I really, really, really get tired of W & L telling everyone how much they influenced Prince. If they're so fucking great where are all there classic songs & Albums without him??! They need to shut up already.

BalladofPeterParker said:

I really, really, really get tired of W & L telling everyone how much they influenced Prince. If they're so fucking great where are all there classic songs & Albums without him??! They need to shut up already.

Their first three albums are great. Fruit At The Bottom and Eroica are gems.

SquirrelMeat said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

I really, really, really get tired of W & L telling everyone how much they influenced Prince. If they're so fucking great where are all there classic songs & Albums without him??! They need to shut up already.

Their first three albums are great. Fruit At The Bottom and Eroica are gems.

Hi SM,

I own those albums and I happily admit they are talented musicians BUT they don't have one classic non Prince related song, I do really like "This is the Life" and their work with Seal but true classic work?? Hell no.

Sorry if I'm coming off a little strong but Wendy has been grating on my nerves for some time now. She really seems to need to tell everyone what she introduced the greatest musician of his generation to.

BalladofPeterParker said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Their first three albums are great. Fruit At The Bottom and Eroica are gems.

Hi SM,

I own those albums and I happily admit they are talented musicians BUT they don't have one classic non Prince related song, I do really like "This is the Life" and their work with Seal but true classic work?? Hell no.

Sorry if I'm coming off a little strong but Wendy has been grating on my nerves for some time now. She really seems to need to tell everyone what she introduced the greatest musician of his generation to.

Hi! Each to their own. I think Waterfall, This is The Life, Are U My Baby, Satisfaction, I Think It was December, Fruit At The Bottom, Rainbow Lake, Stung Out, Don't Try To Tell Me and Staring at the Sun where as good as half the material Prince was producing at the time.

If I Look at my favourite W&L song, 'Reaching One' from 1998 and compare it to New Power Soul, it spanks the majority.

I know Wendy can go on about their 'influence' a bit too much, but it's clear they did. I've never heard Prince write an 'In This Bed Eye Scream' about Dr Fink, Tony M, Miko Weaver or any other previous band members. I think that speeaks volumes.

jtfolden said:

SquirrelMeat said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Hi SM,

I own those albums and I happily admit they are talented musicians BUT they don't have one classic non Prince related song, I do really like "This is the Life" and their work with Seal but true classic work?? Hell no.

Sorry if I'm coming off a little strong but Wendy has been grating on my nerves for some time now. She really seems to need to tell everyone what she introduced the greatest musician of his generation to.

Hi! Each to their own. I think Waterfall, This is The Life, Are U My Baby, Satisfaction, I Think It was December, Fruit At The Bottom, Rainbow Lake, Stung Out, Don't Try To Tell Me and Staring at the Sun where as good as half the material Prince was producing at the time.

If I Look at my favourite W&L song, 'Reaching One' from 1998 and compare it to New Power Soul, it spanks the majority.

I know Wendy can go on about their 'influence' a bit too much, but it's clear they did. I've never heard Prince write an 'In This Bed Eye Scream' about Dr Fink, Tony M, Miko Weaver or any other previous band members. I think that speeaks volumes.

Fair enough S.M. There's no question they played a pivotal role during a portion of P's career. They have every right to be proud. I appreciate your willingness to admit Wendy loves to pat her self on the back a bit much since Prince left us. I disagree about the tunes you mentioned being on par with the stuff Prince was doing simultaneously but then again that's just our differing opinions.

Have a great evening!

Hamad said:

lastdecember said:

But the reality is, that the era they were involved in is the one Prince is most looked on for, if Morris Hayes said tomorrow he wrote “Damn U” who would care?

Hence the highlighted part from the initial post, they were the most popular brand, but there were bands - and band members - who stayed longer than them and we were just as important to him from what he expressed in the past. Who would care? He did. Fans’ favouritism is the reason why some of us are selective at what is “factual” what’s not, which why I ended my initial post by saying everything else is subjective after the highlighted remark. Did W&L stay with him longer than Morris? I might care, you might not care, but neither here nor there because he did that’s the bottom line to me as far as W&L’s concerned.
[Edited 11/28/19 6:15am]

lastdecember said:

Hamad said:

Hence the highlighted part from the initial post, they were the most popular brand, but there were bands - and band members - who stayed longer than them and we were just as important to him from what he expressed in the past. Who would care? He did. Fans’ favouritism is the reason why some of us are selective at what is “factual” what’s not, which why I ended my initial post by saying everything else is subjective after the highlighted remark. Did W&L stay with him longer than Morris? I might care, you might not care, but neither here nor there because he did that’s the bottom line to me as far as W&L’s concerned.
[Edited 11/28/19 6:15am]

But again the difference is despite US knowing Morris Hayes is his longest companion in music and bands, when Prince died where did the spotlight fall? The revolution toured and then the NPG toured who got the media attention? Every band member he played with he got something from, I mean he loved 3rd eye girl probably more than anything. Prince eras are all subjective people hate one time period and some think it was genius, I think the RAVe album was really pretty bad and some think it’s great, I think Chaos and disorder is genius and others call it throwaway filler. So this all is just everyone’s opinion. Like on another thread people are debating how he died, it doesn’t really matter, the end result won’t change, whether it was mislabeled pills are just flat out addiction (which it was) it really doesn’t change reality.

