ChocolateBox3121 said:

iamafan said:

I think what is difficult is we are trying to understand Prince's death/actions from a rational point of view. However, that isn't really possible.

Just look from the perspective of depression. It sounds like he was depressed during his final days based on JH's commentary. Depression is a state that most cannot understand unless they have been through it. Then add immense pain to the mix, the fact he couldn't perform like he used to, his music wasn't nearly as popular as it once was, he didn't seem to have solid relationships (I don't call enablers solid. People seemed to be more 'on call' for him than anything as well, like JH), his childhood was a mess, his child died, he was in the grips of addiction and the public would most likely soon know about it.... that would all be hard to deal with for anyone. Yes he had money and fame, but what did that really matter?

So we try to figure it out... We wonder why he didn't get a hip replacement as that seems like an easy solution for most. Well he had some reason whether it was a bad experience the first time around or he didn't want to be off his illicit drugs to go under anesthesia or something else we don't know about.

We wonder if he had a serious illness as well. I have wondered why he didn't seem to have romantic relationships his final years (that I know of. I don't know exactly where he and JH stood. She knew what side of the bed he slept on, but he also had her stay at the motel when she came to town.). So I wondered if the AIDS story could be real. Or maybe the drugs were just such a big part of his life that there was no room for romantic relationships. (I know we don't know what went on his bedroom, but his private life used to get so much press in that regard, and that just stopped.) Prince was only 57, it wasn't like he was elderly.

Yet, I realize that there is no way to get into Prince's head at that point in time, yet the questions around his death still arise for me. I try to understand what cannot be understood. His persona and talent were bigger than life, and it is hard to absorb that someone like Prince could die so young and in a way that I never could have imagined, whether it was truly an OD or suicide.

For whatever reason, I am drawn to this whole discussion though. Maybe it is because I have never believed the story that was put out there by the coroner's office and everyone else, so I try to figure it out. But I can't really talk about this with people in 'real life' as they don't know nearly as much as I do as they haven't read all the files. And they would probably think I am crazy to have spent so much time pondering it all. So I appreciate this community, and I am glad we can all talk about this.

I am sorry for all this rambling. Thank you for reading.

[Edited 12/26/19 6:30am]

[Edited 12/26/19 6:31am]

[Edited 12/26/19 6:31am]

Prince(r.i.p.) toured with 3rdEYEGIRL & The Npg all the way up to 2015 merely months before he transitioned. He was only on the Piano & Microphone tour for three months prior to his passing.That IS NOT a man that couldn't perform like he use to.

He also had a minor hit that climbed the charts "1000 X's & O's" just barely months before he left this earth. NOT a man that's muziq wasn't as popular.

As far as relationships. Prince(r.i.p.) & JH was in a FULL FLEDGED relationship along with a SOLID relationship with the beautiful Tamron Hall who he talked to EVERYDAY & invited her to his last party merely a week before he transitioned.

HE WAS NOT some sad, tragic,depressed figure waiting to die. If that's how U and most here want to paint him it's a false narrative. I will continue to defend his legacy.

I don't want to fight with anyone, and I just don't think Judith and Prince had some deep, mutual relationship. She showed up when he told her to, and she left when he told her to. (Based on what I have read).

Regarding his popularity, I live in Detroit, and I never heard any of his new stuff on the radio. It is and was mostly 'old school jams' that play on the radio. Detroit was like a second home to him at one time, so it is a market that would be very likely to play his new music if it was popular. I am not saying he wasn't relevant, but he slowed down considerably before his death, and that had to be tough on him. Again, he was only 57 but he just looked so worn down to me.

And, I do believe that around the time of his death, he could not perform like he could even a year prior. He complained of hand pain (and others mentioned hip pain) and was taking a lot of meds. Whether it was pain or addiction, his ability to perform before he died was impacted by one or the other. (Or something else we are not aware of.)

Not to mention that JH's "testimony" painted Prince as a depressed individual unfortunately. How he died or lived does not have to hurt his music legacy. He was a man of incredible talent, and I also think his degree of musical genius may have tortured him somewhat- he always seemed compelled to create. Regardless, I will always admire him and enjoy what he created. To me, that is his legacy - not that he died from Fentanyl and may or may not have been depressed and/or sick.

PeggyO said:

I appreciate your support of Prince and want to make clear that I supported him as well.

