
I was referencing the terrible burden of having to learn to perform
against your will, under torture if necessary (and Joseph was violent).


But when you brought in accusation of racism though,
I had to react and go down the rabbithole to underline
that Michael was the first to have issues with his aspect,
mainly because of Joseph's constant belittlements.

Later on, Michael's relationship with his own identity
became something else, much more pathological in my opinion,
but feel free to consider it standard.


Personally I consider the "Bad" video to be the biggest
public shaming of black identity ever witnessed on a global scale,
and the message sent to the white kids population could only be
received as "being black is shameful, dirty".

I consider what Michael did to himself and to the Collective Consciousness
(when there was still such a thing) post Thriller a terrible thing.
Imagine the social consequences of such a behaviour for an entire generation.
He wasn't just a star. He was the one and only mega-star back then. Way fewer medias.
Madonna and Prince were sidekicks in, comparison.
When Michael batted an eyelash it made the world headlines.


The saddest thing, it's that the cross-over was done,
no one was thinking about Michael's origins in white schoolyards.
And if someone did, it was positive. The Beverly Hills Cop
hitting theaters in 1984 finished the job.
Then "Purple Rain", then Whitney Houston, (then alas, Bill Cosby), then Whoopi Goldberg...
Cross-over became a recurrent global phenomenon.

For the first time, a black character wasn't the sidekick of police detectives,
or a rice brand ambassador.
Michael was the one and only, the indisputable Star.
Numero uno, across the world, from Scandinavia to South America.


Then came "Bad", and bad it went.
It's like he shifted in reverse for no reason.
Unless the reason was "100 million".

Diluting your identity to appeal to an even wider audience.
This I consider fucking racist, besides being greedy.

Take your time, watch the first minutes of this Scorcese's turd.
This video is all about "white is better, you should play by the book".
I forgot how much it's subservient.
Michael presented himself as the alternative to be black,
an alternative to the social reality that lots experienced in the eighties,
save the usual few success stories.

As if selling drugs was somebody's aspiration in life, as if Michael
could right all the wrong in the world with some back-flips and a moonwalk,
embodying the illusory "success story" of becoming just another sucker for the white power
with his good grades.
Get a diploma, and suddenly no one will judge you
by the color of your skin ever again.
Ha! Good one, Michael.


You could say the U.S. got Obama, so some progress was made.
But take a good look at America today. Look at what just happened
and continues to happen. Who would call this progress?

The numbers never truly changed. The successful black figure is
oh so convenient to the system for maintaining the status quo.

It's been the same shit for forty years and counting (feel free to count centuries),
but hey, what do I care? I was born on the good side of the fence.



So sorry for the misunderstanding, race had nothing to do with it
(otherwise what would I be on the Org? Makes no sense).
I meant the exploitation of a natural talent by an adult.

Joseph twisted his child and made him obsessed.
The system wants you believe that this is fantastic.
Personally, I wish that "Thriller" had never happened,
because the artist that the world had until then was phenomenal.
And most of all, natural.


But the years of abuse were still there,
and artistic ambition one day became ambition per se.
And it destroyed him.
I would have never thought that Michael would one day lip-sync.
But he did, and for decades.

I'm talking about one of the greatest losses in pop music.
I'm not bashing Michael, I'm fucking angry I lost
a childhood hero, and a unique talent to the system and an abuser.


Quincy Jones doesn't seem to give a fuck that the very record
that made Michael a superstar also became his doom.
Myself, I would rather have saved a human being instead of "the record industry",
as Q infamously claimed before starting the Thriller sessions.

A humble man would at least acknowledge in retrospect
that what happened to MJ was the most gruesome side effect of a world-scale success.
But he's probably too busy repeating he produced the damned record.

[Edited 7/31/20 12:44pm]

bonatoc said:

bonatoc said:

Yo bonatoc, you take a couple of adderall before you write your word vomit?

ThatWhiteDude said:

Free2BMe said:

You got all kind of shit wrong in your rant against MJ. Typical. Maybe I missed something but why are you blaming Michael for the “We Are The World” project? Wasn’t that the idea of Stevie Wonder and Quincy Jones? Quincy asked Michael and Lionel to write a song. According to Lionel, Michael was the one who composed the majority of the song, and Lionel stated that he only had minimal imput. WTF does that have to do with Michael “copying” Geldof. You people always come up with BS to take a swipe at MJ. Btw, what gives you the audacity to think that Prince respected Michael anymore than Michael respected him? Speculation? Rumor? It was Michael that always tried to be friendly to Prince, not the other way around. So where do you come up with the rationale that Prince was the o e doing the respecting? Bullshit. Another topic that you rant about is “vanity”. How the hell are you going to talk as if MJ was vain and Prince was not? Everybody and their “mama”, including everybody that worked with Prince KNEW that he was vain. For YEARS, I have heard people, even fellow artists, speak of how arrogant and vain Prince was. Jimmie and Terry, Morris, Jessie, Andre just to name a FEW. FTR, most people who worked with MJ,met him, or knew him said he was very humble. I’ve never heard ANYONE say that Michael was arrogant around them. Of course, you want to portray MJ in the worst light and act as if vanity only applies to him. I guess you forget that music aficionados that have been around for over 35+ years, like me, know about BOTH Prince AND MJ. You are not regurgitating this crap around some teenager who has not been around to debunk your rhetoric. FINALLY, as usual, you want to put all the blame on Michael because Prince didn’t participate in the We Are The World project. That was Prince’s decision and his decision alone. WTF did Michael have to do with that decision? Of course, you and others HAVE to drag MJ into your distorted discussion, as an EXCUSE for your agenda to diminish or tear down MJ at every opportunity. Grow the fu*k up, MJ had shit to do with why Prince didn’t participate in We Are The World. Prince wanted to his own thing,because Prince’s vanity would never allow him to work with others on something that he didn’t control. That’s the way Prince was; a d you, other fans and even non-fans know what I am saying is the truth. However, don’t try and act as if MJ was the reason for Prince’s vanity decision.FTR, I have no problem with Prince submitting his own song to the album. I just have a problem with him acting as if the project wasn’t worthy of his involvement. That was arrogant and vain. I’m truly sick of people stirring the MJ vs Prince pot. It has no validity and makes you and others like you look immature and insecure. [Edited 7/26/20 11:21am] [Edited 7/26/20 12:00pm] [Edited 7/26/20 12:05pm]

Prince just didn't want to work with other people, there was nothing arrogant about that. He. Just. Didn't. Want. To. Participate. But MJ, Quincy and their little fans are offended by it. MJ didn't have anything to do with prince declining. But claiming that prince was just too arrogant to participate is also kinda shitty.

Prince was only confident in working with people who are less talented than him(lisa and wendy) we are the world had people that could match him or exceed and ran away from it....kinda like how Lebron James never competed in dunk contest because he knew he couldnt compete with Jordans legacy in the event....

BombSquad said:

so let me flip this. challenge to the Quincy haters:

tell me an instrument where Prince is Number 1, the best of them all, in all of music history

nothing? as expected

Quincy: 1 - P-stans: 0

BombSquad said:

BombSquad said:

so let me flip this. challenge to the Quincy haters:

tell me an instrument where Prince is Number 1, the best of them all, in all of music history

nothing? as expected

Quincy: 1 - P-stans: 0

lol.....I'll take Prince and his career over anyone including Jones.

#1? What does that even mean in terms of music.

I don't see what is difficult here whichever side of the argument you take.

was Prince the best guitarist ever? No

the best pianist? No

the best drummer? No

the best producer? No

the best arranger? No

the best composer? Debatable

was he the only person we have seen that was even in an argument in being the best at all the above?absolutely.

has anyone come close to being as proficient in ALL of the above? No.

bonatoc said:

Yeah, well I'm starting to believe I'd rather go back to a time
where only journalists had a right to write.

Because giving a voice to anyone sure has brought a shitload of noise and toxicity.
There was a time when being allowed to write something for the public eye
came with strong requirements.

I get often accused of being verbose, and while I couldn't give a shit,
it's usually by folks who don't bother to express themselves with more than a few lines.
They bring nothing to the table, they run away from debating.

They just drop their reaction, barely an opinion, unfiltered.
They hit "Reply" like an urge to pee.


If the only thing you have to say is how you feel,
then just shut the fuck up, I beg you.
This isn't about you and your God-given right to liberty.
It's just you making a little noise.
It's a mind fart.

On the other hand, if you go deep enough, squeeze out your brain
and take the time to articulate your thought, if you bring facts or even concepts to support it,
if you're able to go beyond the much convenient single-line barking,
then whatever your opinion is, no matter how extreme, you'll always have my ear.

What we need are social networks where messages under 280 characters are forbidden.
And a filter that would supress any message containing only 5th grade vocabulary.

The Sociopath in Chief wouldn't have an echo chamber under these conditions, that's for sure.

This is a planet full of lazy, illiterate fucks.
Violent too, cutting heads, dismembering bodies with their thumbs, their asses on their sofas, motionless.
A massive crowd of polluted brains, swallowing pre-digested images and sounds, numb to horrors.