Wendy and Lisa's solo stuff is beyond excellent, but it's not really pop music, it's usually relatively complex and muted wih the odd catchy chorus. Whatshisface on here who hates them, pauldvug or whatever, accuses them of being pretentious indie musicians and in fairness to him, he's not far off really. Their stuff is kind of indie (although it's hardly Josef K) in that the best indie music deals in complicated emotions and not really big, sparkly, immediate songs. Wendy & Lisa's music takes a little bit of adjustment on the listener and it's not for everyone, whereas songs like Kiss and I Wanna Be Your Lover are for everyone.


As for the rest, who cares, there's always the people on here who call Purple Rain a "standard 80's album" and think Graffiti Bridge is a good film.

[Edited 11/29/19 2:00am]

BalladofPeterParker said:

I really, really, really get tired of W & L telling everyone how much they influenced Prince. If they're so fucking great where are all there classic songs & Albums without him??! They need to shut up already.

yeah yeah yeah

the article is so much more

decrease the vitrol

that isn't even what the article is about

jaawwnn said:

Wendy and Lisa's solo stuff is beyond excellent, but it's not really pop music, it's usually relatively complex and muted wih the odd catchy chorus. Whatshisface on here who hates them, pauldvug or whatever, accuses them of being pretentious indie musicians and in fairness to him, he's not far off really. Their stuff is kind of indie (although it's hardly Josef K) in that the best indie music deals in complicated emotions and not really big, sparkly, immediate songs. Wendy & Lisa's music takes a little bit of adjustment on the listener and it's not for everyone, whereas songs like Kiss and I Wanna Be Your Lover are for everyone.


As for the rest, who cares, there's always the people on here who call Purple Rain a "standard 80's album" and think Graffiti Bridge is a good film.

[Edited 11/29/19 2:00am]

Everything about this post is great 'review' quality

CoolMF said:

From the interview:

*

Wendy: "...All of the musicians that Prince hired over the years, including me, he can do all of their parts. The only musician he ever hired that he can't mimic was Lisa..."

*

Can someone clarify that statement for me and/or give an example of a "Lisa part" that he couldn't imitate?

I think it had more to do with how she played, that essence thing, that made Prince fall in love with her playing when she first sat down at his piano for audition

.

I remember when Miles Davis came to my house. As he was passing by my piano, he stopped and put his hands down on the keys and played these eight chords, one after the other. It was so beautiful; he sounded like Bill Evans or Lisa [Coleman], who also had this way of playing chords that were so perfect. Lisa was never an explosive keyboard player, but she was a master of color in her harmonies; I could sing off of what she had with straight soul. Prince 1997

For the bitchen people Eh

.

For those that love talking about 'boots' I get so "oooh Imma tell mama" when people from the Prince camp(even when Prince did it) talk about unreleased Prince music lol

June 7. 1985
Prom Center"St Poul
27th Birthday Concert

3. Sometimes It snows In April only Prince, Wendy Melvoin, Lisa Coleman, Sheila E.

.

After a two minute Sheila E. drum solo, the band slows things down for the public premiere of "Sometimes It Snows In April". This song would not see release for almost another year, on the "Parade" album in late March, 1986. It's obvious the song is a work in progress at this point as Prince sings the first two lines of the song, then it becomes an instrumental performance save the chorus which the band has worked out, full lyrics and all. It's a fascinating look at a song in its skeletal form. Prince tells the crowd 'y'all wanna get a drink or something, it's cool', probably aware of the funk explosion they were about to lay on them the rest of the evening.

Jesse died soon after a long fought civil war

soon after I wiped his last tear

.

Sometims it snows in April

Sometimes I feel so bad

Sometimes I wish that life was never ending

And all good things they say never last

.

sing the chorus again

.

Sometims it snows in April

Sometimes I feel so bad

Sometimes I wish that life was never ending

And all good things they say never last

.

Bobby Z, U in the house?

BrownMark, U here?

chorus

Sometims it snows in April

Sometimes I feel so bad

Sometimes I wish that life was never ending

And all good things they say never last

And all good things they say never last

.

.

.

.