I also feel that neither Judith nor Tamron knew about Prince's drug use nor possible health issues and were both blind-sided. Judith sounded somewhat traumatised during her questioning by the authorities and Tamron needed to take time off to process his death. This tells me he hid a significant part of himself from them. It's understandable but shows he was not in a fully-fledged relationship with either. Tamron declined the invitation to PP after Moline. This is not to place blame but to show the relationship was not that of someone in love.

I think they both loved him but were not in current intimate relationships with him.

Thank you. I agree with you about this, I don't believe there was anything romantic going on with Judith Hill and never even considered it re Tamron Hall. I'm not sure why the other poster thinks people are trying to harm his legacy in discussion here, but that person is wrong about that in my opinion.

"I'm not sure why the other poster thinks people are trying to harm his legacy in discussion here, but that person is wrong about that in my opinion.the other poster"

Please address me by my name CHOCOLATE bOX.....

iamafan said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Prince(r.i.p.) toured with 3rdEYEGIRL & The Npg all the way up to 2015 merely months before he transitioned. He was only on the Piano & Microphone tour for three months prior to his passing.That IS NOT a man that couldn't perform like he use to.

He also had a minor hit that climbed the charts "1000 X's & O's" just barely months before he left this earth. NOT a man that's muziq wasn't as popular.

As far as relationships. Prince(r.i.p.) & JH was in a FULL FLEDGED relationship along with a SOLID relationship with the beautiful Tamron Hall who he talked to EVERYDAY & invited her to his last party merely a week before he transitioned.

HE WAS NOT some sad, tragic,depressed figure waiting to die. If that's how U and most here want to paint him it's a false narrative. I will continue to defend his legacy.

I don't want to fight with anyone, and I just don't think Judith and Prince had some deep, mutual relationship. She showed up when he told her to, and she left when he told her to. (Based on what I have read).

Regarding his popularity, I live in Detroit, and I never heard any of his new stuff on the radio. It is and was mostly 'old school jams' that play on the radio. Detroit was like a second home to him at one time, so it is a market that would be very likely to play his new music if it was popular. I am not saying he wasn't relevant, but he slowed down considerably before his death, and that had to be tough on him. Again, he was only 57 but he just looked so worn down to me.

And, I do believe that around the time of his death, he could not perform like he could even a year prior. He complained of hand pain (and others mentioned hip pain) and was taking a lot of meds. Whether it was pain or addiction, his ability to perform before he died was impacted by one or the other. (Or something else we are not aware of.)

Not to mention that JH's "testimony" painted Prince as a depressed individual unfortunately. How he died or lived does not have to hurt his music legacy. He was a man of incredible talent, and I also think his degree of musical genius may have tortured him somewhat- he always seemed compelled to create. Regardless, I will always admire him and enjoy what he created. To me, that is his legacy - not that he died from Fentanyl and may or may not have been depressed and/or sick.

One quick note:

There's documented concern about level of opiate use, concern that in time frame goes back many years.

NOT to say you were in any way denying this, but just noting that some people with substance use concerns perform amazingly.

Still, substance use conditions can create and/or contribute to additional health issues, and such additional health issues can become more severe over time.

[Edited 12/26/19 11:08am]

rednblue said:

iamafan said:

I don't want to fight with anyone, and I just don't think Judith and Prince had some deep, mutual relationship. She showed up when he told her to, and she left when he told her to. (Based on what I have read).

Regarding his popularity, I live in Detroit, and I never heard any of his new stuff on the radio. It is and was mostly 'old school jams' that play on the radio. Detroit was like a second home to him at one time, so it is a market that would be very likely to play his new music if it was popular. I am not saying he wasn't relevant, but he slowed down considerably before his death, and that had to be tough on him. Again, he was only 57 but he just looked so worn down to me.

And, I do believe that around the time of his death, he could not perform like he could even a year prior. He complained of hand pain (and others mentioned hip pain) and was taking a lot of meds. Whether it was pain or addiction, his ability to perform before he died was impacted by one or the other. (Or something else we are not aware of.)

Not to mention that JH's "testimony" painted Prince as a depressed individual unfortunately. How he died or lived does not have to hurt his music legacy. He was a man of incredible talent, and I also think his degree of musical genius may have tortured him somewhat- he always seemed compelled to create. Regardless, I will always admire him and enjoy what he created. To me, that is his legacy - not that he died from Fentanyl and may or may not have been depressed and/or sick.

One quick note:

There's documented concern about level of opiate use, concern that in time frame goes back many years.

