herb4 said:

See...

Here's why I find a divide.

It's a funny enough play on words sort of joke, but the over acting kills it.

Prince and Jerome act like they just landed the All Time Zinger to end all Class Divide One Liners and double over like it's The Sickest Burn of All Time. It's a cute little scene but it goes on too long.

And speaking of class division, which seems to be what this film is trying to assert as an overall theme, it would work a LOT better if Prince and Tricky were shown to actually be, you know, poor and destitute. Struggling.

My guys are living in this crazy sweet chateau, dropping rose petals in bathtubs, driving a big white thunderbird, dressed to the nines, tossing money to street kids who mob him, made up like..well...Prince..., flashing cash, splashing cologne, and fucking turning tricks. It would have been more effective if Prince was shown as a hard luck street musician or club player, struggling to get himself noticed and collecting dollars in a guitar case while he played Sometimes it Snows in April or Alexa De Paris on a practice amp. The title track on a Casio. This would have ADDED MORE MUSIC for one thing, which the movie really needs and what we all want to see/hear. Give him an acoustic guitar and have Jerome banging buckets on New Position. Show us his struggle and his talent. Separate his motives from those of the Eeeeeeevil Father.

Show us Prince pulling off his (many) fashion statements by assembling things he found in thrift stores instead of all these custom made sequined outfits; cobbling something flashy together on a shoestring budget to crash that party. Have him WORRY about needing something to wear, OR, show us him doing the sequins himself.

He's not sympathetic here. He's just an arogant asshole that we're presupposed to like simply because he's PRINCE and We All Just Love Him So Much. Which I do/did.

If I were Mary's dad, I wouldn't want Christopher anywhere near my daughter either, tbh, because he's kind of a creep here and doesn't win our affection nor, most importantly, our sympathy.

If he were a down on his luck artist and musician, struggling to make his way but with real talent that was known to people on the street and who just couldn't catch a break, the whole "Love or $" and class envy theme would resonate a lot more. He was an asshole in PR too but we're at least SHOWN his struggle and the reasons WHY.

I totally agree with this.

People who enjoy the thing like what it is does and says by whatever degree. What needs to be told? We are watching 2 Miami brothers overseas using wit, whim, and tactile skills to roll through high society, not unscathed, as they are looked down upon and subsequently exploited in the process. There is no backing band for them--they didn't want a gang. Mary Sharon was just another mark and Christopher T. thought he would have his fun while he was at it and got caught up in the game while the heiress Mary S. explored her womanhood. That is the plot. There is the black and white film nostalgia anchored in the 80s. There are camp expressions and slick wadrobe. It's a humorous, light piece of work--a farce, it's been said--that is a fan vehicle, to boot, for the visually impressed and certain music fans. It is simple charming thing that makes a great film for us. Simple enough! I cosign if people want to label it as simple. The movie is really no big deal--Christoper Tracy dies at the end and you're not going to see him again, except in your dreams.

>

The critics, however, hang around to snuff UTCM enthusiasm on every such thread and throw shade on this small gem. Why is this? To sharpen a nebulous divide in taste? To shame appreciation of the thing we enjoy?

>

Wherever one lands on the good/bad divide on the UTCM discussion, I am impressed with the loving care by which folks devise their own hot-tub-time-machine dream takes for every scene; these yearning expositions of what would have made the film a better experience for them.

>

Alas, there is little way to improve the UTCM experience. Drinks, perhaps? I do feel that the conversations heighten the profile of the movie in some ironic way. I predict that the conversation on this Prince vehicle will persist.

onlyforaminute said:

All that and still not listening to anyone on why they may enjoy. Just telling people on the fansite they liked it because they are uber fans. I thoroughly enjoy such authority.

