PliablyPurple said:

Hey, if we had to listen to an album from Carmen Elektra simply bcuz you were horny, you can deal with Katy Perry and Ed Sheeran, P!

PliablyPurple said:

He was right

PliablyPurple said:

I think what Prince meant with that comment was that the industry is only looking and paying for a guarenteed recipe for a "pop" hit - both in looks, and sound. Ed Sheeran is an expert at writing a catchy pop hit, and Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, et al all fit that "mold" for the female pop star. My 13 yr old daughter listens to the local "pop" station, and I can't tell one singer or song from the next, as they all sound the same these days.

*

Someone in an earlier post put MJ, Prince, and Madonna in that "manufactured pop" category with NSync, Backstreet Boys etc, and I have to completely disagree. MJ, Prince and Madonna were all distinguishable and created their own style and sound back in the 80's. You can easily distinguish an MJ song from a Prince song, and Madonna had her own distinct sound as well. Both Prince and Madonna were also constantly reinventing their style and sound. MJ stuck with his m/o which is why he faded out sooner - BUT he had a huge impact starting with Motown and then everywhere.

*

The record industry moguls are now only interested in the quick money-making hit. They are no longer patient with looking for new and/or artistic musicians to grow and build a fan base. Watch "Before The Music Dies" - excellent docu film released in 2006 which explains the downturn of the music business. There is a hilarious segment in there where they have an experienced older male songwriter (who co-wrote Jewel's big hit "Meant For Me") write a standard "pop" song, and they recruited a 17 yr old female model (who cannot sing) to record the song and make a video. The magic of auto-tune software and creative video edits turn it into what would easily become a "pop" hit today Great interviews in the film too - Erykah Badu, Questlove, Branford Marsalis, Doyle Bramhall II, Dave Matthews, etc.

PliablyPurple said:

Hey, if we had to listen to an album from Carmen Elektra simply bcuz you were horny, you can deal with Katy Perry and Ed Sheeran, P!

Good point!! And thank God the Kim B recordings were never released. They are worse than the Carmen E mess

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

LOVE IT!!

Prince accuses music industry of 'trying to ram Katy Perry and Ed Sheeran down our throats' in secret diary blasting radio play lists.

Hate the fact that I have to quote the daily mail [need to wash afterwards!]

By DARREN BOYLE FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 00:26, 26 October 2019 | UPDATED: 01:55, 26 October 2019

https://www.dailymail.co....roats.html

Both are garbage.

MotownSubdivision said:

PliablyPurple said:

Hope everyone can appreciate the use of "edge" and "Phil Collins" in the same sentence. Thanks thread!

You clearly have never heard Phil Collins' music outside of his hits. Either way, he's still 100× the artist that Ed Sheeran is. [Edited 11/2/19 15:44pm]

LOL. You're far too young to understand, hell even i'm too young, but no, Phil Collins will never be edgy. He does some interesting stuff and hip hop has loved his production for 30 odd years now but it's not cool and it never will be. On the plus side, he sold a billion more records than any edgy act ever did so he's laughing all the way to the bank.

jaawwnn said:

MotownSubdivision said:

jaawwnn said:

LOL. You're far too young to understand, hell even i'm too young, but no, Phil Collins will never be edgy. He does some interesting stuff and hip hop has loved his production for 30 odd years now but it's not cool and it never will be. On the plus side, he sold a billion more records than any edgy act ever did so he's laughing all the way to the bank.

I never said Phil Collins was "edgy". I said he had an edge compared to Sheeran, which he most certainly does. It may not be much of a contest because I'm comparing him to Ed Sheersn of all people but still.

Ah yeah, fair enough.

Also how can you be so embraced by the hip hop community and not be cool?

It's one of life's mysteries, he found a way though

jaawwnn said:

MotownSubdivision said:

PliablyPurple said: You clearly have never heard Phil Collins' music outside of his hits. Either way, he's still 100× the artist that Ed Sheeran is. [Edited 11/2/19 15:44pm]

LOL. You're far too young to understand, hell even i'm too young, but no, Phil Collins will never be edgy. He does some interesting stuff and hip hop has loved his production for 30 odd years now but it's not cool and it never will be. On the plus side, he sold a billion more records than any edgy act ever did so he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, I WAS around (as a youngin) when Phil was part of Genesis, and then went out on his own. He was "edgy" early on his 1981 album with songs like In The Air Tonight, I Missed Again), but he did get into more of the "pop machine" in his older years, as most artists tend to do. However, his No Jacket Required album was HUGE in 1985 (Sussudio, One More Night), and Against All Odds went to number one in 1984 and won him the Grammy for best male vocal.