NOT to say you were in any way denying this, but just noting that some people with substance use concerns perform amazingly.

Still, substance use conditions can create and/or contribute to additional health issues, and such additional health issues can become more severe over time.

[Edited 12/26/19 11:08am]

Yes, there were concerns that go way back re: substance use.

It is not uncommon for performers to use substances/alcohol to augment a performance, curate a certain mood, assist with jitters etc.

iamafan said:

rednblue said:

123

[Edited 12/26/19 19:31pm]

chrisslope9 said:

When the government wants you out of the way , they get you out of the way. Prince had Baltomre chanting 'No Justice , Without Peace.' Prince was funelling money to teach poor black children how to code. He was rebuilding schools in inner city's and funding music programs. Prince was doing interviews on shows like Tavis Smiley talking about Chem-Trails and hanging aound with people like Dick Gregory. He was writing songs like Dreamer and Colonized Mind. When he was drifting through the 90's it didn't matter; His reach was small. In his later years he gained American Treasure/Folk Hero status in the eye of the public. I often think the powers that be decided he had to go. Call me crazy. Ban me. Whatever. I'll repsond by saying look at what they did to John Lennon, JFK, RFK, MLK, the 27 Club, and many others who might sway the country into a direction that doesn't jibe with a far right agenda. They stopped using bullets because they realized they were creating martyrs. These days they either assisante your charecter or you OD or die of suicide . Absolutely not out of the realm of possibility that he was eliminated.

BS.

If you want to bring the government and politics into it, the Org. has a politics topic, put it there.

Crazy lunatics killed Lennon, etc. etc. etc.

More fan fiction.

We'll never relly know.

For someone to posit that Prince surrounded himself with yes men and underlings who played by his rules or who were otherwise shown the door with some with some quickness...

That doesn't seem like LIES to me.

From the moment he made it big, it was pretty clear who was in charge. Shit, it was prett clear even before that. I guess posting a glittery jpeg constitutes contributing to the discussion somehow.

littlemissG said:

iamafan said:

I have a hard time believing he panicked and dressed himself. Heck maybe he put his clothes on backward at the doctors office (if he had to wear a gown). The effect of those pills seemed pretty quick on the plane. One minute he was eating and talking, the next he was unconscious.

My theory is he was found naked by Kirk or someone else. Knowing the police would take photos they performed one last favor for their friend and employer by dressing Prince to keep his naked pictures off the Internet. I also believe if decided he was at the end and it was a suicide he would had his affairs in order with very specific instructions, but not a suicide note. A known suicide would contradict the positive messages he promoted.

Interesting theory, but Princes neck was swabbed, wouldn't DNA have been found? And why leave his body in the elevator, not his bed? Prince had to be disoriented since a pill was found in the sheets.

the investigation was dropped. To be fair, we don't know if they checked financial data. There was a martini like glass in the studio that was not tested and later tossed in the trash. They tested other bottles but ignored that. And pills were only tested by appearance and no information on the pill compositions have been released that I am aware of.

lastly, investigators should have spoken to Chaka Khan. She may have information si ce she had a dependency to fentanyl. Perhaps they had the same supplier?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"I'm not sure why the other poster thinks people are trying to harm his legacy in discussion here, but that person is wrong about that in my opinion.the other poster"

Please address me by my name CHOCOLATE bOX.....

Well Chocolate Box.....if I had been speaking directly to you, I'd have addressed you by your name. But I was not addressing you and in the context of speaking to another poster, there was no need whatsoever to bring your name up.

PennyPurple said:

chrisslope9 said:

When the government wants you out of the way , they get you out of the way. Prince had Baltomre chanting 'No Justice , Without Peace.' Prince was funelling money to teach poor black children how to code. He was rebuilding schools in inner city's and funding music programs. Prince was doing interviews on shows like Tavis Smiley talking about Chem-Trails and hanging aound with people like Dick Gregory. He was writing songs like Dreamer and Colonized Mind. When he was drifting through the 90's it didn't matter; His reach was small. In his later years he gained American Treasure/Folk Hero status in the eye of the public. I often think the powers that be decided he had to go. Call me crazy. Ban me. Whatever. I'll repsond by saying look at what they did to John Lennon, JFK, RFK, MLK, the 27 Club, and many others who might sway the country into a direction that doesn't jibe with a far right agenda. They stopped using bullets because they realized they were creating martyrs. These days they either assisante your charecter or you OD or die of suicide . Absolutely not out of the realm of possibility that he was eliminated.

