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Thread started 10/12/19 8:30am

thebanishedone

moving away from guitar in the 80s

As you know during the early stage of Prince career audience was

shocked by live hard rock reworkings of the funk rnb songs from the first two albums.

In the early days Prince wanted to present him as a good guitar

player and he played guitar live on almost all songs up until 1999 tour.

During 1999 tour Prince gave lead guitar duties to Dez and

he focused more on dancing and showmanship with ocassional

guitar solo *at the end of songs Dirty Mind ,1999 and

sometimes during Lady Cab Driver.

While Purple Rain was guitar dominated record live on that tour Prince

played only on a few songs.

Continuing with the 80s guitar was more a part of arrangment

and an ocassional afterthought in Prince live

performances and studio music.

Why do you think he moved away from guitar as a part of

his performance and image?

was it because of the critics acussing him that he was as a sellout to a white rock

audience or

he wanted to expend Prince persona by focusing on the showmanship.

do u think if he didnt learn to dance and just stick 2 guitar he would have less success?

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Reply #1 posted 10/12/19 9:02am

ladygirl99

Prince was a complication person so expected to get complicated feedback. lol

I think Prince wanted to appeal to his black audience because he hated how some of them abandoned him for other artists who took advantage of 'his sound' like Ready For the World, New Edition, Janet Jackson etc. People on the org said years ago that Prince changed his sound too soon as he went from Purple Rain to ATWIAD but then again Prince believed in moving to the future. But then again that was why he did SOTT to get his black audience back.

I also think because he wanted to be know as an artist peroid that was why he didn't always focus on the guitar (from shaking his ass to doing guitar solos to dancing and doing piano and singing and even did some drumming). But then again Alan Leeds stated numerous times that Prince was frustrated that people didn't take his as a musician seriously and so he told him he should wear jeans or something more casual to be taken seriously. Of course Prince didn't listen lol because he rarely wore jeans onstage.

And also I think Prince would still been successful with the guitar and little dancing in his performance. People often raved his guitar solos (when it wasn't focus on dancing) from journalists to celebrities to fans. Also people cried and got emotional when he did guitar solo performances such as Fury and Purple Rain among others. I don't recalled people raved about his dancing as much as his guitar. I often had people loved his falsetto voice and guitar and some ballads I think dancing was afterthought to most people.

Even when he didn't dance as much during the last years of his life, people always still respect his guitar. And also when he did Piano and Mic tour he still had people raved about his skills and he was sitting down. So yes Prince would had still been successful if he didn't dance and did lot of guitar.

[Edited 10/12/19 9:03am]

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Reply #2 posted 10/12/19 12:10pm

jaawwnn

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It stayed as part of his image, he just wanted to do more didn't he? I think early on he was constrained by budget more than anything else so he had to stick to a straight up rock show. I love the Dirty Mind tour show, in some ways i wish he had stayed that raw, but then again i love the Parade show as well...glad we have both.
[Edited 10/12/19 12:11pm]
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Reply #3 posted 11/08/19 2:23pm

thebanishedone

jaawwnn said:

It stayed as part of his image, he just wanted to do more didn't he? I think early on he was constrained by budget more than anything else so he had to stick to a straight up rock show. I love the Dirty Mind tour show, in some ways i wish he had stayed that raw, but then again i love the Parade show as well...glad we have both. [Edited 10/12/19 12:11pm]

i dont think it was a budget thing.Prince wanted to be associated to rock and guitar

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Reply #4 posted 11/08/19 3:00pm

SPYZFAN1

It's already been said (by Alan Leeds and some of the bandmembers) that midway through the "Purple Rain" tour, P was already bored with the stageshow and songs. He already proved to everyone that he could crossover to the white rock audiences, and he was ready to move on.... Writer Greg Tate said that P (during the long "Purple Rain" guitar solos at the Washington DC shows) would angrily yell and get mad at the crowd and say; "Is this what you want?".."Is this the only thing you really came for?", etc. ...He probably also got tired of the Hendrix comparisons too (and didn't want to be put in that box)....I always thought that "Parade" was his attempt to try and win the black audience back. He even played the old r&b hits from the early albums on that tour....he didn't do that during the "P.R" tour.