Wendy: "We were at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles, Prince, me and Lisa, just the three of us, and we were all in quiet moods. I picked up an acoustic and Lisa was playing piano and we just started coming up with a motif, a progression. Prince is very quick with words, so it kind of just happened in a couple of hours. He'd written the whole lyric and sung the whole song. It came very fast."

Lisa: "He pushed for that dissonant chord when he sings 'Sometimes I wish'. He called it the 'Lisa chord' but it was actually his harmony that made it dissonant. It's beautiful the way it resolves."

Wendy: "It was a nice night. I remember being very, very calm. There was no drama of any kind."

There's a real fragility to that song.

Wendy: "There were a few around that time. Power Fantastic had a lot of tenderness, and so did The Tears In Your Eyes. They all had that same kind of gentle quietness."

Tell me more about the 'Lisa chord'.

Wendy: "I'll tell you one thing about Lisa: All of the musicians that Prince hired over the years, including me, he can do all of their parts. The only musician he ever hired that he can't mimic was Lisa. She became invaluable to him and I believe, truly, that Lisa was his ultimate musical muse. I've always felt that way and I stick to my guns on that one."

Lisa: "Wow."

.

.

Basic tracking took place on April 21st 1985 @ Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California (the day after Old Friends 4 Sale and Others Here With Us ...

The recording features only Prince, Lisa Coleman(on piano) and Wendy Melvoin(on guitar). Clare Fischer arranged and recorded orchestration for the song at some point in mid-late 1985 at Monterey Sound Studios in Glendale, California, but Prince preferred the track without orchestration, and chose to use the track without orchestration for the final release. The version with Fischer orchestration was used in the movie Under The Cherry Moon. 1 minute and 18 seconds can be heard at the end of the film.

-PrinceVault

LoveGalore said:

jtfolden said:

The Wendy & Lisa conection to creating the music for SISIA (and Mountains) is NOT new. Way back in a 1986 issue of Rolling Stone, it was written that they were credited for co-writing those two tracks. Indeed, those two tracks sound very much like W&L's music at the time (See "This Is The Life" and "Waterfall" for example).

"The group’s latest album, Parade: Music from ‘Under the Cherry Moon,’ contains two songs – “Sometimes It Snows in April” and “Mountains” — co-written by Lisa and Wendy."

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/lisa-coleman-and-wendy-melvoin-ladies-in-waiting-48039/

[Edited 11/28/19 15:19pm]

Yeah, did you know Vanity 6 wrote Nasty Girl?

That's quaint but not remotely the same thing in this case.

jtfolden said:

TheFman said:

I remember that day in/around 1986 when I first heard All My Dreams, as it was yesterday.

My exact thoughts:

from the first note: brilliant!

After 10 seconds: a fucking masterpiece!!

And then came the signing:

I'll see you tonight in all my dreams --> Out of this world!!
and then, second line:
All my dreams --> and here's where it broke. Instead of signing a new full line, we got this 'stop' immediately on the second line, it broke the fluency of the song. As I was listening, I was so into this song that I so expected a different second line, I had it completely made up in my head already, and then i heard the unexpected and was deeply dissapointed at that moment.

It is still a masterpiece, between his 10 best pieces probably; but it could have been even higher.

I agree,the second part of the song is....strange it took me years to really appreciate it.

Hamad said:

lastdecember said:

But again the difference is despite US knowing Morris Hayes is his longest companion in music and bands, when Prince died where did the spotlight fall? The revolution toured and then the NPG toured who got the media attention? Every band member he played with he got something from, I mean he loved 3rd eye girl probably more than anything. Prince eras are all subjective people hate one time period and some think it was genius, I think the RAVe album was really pretty bad and some think it’s great, I think Chaos and disorder is genius and others call it throwaway filler. So this all is just everyone’s opinion. Like on another thread people are debating how he died, it doesn’t really matter, the end result won’t change, whether it was mislabeled pills are just flat out addiction (which it was) it really doesn’t change reality.

Fair to say we’re going in circles at this point, both of us agree that the Revolutions are his most popular/mainstream group, you & I established that already. My point is, it’s not which band configuration WE personally prefer/or who’s popular, it’s who he favoured; and the answer is it’s always his last band. Therefore, I’m not about to take what Wendy decides to push as a narrative like she was the “gatekeeper” just because she won the popularity contest, and I certainly don’t care what she thinks about the other bands, like she passive aggressively remarked in the past. At the end of the day, they ALL were hired by him, they ALL built the music as he orchestrated it and they ALL more or less helped influence the music. Any importance at the result of that lay on him & music, that’s where it ends. Now if you ask me who am I gonna listen to as far as telling the story? The person who stayed the longer. Even if I prefer her as a musician (which again, is not important in this context).