BS.

If you want to bring the government and politics into it, the Org. has a politics topic, put it there.

Crazy lunatics killed Lennon, etc. etc. etc.

More fan fiction.

That's a whole lot of crazy lunatics. How dumb does the goverment think American's are ? Oh wait ..... But you're right, I will move the post over.

[Edited 12/26/19 19:32pm]

[Edited 12/26/19 19:35pm]

[Edited 12/26/19 19:36pm]

littlemissG said:

LoveGalore said:

littlemissG said:

My theory is he was found naked by Kirk or someone else. Knowing the police would take photos they performed one last favor for their friend and employer by dressing Prince to keep his naked pictures off the Internet. I also believe if decided he was at the end and it was a suicide he would had his affairs in order with very specific instructions, but not a suicide note. A known suicide would contradict the positive messages he promoted.

Really? You think Prince was just rolling around naked in PP? I do not buy that for a moment. Why also would they put underwear on him then? If the need was just to clothe him, you don't need to put full on layers. That doesn't match up with Kirk's phone records or the interviews with anyone present (and Kornfeld would have no reason to lie about that). Further, he was laying in a slightly contorted position according to Kornfeld. It was the fire chief who dragged him from the elevator on the rug to administer the CPR before he was officially pronounced dead. Prince had zero interest, all told, in arranging anything for after he died. When he was informed that there would be tax consequences and other issues were he not to provide for this scenario, he rolled his eyes and walked away from the person. Prince really did not give a crap about that stuff because he would be gone and he had no true heirs. He knew what would happen and why would that matter? He ain't here.

Prince didn't look contorted to me, he looked like he would look sleeping in a bed. That is why I think he was moved to the elevator for some unknown reason. And, if they put underwear on him, it would look like Prince died in his clothes and nobody tampered with the body or the scene.

I think a lot went on that night/morning that we don't know about. I am not saying conspiracy theories, but I think Kirk and the assistant that I can't remember her name were pretty busy.

I don't think Kornfeld lied either, and I agree that Prince didn't care about his affairs being in order. Why would he when he seemed on-and-off estranged from different members of his family throughout the years? Could have ever been a 'screw you, you deal with this mess', who knows.

darlingnikkkki said:

If he was indeed HIV positive and was taking his meds regularly up until he had the crazy idea that God would heal him without the meds, it makes me wonder if someone from the JW encouraged him to stop taking his meds. I don’t want to point fingers but would Prince still be alive if he was not a part of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Only Scientologist(whom temple I was lured to) believe in healing of the mind with dianetics & no meds. But Prince(r.i.p.) WAS NOT HIV POSITIVE!!!!

LoveGalore said:

littlemissG said:

My theory is he was found naked by Kirk or someone else. Knowing the police would take photos they performed one last favor for their friend and employer by dressing Prince to keep his naked pictures off the Internet. I also believe if decided he was at the end and it was a suicide he would had his affairs in order with very specific instructions, but not a suicide note. A known suicide would contradict the positive messages he promoted.

Really? You think Prince was just rolling around naked in PP? I do not buy that for a moment. Why also would they put underwear on him then? If the need was just to clothe him, you don't need to put full on layers. That doesn't match up with Kirk's phone records or the interviews with anyone present (and Kornfeld would have no reason to lie about that). Further, he was laying in a slightly contorted position according to Kornfeld. It was the fire chief who dragged him from the elevator on the rug to administer the CPR before he was officially pronounced dead. Prince had zero interest, all told, in arranging anything for after he died. When he was informed that there would be tax consequences and other issues were he not to provide for this scenario, he rolled his eyes and walked away from the person. Prince really did not give a crap about that stuff because he would be gone and he had no true heirs. He knew what would happen and why would that matter? He ain't here.

the clothes on backwards thing never struck me as that strange. When you take clothes off a lot of times they go inside out. Pretty much every time i take off jeans i have to pull the legs back through afterwards bc they're inside out. so most likely he just threw his clothes off and left them there inside out, and then put them back on without fixing it. I do that with pajamas all the time if i get up in the middle of the night.

Whatever people's thoughts on P's possible mindset around the time of Atlanta, I'd think most would agree that over the course of life, there was undue suffering related to opiates.

P, undoubtedly, could make himself a hard person to help.

Anyone in such situations is also up against consequences (financial/legal/compromised understanding of and access to treatment according to standard of care, etc., etc.) of stigma.