Germanegro said:

People who enjoy the thing like what it is does and says by whatever degree. What needs to be told? We are watching 2 Miami brothers overseas using wit, whim, and tactile skills to roll through high society, not unscathed, as they are looked down upon and subsequently exploited in the process. There is no backing band for them--they didn't want a gang. Mary Sharon was just another mark and Christopher T. thought he would have his fun while he was at it and got caught up in the game while the heiress Mary S. explored her womanhood. That is the plot. There is the black and white film nostalgia anchored in the 80s. There are camp expressions and slick wadrobe. It's a humorous, light piece of work--a farce, it's been said--that is a fan vehicle, to boot, for the visually impressed and certain music fans. It is simple charming thing that makes a great film for us. Simple enough! I cosign if people want to label it as simple. The movie is really no big deal--Christoper Tracy dies at the end and you're not going to see him again, except in your dreams.

>

The critics, however, hang around to snuff UTCM enthusiasm on every such thread and throw shade on this small gem. Why is this? To sharpen a nebulous divide in taste? To shame appreciation of the thing we enjoy?

>

Wherever one lands on the good/bad divide on the UTCM discussion, I am impressed with the loving care by which folks devise their own hot-tub-time-machine dream takes for every scene; these yearning expositions of what would have made the film a better experience for them.

>

Alas, there is little way to improve the UTCM experience. Drinks, perhaps? I do feel that the conversations heighten the profile of the movie in some ironic way. I predict that the conversation on this Prince vehicle will persist.

onlyforaminute said:

All that and still not listening to anyone on why they may enjoy. Just telling people on the fansite they liked it because they are uber fans. I thoroughly enjoy such authority.

I think an UTCM release with all the seen/unseen deleted scenes and such would make me happ-ier

But UTCM I just feel like steel represents Uptown/Paisley Park, "Prince" culture abounds for those of us who partied uptown and played in Paisley Park

I'm gonna go ahead and say that as much as I hate this movie, I would be really interested to see it in color. The stills I've seen bring a lushness to it that may have at least kept me from being bored watching it, similar to Purple Rain actually. Odd that the decision to make it B&W was aimed at capturing a "timeless" element when, had it been in color, that aspect of this thing would have been far more pronounced and tons more interesting.

I don't think any of Prince's films were "great" or even that good really, aside from Sign O the Times.

It goes:

SoTT (Prince doing what he does best: playing music)
PR (Right place/right time with an on screen presence and great musical performances)
UTCM (Vanity project disguised as a misguided Art House film)
GB (Yee, gods)

and then all those silly 3 Chains of Gold and Gangster Glam things he did. The Undertaker DVD was hard to watch too with the nausea inducing shaky cam and overlays. Alladin movie was amature hour. Rave 2000 I actually like more than most but was marred by the quick cuts. The VH1 special had some great Exoudus driven songs but the "story" dragged it down. Visually, and from a story telling standpoint, he never quite got it down IMO, but lord knows he tried and I give him credit for the effort. It wasn't any more or less embarassing than Elvis, Jagger, Bowie, Dylan, Eminem or Sting trying to be movie stars.

Prince had charisma and screen presence for days but couldn't tell an actual story for the life of him, at least without considerable help that he usually tended to refuse, for his own reasons or with a narrative that made any sense at all. I don't even think he was all that bad an actor either, as mucisicans go anyway, and may have shined in the right role and with a real director but we got what we got and apparently a lot people dig UTCM so I'm not gonna say they're stupid or anything for enjoying it.

But I'll be damned if I can find all that much to like about it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

onlyforaminute said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think an UTCM release with all the seen/unseen deleted scenes and such would make me happ-ier

But UTCM I just feel like steel represents Uptown/Paisley Park, "Prince" culture abounds for those of us who partied uptown and played in Paisley Park

To me PR is simplistic, it's stripped to the barest in persona to being practically every man (person) to some degree who ends up winning everyone's (in the movie) respect in the end by being humble. Yes it hit all the right markers without any clutter or anything problematic in the way. I've said it before UTCM has an actual personality, the overall story is simple, it's been done a thousand times, but the characters do have some dimensions and are problematic which is I guess where Prince needed help working out how to instantaneously make these flawed people likeable to a wider range of peoples biases.

It does have "personality" and is also interesting in a Train Wreck sort of way. Watching one mans ego run amok and utterly unchecked CAN be entertaining and interesting on occasion, I won't lie. I'm a connoisseur of Bad Movie Culture and dig shit like MST and the We Hate Movies podcast, so I'm not without a sense of humor with this sort of shit

But I just wish the "personailty" in question and that driving it wasn't "I am a huge asshole" and completely devoid of any sort of redemptive arc, which is what we got. Or at least what I got from it.