What would their ideas or reactions being any different than pre-digested?
Who could ever learn critical thinking and expression in this lamentable environment?

It's about time to silence the noise.
And to filter out the crowds and their thoughtless, instinctive reactions.
The little dopamine rush they get from it. "I have a voice!". Well dude, the Callas you ain't.
You use petabytes for absolutely nothing, except spreading belief and fear the world is utter chaos.

It's not.
There's just too much noise.

You want to formulate something?
Work on it. Stop trying to pass off making phrases as expression.
Making phrases is what five years old do.

I've been having similar thoughts for quite a few years.

.

To be fair to people with little education, Facebook has shown me that many people who can write properly cannot necessarily articulate their thoughts in a sensible fashion, or differentiate the noise made by their spontaneous opinion about everything from the signal they could create with their occasional elaborate ideas. But of course illiterate people usually bring terribly useless contributions to social networks, and should be the first to be silenced. But how? We just can't, because we don't want our internet to become the Chinese internet.

.

I have no idea what to do about this. Unless civilization collapses, social media and the internet are there to stay. Everyone's a media now, that's the way it is.

.

Professional media, on the other hand, are subject to a growing economic pressure due to the fact that their competition has extended to, well, everyone. So quality journalism, while still present, isn't much encouraged to grow either. And people trust the media and political institutions less and less anyway (when, ironically, the information age has made it more difficult for them to make up lies and get away with it then ever).

.

I've been giving it all a lot of thoughts the last few years, and IDK how to improve the overall situation. Educational systems, as they are, have clearly hit the limit of what they can achieve in developped countries: people can finish high school yet believe the Earth is flat, which says it all. Representative democracy may soon hit a wall in post-growth economies because people want more direct forms of democracy, while elites object that the masses are not ready for it. Both education and political institutions, as well as professional journalism, badly need to reinvent themselves if they want to be able to balance Joe Blow's rant on social media and these cohorts of BS "alternate" media. None of the three seems to know how to do it (if they want it at all).

.

Looking at the state of research today, it is very likely that within a few decades at most we'll know how to increase human cognitive capacities, either with brain implant, genetic modification or both. There is a vague hope that this could lead to a new cognitive revolution that would put an end to mass stupidity, but it's impossible to even imagine the effect such manipulations would have on humankind, so we don't know whether we should want this or not, and whether it would achieve the desired effect or not. But it's coming, and we are not ready because most people won't even accept the fact that it's coming.

.

In the meantime, IDK what to do because I don't see much hope in a any serious reform in either education, media or governance in Western countries. I find it a little anguishing sometimes. Not that people were smarter or that the world was better before but, as you say, until recently, to speak publicly you had to have something to say and a minimum of credentials, and certain dumb ideas were contained. At least there was a short moment in History -roughly between the end of WWII and the turn of the millenium- when we could possibly, if naively perhaps, hope that with a global raise of living standards, democracy and mass education, intelligence would prevail. Then the internet 2.0 happened, and it made us all guinea pigs in a wild experiment that has no precedent in human history. And clearly we are, collectively and individually, totally overwhelmed by it.

.

And I don't think anyone has a clue what to make of it all.

trickyjoe7777 said:

I don't see what is difficult here whichever side of the argument you take.

was Prince the best guitarist ever? No

the best pianist? No

the best drummer? No

the best producer? No

the best arranger? No

the best composer? Debatable

was he the only person we have seen that was even in an argument in being the best at all the above?absolutely.

has anyone come close to being as proficient in ALL of the above? No.

hes a terrible drummer

funkman88 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Free2BMe said: Prince just didn't want to work with other people, there was nothing arrogant about that. He. Just. Didn't. Want. To. Participate. But MJ, Quincy and their little fans are offended by it. MJ didn't have anything to do with prince declining. But claiming that prince was just too arrogant to participate is also kinda shitty.

Prince was only confident in working with people who are less talented than him(lisa and wendy) we are the world had people that could match him or exceed and ran away from it....kinda like how Lebron James never competed in dunk contest because he knew he couldnt compete with Jordans legacy in the event....

Nonsense:

Sheila E

Sonny

Mike Bland

Eric Leeds

Maceo........and a host of others.

Graycap23 said:

funkman88 said:

Prince was only confident in working with people who are less talented than him(lisa and wendy) we are the world had people that could match him or exceed and ran away from it....kinda like how Lebron James never competed in dunk contest because he knew he couldnt compete with Jordans legacy in the event....

Nonsense:

Sheila E

Sonny

Mike Bland

Eric Leeds

Maceo........and a host of others.

are any of them STEVIE WONDER LEVEL,QUINCY JONES LEVEL?/