There have been so many accounts of what happened especially in the early days, my main thing I was saying is that no one really seems to care about what anyone is saying about Prince music after a certain point even with fans it seems. All of the issues with said things seem to always stem from Jill Jones, Wendy primarily since Lisa rarely speaks it seems, interesting how no one ever called her out on her comment about the Piano and Mic tour he did, her comment was something to the fact "that seemed like he had given up", no one really calls out Morris Day who has had fun comments but still I am sure true , about Prince being an ass to him, etc...As for Morris Hayes I said for years about his time with Prince and how he was the most respected to me, I gained more respect for the Revolution as players after he died and seeing them play, because really till then the word was, Prince did it all and they really were more like traveling musicians with little chops. I always respected NPG especially the version in the era that was Prince's toughest in terms of the press and mainstream, because there was a lot going on that they had to go through with him, I mean the whole EXODUS and wearing a mask, changing his name, Morris mainly always had his back. But they are different era's Morris is not going to be able to talk on things pre 1990 for the most part nor would I expect an opinion or behind the scenes talk from Wendy after she was gone. Things I do however know was that around 2012 according to Morris he withdrew from Prince, he had the 3rd eye girl thing and was going in a new direction.

lastdecember said:

mediumdry said:

I'm not reading any "fiction" in those quotes. I also don't understand why there's so much hatred for Wendy and Lisa on this forum. They were quite important to Prince at one point and later they were not..

Yeah. Wendy and Lisa are super cool. There's nothing sketchy about that interview.

LoveGalore said:

lastdecember said:

There have been so many accounts of what happened especially in the early days, my main thing I was saying is that no one really seems to care about what anyone is saying about Prince music after a certain point even with fans it seems. All of the issues with said things seem to always stem from Jill Jones, Wendy primarily since Lisa rarely speaks it seems, interesting how no one ever called her out on her comment about the Piano and Mic tour he did, her comment was something to the fact "that seemed like he had given up", no one really calls out Morris Day who has had fun comments but still I am sure true , about Prince being an ass to him, etc...As for Morris Hayes I said for years about his time with Prince and how he was the most respected to me, I gained more respect for the Revolution as players after he died and seeing them play, because really till then the word was, Prince did it all and they really were more like traveling musicians with little chops. I always respected NPG especially the version in the era that was Prince's toughest in terms of the press and mainstream, because there was a lot going on that they had to go through with him, I mean the whole EXODUS and wearing a mask, changing his name, Morris mainly always had his back. But they are different era's Morris is not going to be able to talk on things pre 1990 for the most part nor would I expect an opinion or behind the scenes talk from Wendy after she was gone. Things I do however know was that around 2012 according to Morris he withdrew from Prince, he had the 3rd eye girl thing and was going in a new direction.

Just throwing it out there, but Morris Hayes was in the Prince camp since something like 1985.

no he wasn't in the Prince camp since like 1985

LoveGalore said:

jtfolden said:

That's quaint but not remotely the same thing in this case.

Why? Because it's Lisa and Wendy?

It's different because it's been established on multiple occasions, since the 1980's, how much they contributed by those actually involved. The only people arguing against it are a segment of fans that ignore it because they apparently *need* Prince to have done it all.

Hamad said:

All Prince’ latest bands were quite important to him at one point of his time, if you remember his interviews when asked which band was his fave, his response was always “my band now”. They were the most popular group, anything beyond that is subjective.

Of course he'd be most energized by his current collabs at the time, but I'm pretty sure not long before the end of his life, Prince actually did come aound to saying The Revolution were the most important. He also was generous with his reverence about that era after Bobby Z.'s health scare, and you could also hear the difference in how he talked about the Revolution material nobody had heard. As for the LRC story, them saying it was a pink car sounds plausible and like something they'd show off knowing about after it got changed for lyrical reasons. Who owned the car is pretty inconsequential really. Maybe Lisa just always thought it was her car.

[Edited 12/1/19 12:47pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Wendy & Lisa were extremely important to Prince in the 80s. Probably more so than any other associate. He trusted their musical instincts and insights with his music.

Wendy and Lisa contribute so much to his music that doesn't take away P's talent and genuis but he admitted himself in that Rolling Stone 1985 Prince Talk that things were easier for him because the girls were helping him. And also he allowed them in his orbit where he was guarded toward others. They probably frustrated because they gave Prince what they got and to society they were just another playing bandmates whereas Wendy and Lisa were writing partners. They were very young and were likely schooled about the business later on and that was why they didn't got properly credit. I sincerely hope that they don't constantly beat themselves to this the past is the past. They left a good mark in Prince's legacy (they are still the most talk about outside of Prince) and I hope they are proud of themselves and I think Prince was proud of them too he might not always showcased but I sincerely believe he was.