You want to see a vanity project with a musical bent to it, go check out Brain DePalma's Phantom of the Paradise, another box office bomb bit one steeped with skill and that's just riddled with camp, great song writing and artistry. It's a cult classic, which UTCM will neve be.

The movie is JUST for fans who ALREADY like Prince, yet I still despise it and I'll check my level of fandom against anyone's.

If I were trying to get someone to come around to Prince who found him off putting or didn't like his hits, I wouldn't start by showing them UTCM or even PR and CERTAINLY not GB. SoTT and Rave 2000 have done the trick a few times. So have the VH1 L4OA special, The UNdertaker or occasionally Alladin. I like to say, when people ask me about this film, that it has everything that people who dislike Prince REALLY dislike about Prince.

And yet you are absolutely obsessed with the movie. You've posted reams about it, enough to write your own screenplay, on many threads. How you dislike, hate, and yes even DESPISE the movie, and why why WHY. I'm curious, were you even born in 1986?

[Edited 6/23/20 1:19am]

onlyforaminute said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think an UTCM release with all the seen/unseen deleted scenes and such would make me happ-ier

But UTCM I just feel like steel represents Uptown/Paisley Park, "Prince" culture abounds for those of us who partied uptown and played in Paisley Park

To me PR is simplistic, it's stripped to the barest in persona to being practically every man (person) to some degree who ends up winning everyone's (in the movie) respect in the end by being humble. Yes it hit all the right markers without any clutter or anything problematic in the way. I've said it before UTCM has an actual personality, the overall story is simple, it's been done a thousand times, but the characters do have some dimensions and are problematic which is I guess where Prince needed help working out how to instantaneously make these flawed people likeable to a wider range of peoples biases.

Yes, the simplicity is what made it work, but it was all the Prince/Vanity 6/Time culture that filled and colored it that made it so wonderful.

dm3857 said:

Filmed in black in white purely for aesthetic reasons, he just wanted that black and white classic film noir vibe. My favorite scene is probably the bathtub scene with tricky

You clearly don't know what film noir is.

ian said:

It's a truly terrible movie, but Prince's charisma just about carries it (or at least, makes it watchable for hardcore Prince fans; I probably wouldn't inflict it upon anyone else). It was filmed in colour, but released in black and white.

The movie was set in the 20s, not the 40s. The 40s in France wasn't much fun.

No, it wasn't.

poppys said:

And yet you are absolutely obsessed with the movie. You've posted reams about it, enough to write your own screenplay, on many threads. How you dislike, hate, and yes even DESPISE the movie, and why why WHY. I'm curious, were you even born in 1986?

[Edited 6/23/20 1:19am]

Born in 1967. Graduated HS in 1984. If that somehow matters.

I find writing to be cathartic and theraputic plus, like I mentioned, have a weird itch I enjoy sratching relating to bad cinema and having to do with shitty movies that I get a chuckle out of on occasion. It's how I get my kicks.

Sorry if any of that bothers you or rubs you wrong for whatever reason. You can take up my points or ignore them as your mood suits you.

I thought I wrote some good stuff worthy of the discussion at hand, and made my issues with this film abundently clear that some seem to apprecaite but to each their own I suppose. My humble apologies for contrubuting to a thread and, AGAIN, like I said, It's OK to like a movie.

Does that answer "why"?

WHY??

I simply enjoy writing since you NEED TO KNOW.

And also discussing Prince's work, even if I don't care for the particular subject, and I'd rather do it here than on Facebook or whatever. And often I find it more fun to poke fun at his failures than just line up to adulate him since gushing about him is boring sometimes and I love 9/10 things he did.

My sincere apologies for my "reams" of not posting on my phone and actually writing about something.

[Edited 6/23/20 15:44pm]

herb4 said:

poppys said:

And yet you are absolutely obsessed with the movie. You've posted reams about it, enough to write your own screenplay, on many threads. How you dislike, hate, and yes even DESPISE the movie, and why why WHY. I'm curious, were you even born in 1986?