One example: "If someone were providing care on national TV for years that was as far away from what experts recommend for any other condition, it wouldn’t take a journalist to bring the misleading claims to the experts for debunking, especially after someone dies. But addiction still isn’t really seen as a disease where research evidence should determine the best treatment. Instead, it’s a matter of 'philosophy' and faith. You can say, 'Methadone steals your soul,' and still get a national TV show and be quoted every time a celebrity relapses—and no one even reports until after a death that all of the major bodies on addiction medicine disagree."

https://www.thefix.com/co...uicide8102

iamafan said:

dm3857 said:

PeggyO said:

andrewm7 said:

I think this thread needs to exist. As far as I know (through reading up various sites) Prince died of a Fentanyl overdose.Whether this was intentional or accidental we will likely never know. It has been established that Prince regularly used opiate based pain killers in the months and years leading up to his death, and was seeking treatment with an addiction specialist.

The pill or pills that likely killed him were bootleg, illegally manufactured Norco tablets. How he came to obtain these pills is a matter of conjecture. Whether he knew that these tablets contained Fentanyl or not is unknown.

He left nothing that could be termed a "suicide note" although there is evidence that a cleanup of some kind was attempted and files were erased.What these files were, we do not know. His body was moved prior to police arrival, possibly in an attempt at resuscitation.

If there is anything that I am failing to understand or express properly please set me straight.

The counterfeit pills were made to resemble Vicodin, (a similar strength opiate).

His body was moved from the elevator to attempt resuscitation.

He may not have have known about the addiction specialist

There is quite a bit of conjecture about the following:

-how he came to have these pills

-whether he knew they contained Fentanyl

-whether his death was accidental or a suicide.

-whether he had an underlying, serious illness or was his weight loss and gen'l poor appearance the result of an end-stage addictive process.

[Edited 12/20/19 23:58pm]

I would add that at the time of his death, he was shaken by the death of Vanity.

LoveGalore said:

iamafan said:

Prince didn't look contorted to me, he looked like he would look sleeping in a bed. That is why I think he was moved to the elevator for some unknown reason. And, if they put underwear on him, it would look like Prince died in his clothes and nobody tampered with the body or the scene.

I think a lot went on that night/morning that we don't know about. I am not saying conspiracy theories, but I think Kirk and the assistant that I can't remember her name were pretty busy.

I don't think Kornfeld lied either, and I agree that Prince didn't care about his affairs being in order. Why would he when he seemed on-and-off estranged from different members of his family throughout the years? Could have ever been a 'screw you, you deal with this mess', who knows.

You didn't see him in the elevator, though. That's where he was when they found him and when Kornfeld noted he looked slightly contorted. The fire chief is who moved him and it was only his arm that stayed rigid in it's position. The photos and video of his body laying outside the elevator were taken by the police - which is after he was moved. When his body was taken away, they moved the rug back into the elevator. So, we don't know what he looked like in the elevator at all - we only have Kornfeld's description of it.

Oh I figured everything was somewhat 'fixed'. (Gosh that sounds morbid, sorry). I guess I also figured he was in bed because I'm guessing that amount of fentanyl would act fast. It looks like he took them in bed and so I imagine that is where he would have actually been found.

So he:

was a junkie

was murdered

committed suicide

was HIV positive

had AIDS

had liver disease

was anemic

had a blood disease

is there anything he didn't have at this point?

darlingnikkkki said:

If he was indeed HIV positive and was taking his meds regularly up until he had the crazy idea that God would heal him without the meds, it makes me wonder if someone from the JW encouraged him to stop taking his meds. I don’t want to point fingers but would Prince still be alive if he was not a part of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

thats crazy..he joined them because of his addiction ....thats what they r known for

jfenster said:

darlingnikkkki said:

If he was indeed HIV positive and was taking his meds regularly up until he had the crazy idea that God would heal him without the meds, it makes me wonder if someone from the JW encouraged him to stop taking his meds. I don’t want to point fingers but would Prince still be alive if he was not a part of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

thats crazy..he joined them because of his addiction ....thats what they r known for

Huh? He didn't join the JW's because of an addiction.....

darlingnikkkki said:

If he was indeed HIV positive and was taking his meds regularly up until he had the crazy idea that God would heal him without the meds, it makes me wonder if someone from the JW encouraged him to stop taking his meds. I don’t want to point fingers but would Prince still be alive if he was not a part of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I've also wondered about that.