*

So, yes he did become the "ballad boy" through his career, but he was edgier in his earlier years.

violetcrush said:

MotownSubdivision said:

MotownSubdivision said:

He wasn't edgy but he had an edge (especially compared to a bland bowl of oatmeal like Ed Sheeran).

Why does music have to be "edgy"? Adult Contemporary & light rock has always been a popular seller and so was easy listening before it. Such as:

Bing Crosby
Perry Como
Johnny Mathis
Percy Faith
The Lettermen

5th Dimension
Engelbert Humperdinck
James Last
Lennon Sisters
Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass

Mantovani
Slim Whitman
Lawrence Welk (his TV show was in production for 27 years and is still rerun)
Barbra Streisand

Richard Clayderman
Astrud Gilberto
John Denver
Captain & Tennille
Lionel Richie
Bread
America
Air Supply
Melissa Manchester
Dean Martin
The Carpenters

Andy Williams

Ray Charles Singers (not the blind Ray)
Bryan Adams

Mannheim Steamroller
Billy Ocean

Barry Manilow
Kenny Rogers

Chicago (1980s) / Peter Cetera
Michael Bolton
Richard Marx

Amy Grant
Kenny G

Whitney Houston

Luther Vandross

John Tesh

those chanting Monks albums from the early 1990s

the many power ballad hits by 1980s rock bands/singers
Yanni

Celine Dion

Boyz II Men

Josh Groban

Adele

There's also really successful songwriters and/or producers like David Foster, Jay Graydon, Burt Bacharach, Diane Warren, etc. If this kind of music didn't have a big audience, then Time-Life wouldn't have these big CD sets of soft rock hits like AM Gold sold on infomercials. Since when do the "edgy" acts get that? They sell to hipsters or a small cult audience.

violetcrush said:

jaawwnn said:

LOL. You're far too young to understand, hell even i'm too young, but no, Phil Collins will never be edgy. He does some interesting stuff and hip hop has loved his production for 30 odd years now but it's not cool and it never will be. On the plus side, he sold a billion more records than any edgy act ever did so he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, I WAS around (as a youngin) when Phil was part of Genesis, and then went out on his own. He was "edgy" early on his 1981 album with songs like In The Air Tonight, I Missed Again), but he did get into more of the "pop machine" in his older years, as most artists tend to do. However, his No Jacket Required album was HUGE in 1985 (Sussudio, One More Night), and Against All Odds went to number one in 1984 and won him the Grammy for best male vocal.

*

So, yes he did become the "ballad boy" through his career, but he was edgier in his earlier years.

Listen, far be it for me to intrude on your memories, and In the Air Tonight is a fantastic song, a wonderful piece of music and a brilliant pop single, but it's divorced dad-pop, the least cool genre . As for Genesis, they were a prog-rock band trying to push the boundaries of what's musically possible, that's a whole different thing.

I suppose to my mind edgy music has to speak to more than other musicians and obsessive music nerds, it has to be more than just a piece of music where you can talk about the production, it involves an outlook on life, a fashion, an awareness of how you are perceived etc. . I don't confuse "edgy" with "good," lots of fake-edgy stuff sucks and lots of non edgy stuff is good.

As for what MikyDolenz is asking above, music does not have to be "edgy," definitely not. I'd say the majority of the music I like doesn't fall under that bracket, but that doesn't mean I can't see the difference between how In the Air Tonight and, say, Ghost Town by the Specials (to choose another 1981 hit) makes me feel.

[Edited 11/11/19 2:38am]

jaawwnn said:

As for Genesis, they were a prog-rock band trying to push the boundaries of what's musically possible

.

I'm sorry, but Genesis were lightyears from the boundaries of "what's musically possible" so I would say they had zero chance of reaching, let alone pushing said boundaries.

.

People like Arnold Schönberg, John Coltrane or Eric Dolphy were the ones pushing those boundaries, not rock bands. But if you want to limit your scope to rock, you can still find hundreds of bands way above Genesis in terms of musicianship and genuine progressiveness.
.

Kares said:

jaawwnn said:

As for Genesis, they were a prog-rock band trying to push the boundaries of what's musically possible

.