[Edited 6/23/20 1:19am]

Born in 1967. Graduated HS in 1984. If that somehow matters.

I find writing to be cathartic and theraputic plus, like I mentioned, have a weird itch I enjoy sratching relating to bad cinema and having to do with shitty movies that I get a chuckle out of on occasion. It's how I get my kicks.

Sorry if any of that bothers you or rubs you wrong for whatever reason. You can take up my points or ignore them as your mood suits you.

I thought I wrote some good stuff worthy of the discussion at hand, and made my issues with this film abundently clear that some seem to apprecaite but to each their own I suppose. My humble apologies for contrubuting to a thread and, AGAIN, like I said, It's OK to like a movie.

Does that answer "why"?

WHY??

I simply enjoy writing since you NEED TO KNOW.

And also discussing Prince's work, even if I don't care for the particular subject, and I'd rather do it here than on Facebook or whatever. And often I find it more fun to poke fun at his failures than just line up to adulate him since gushing about him is boring sometimes and I love 9/10 things he did.

My sincere apologies for my "reams" of not posting on my phone and actually writing about something.

Guess my sentence wasn't clear. You are the one that keeps telling us WHY you despise the movie, repeatedly. WHY you dislike it in great detail, any wardrobe accessory is suspect etc, etc. It's overkill. I stopped taking this rant seriously pages ago. You seem to love hating the movie. Carry on.

herb4 said:

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:

herb4 said:

Why I dislike UTCM

Guess my sentence wasn't clear. You are the one that keeps telling us WHY you despise the movie, repeatedly. WHY you dislike it in great detail, any wardrobe accessory is suspect etc, etc. It's overkill. I stopped taking this rant seriously pages ago. You seem to love hating the movie. Carry on.

It was clear.

Just not sure why it bugs you so much.

I do enjoy hating on bad movies (like I posted also). Not just this one.

You can skip/skim/ignore my posts if you want. Some people liked them.
...

Carry on.

SoulAlive said:

Purple Rain is believable and down to earth.UTCM is really just a pretentious vanity film.

PR also showed him with an abusive Dad and a bad family life that shaped and framed his more off putting tendencies and how that upbringing molded his view of and behaviour towards women. The redemptive arc was central to the character.

We're SHOWN why he is the way he is, what motivates him and influences his behavior.

Also, he played a ton of kickass musical numbers.

[Edited 6/25/20 14:28pm]

UTCM is so much more humorous than Purple Rain. Silly, creative characters! Christopher T. showed us all what a hard-working, enterprising fella' he was, playing at the piano lounge evenings through nights, all inbetween humpin' under the sheets with his undercover clientele. Those musicians have some kind of pull on the ladies. Tricky all the while running his games on the gambling addicts. They're an interesting, "exotic" pair of scamps, where you just want to see where their escapades lead them.

>

At any rate, to not like viewing those characters, says what?

>

herb4 said:

SoulAlive said:

Purple Rain is believable and down to earth.UTCM is really just a pretentious vanity film.

PR also showed him with an abusive Dad and a bad family life that shaped and framed his more off putting tendencies and how that upbringing molded his view of and behaviour towards women. The redemptive arc was central to the character.

We're SHOWN why he is the way he is, what motivates him and influences his behavior.

Also, he played a ton of kickass musical numbers.

[Edited 6/25/20 14:28pm]

herb4 said:

Under The Cherry Moon has a great soundtrack. Never liked the film, sorry to the people who love it don't kill me

IAdoreWeronika said:

Under The Cherry Moon has a great soundtrack. Never liked the film, sorry to the people who love it don't kill me

Don't apologize for being right.

"Right" on time with yer opinions...

herb4 said:

IAdoreWeronika said:

Under The Cherry Moon has a great soundtrack. Never liked the film, sorry to the people who love it don't kill me

Don't apologize for being right.

I'm about to go live on this guy's facebook streaming show to defend / explain Prince's first two movies.

6:30pm eastern time 6/30/20

He didn't like either, but really hated Under the Cherry Moon. It's under "Movie Blab" on facebook, if anyone wants to live comment or even call in to speak on the show.

Nothing serious, just in fun. It could all go south into complete chaos.

Movie Blab.

herb4 said:

alphastreet said:

I’m a bad fan, I haven’t seen it in full but love the wrecka stow scene so much

See...

Here's why I find a divide.

It's a funny enough play on words sort of joke, but the over acting kills it.

Prince and Jerome act like they just landed the All Time Zinger to end all Class Divide One Liners and double over like it's The Sickest Burn of All Time. It's a cute little scene but it goes on too long.

And speaking of class division, which seems to be what this film is trying to assert as an overall theme, it would work a LOT better if Prince and Tricky were shown to actually be, you know, poor and destitute. Struggling.

My guys are living in this crazy sweet chateau, dropping rose petals in bathtubs, driving a big white thunderbird, dressed to the nines, tossing money to street kids who mob him, made up like..well...Prince..., flashing cash, splashing cologne, and fucking turning tricks. It would have been more effective if Prince was shown as a hard luck street musician or club player, struggling to get himself noticed and collecting dollars in a guitar case while he played Sometimes it Snows in April or Alexa De Paris on a practice amp. The title track on a Casio. This would have ADDED MORE MUSIC for one thing, which the movie really needs and what we all want to see/hear. Give him an acoustic guitar and have Jerome banging buckets on New Position. Show us his struggle and his talent. Separate his motives from those of the Eeeeeeevil Father.

Show us Prince pulling off his (many) fashion statements by assembling things he found in thrift stores instead of all these custom made sequined outfits; cobbling something flashy together on a shoestring budget to crash that party. Have him WORRY about needing something to wear, OR, show us him doing the sequins himself.

He's not sympathetic here. He's just an arogant asshole that we're presupposed to like simply because he's PRINCE and We All Just Love Him So Much. Which I do/did.

If I were Mary's dad, I wouldn't want Christopher anywhere near my daughter either, tbh, because he's kind of a creep here and doesn't win our affection nor, most importantly, our sympathy.

If he were a down on his luck artist and musician, struggling to make his way but with real talent that was known to people on the street and who just couldn't catch a break, the whole "Love or $" and class envy theme would resonate a lot more. He was an asshole in PR too but we're at least SHOWN his struggle and the reasons WHY.

[Edited 6/18/20 15:01pm]

I love how you think. That could have been, in the hands of a capable filmmaker, remarkable. As I read it, I could immediately picture everything you were writing.

Miles Davis discusses Prince

Prince has a,

has James Brown

...his father took him 2 C James Brown,

when he was young, he got on stage and danced with him,

he has that and Jimi Hendrix and Marvin Gaye,

...

that's 4 things,

James brown Jimi Hendrix Marvin Gaye

and he combines all that all the time that's what he is,

His concept on the stage is like Charlie Chaplin, if you look at him you'll see, U know? you can tell

...

but Prince's concept is James Brown and Jimi Hendrix and Charlie Chaplin

and can't you mess with that ...

November 1985: Nice, France

p 94

chapter 7

Possessed: the Rise & Fall of Prince

Back in France, the shooting of Under the shooting of Under the Cherry Moon limped to a close

On the set in Nice, Prince seemed conflicted about Christopher Tracy, the character he had created for himself to play in the film. This charismatic, sexy, and somewhat snide piano player was hardly a sympathetic figure, and Prince's plan all along had been for Tracy to die at the end of the film, representing his own symbolic transcendence of these character flaws. But Warner Bros. preferring (as film studios invariably do) a happy ending, pshed him to conclude with Tracy reforming and heading off into the sunset with lover interest Mary (Scott-Thomas).

The alternative ending was shot, and publicist Howard Bloom, viewing a cut of the film where Tracy survives, found himself believing in the character's redemptive journey. "Warner Bros. insisted on him getting the girl at the end, and it really worked," Bloom remembered. "This little asshole character that was so hard to identify with, you bonded with by the end."

But Prince favored the original ending. In the final cut, Tracy died (the victim of an assassination) with the result, in Bloom's view, that any meaning in the film was also destroyed.