I'm sorry, but Genesis were lightyears from the boundaries of "what's musically possible" so I would say they had zero chance of reaching, let alone pushing said boundaries.

.

People like Arnold Schönberg, John Coltrane or Eric Dolphy were the ones pushing those boundaries, not rock bands. But if you want to limit your scope to rock, you can still find hundreds of bands way above Genesis in terms of musicianship and genuine progressiveness.
.

Hey I never said they succeeded.

jaawwnn said:

Kares said:

.

I'm sorry, but Genesis were lightyears from the boundaries of "what's musically possible" so I would say they had zero chance of reaching, let alone pushing said boundaries.

.

People like Arnold Schönberg, John Coltrane or Eric Dolphy were the ones pushing those boundaries, not rock bands. But if you want to limit your scope to rock, you can still find hundreds of bands way above Genesis in terms of musicianship and genuine progressiveness.
.

Hey I never said they succeeded.

.

Fair enough

MickyDolenz said:

MotownSubdivision said:

When did I say music "had to be" edgy?

You said Phil Collins has an edge that Ed Sheeran does not have and that Ed is bland. What does that have to do with anybody liking music or a performer being popular? Michael Bublé & John Legend are also popular now. Ed Sheeran is not much different than James Taylor, Neil Diamond, or Gordon Lightfoot in the 1970s and they were popular singers. Ed is no different than all of the acts before him who sold a lot with soft music. It's like smooth jazz is generally more popular than straight jazz. Smooth jazz gets radio airplay on adult R&B stations and there's The Wave radio format for it too. Those American Songbook albums by Rod Stewart sold way more than several of his records of new songs released right before them. New albums by Tony Bennett are popular today. Some of the biggest selling Christmas albums are by Johnny Mathis. During the 1960s, The Sound Of Music Soundtrack was a big hit and so were songs like Feelings, Music Box Dancer, With You I'm Born Again, & You Light Up My Life in the 1970s. John Denver had several TV specials and was recruited to act in movies. VH-1 was originally started for adult contemporary acts and country crossover that the main MTV channel did not show. That an entire channel for AC videos was created should tell you that it is popular. No matter what was hot during any time period like psychedelic rock, disco, glam metal, arena rock, etc. there were always popular adult contemporary/easy listening/light rock acts and songs. It never went out of style. People always want romantic songs to play at weddings.

MickyDolenz said:

violetcrush said:

MotownSubdivision said:

SquirrelMeat said:

He's wrong about Ed Sheeran. He's a one man band, writes he own music and is 4 albums into a solid career. He's even built his own estate with a recoring studio. Sound Familiar?

I accept people might not like his style of music, but Prince dissing his success (he's just broken the world tour sales record), reminds me of when he was down on rap.

Prince was right about the industry overexposing and constantly forcing the same handful of acts on the general public. Yeah, we have more outlets for music listening than before but his point still stands about radio and how the mainstream music scene operates. I'm not an Ed Sheeran fan at all. He may be talented but his music is bland, insipid and unmoving. I look at him as a modern day Phil Collins but with none of the edge, fun or catchiness or really, any of the good qualities that Phil as an artist possessed. Katy Perry is to music what fast food is to gastronomy. She's made some catchy songs herself, songs far more vibrant than almost aything Ed has ever put out but she's still a processed pre-packaged LCD name that's received more attention than she is worth.

Fine, but that's just your opinion. It's bland to you, just as Prince's music is bland to others.

Ed is an absolute talent. I don't think there would be many professionals who disagree.

SquirrelMeat said:

I like BOTH of them, specially Ed. Prince, wherever he is, can STFU.

Moonbeam said:

Katy Perry is irredeemably bad, IMO. Don’t know much Ed Sheeran outside of “The Shape of You”, which is ok.

Check out the Cross Me VIDEO (not necessarily the song) - AWESOME VFX, and theme!!

RJP1205 said:

kingricefan said:

Where would today's 'artists' be without autotune? I can't listen to any radio station anymore that plays what music is 'in' because it's all autotuned to the max.

And that's why streaming is so popular now.

What does that even mean?

I do wonder whether his quote was taken slightky out of context. Ed loved Ed's first 2 albums [his lyrics would work as books of poetty IMHO] BUT subsequent music is very mcuh like ColdPLay, Adele etc ie stuck in the same grrove & virtually unidentifibale from the last album / single.

What I will say though is that Ed is a bloody genuis as a musician & a seemingly a great bloke.