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Reply #5 posted 11/08/19 3:28pm

thebanishedone

i know that Prince was tired of Purple Rain tour,but i dont think that he was yelling >is this what u wanted.

after all it was Princes choice to play 20 minutes long Purple Rain solos and to tell you the truth nobody likes long solos except musicians biggrin

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Reply #6 posted 11/08/19 3:58pm

SPYZFAN1

Lol! Yeah, just musicians like the long solos. biggrin .

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Reply #7 posted 11/08/19 4:36pm

thebanishedone

SPYZFAN1 said:

Lol! Yeah, just musicians like the long solos. biggrin .

i love solos but i am musician.dont tell me regular folks like 20 minutre guitar solos or 10 minute bass solos lol

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Reply #8 posted 11/08/19 6:19pm

SPYZFAN1

Most people run to the bathroom or concession stands during long solos. (lol)

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Reply #9 posted 11/09/19 4:16am

jaawwnn

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thebanishedone said:



jaawwnn said:


It stayed as part of his image, he just wanted to do more didn't he? I think early on he was constrained by budget more than anything else so he had to stick to a straight up rock show. I love the Dirty Mind tour show, in some ways i wish he had stayed that raw, but then again i love the Parade show as well...glad we have both. [Edited 10/12/19 12:11pm]

i dont think it was a budget thing.Prince wanted to be associated to rock and guitar


Prince wanted to be "associated with rock and guitar" because he played rock music and the guitar, stop trying to make it a 12 dimensional chess galaxy brain genius marketing move.
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Reply #10 posted 11/09/19 9:17am

violetcrush

jaawwnn said:

thebanishedone said:

i dont think it was a budget thing.Prince wanted to be associated to rock and guitar

Prince wanted to be "associated with rock and guitar" because he played rock music and the guitar, stop trying to make it a 12 dimensional chess galaxy brain genius marketing move.

Right. People (and also the music critics back then) read way too much into why he did this or that with his music and performances. By now we know he typcially went with what was inspiring him at the time. He already stated - even back then - he knew his longtime fans (black or white) would follow him no matter what he decided to do.

*

No doubt that some of his decisions were marketing related - like the NPGMC, media appearances, etc. But his music and performing were a natural progression of his inspiration at that time.

[Edited 11/9/19 9:18am]

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Reply #11 posted 11/09/19 10:40am

herb4

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I was always frustrated by how much Prince tended to bury the guitar in his mix and often wished he'dput it more out in front. He was sooo fucking good. A lot of albums/songs lost a little bit of "oomph" for this very reason.

"Fury" comes to mind right away.

I saw the SNL performance and then heard the album and wondered wtf happened.

He'd also deliver guitar oriented tracks in a sort of "buried" way - stuff like The Ride, SAIMH, Alexa De Paris or even the Undertaker DVD - in a way that made you go look for it instead of featuring it front and center on an album. Stick them on a b-side of treat them like a one off. Even the live version of Joy in Repetition was relegated to a bonus disc on a "box set" that was mostly bought by NPGMC members. Maybe it was on purpose but, overall, I think it worked to his detriment.

Look at how many casual listeners comment about being stunned and blown away by the WMGGW performance during the R&R HoF induction. WE knew he could do that shit but MANY were genuinely surprised and had no clue.

TGE and the production on that record was a welcome change from this tendency but, overall, his often stellar guitar work was hard to lock on to on his studio releases and too often took a back seat. Even his "chicken grease" punctuation and rhythm playing usually got the short shrift. Dirty Mind is a good showcase of his rhythm work and song writing with almost no emphasize solos. That blistering solo on Lady Cab Driver seems to come out of nowhere on the mostly synth based and sequenced 1999 album but it leaves you wanting more. He teases us a little bit more near the end of Free but, dammit, AGAIN, and similar to the outro of Let's Go Crazy, it's so rarely a feature and more of an "oh, by the way" side feature.

He could really do it all with that axe and was tremendously fun to watch play. The few times I was able to see him up close, I always loved watching his hands and fingers work that thing no matter what role he was playing. He came off as being able to do it in his sleep.

For all I know, he probably could.


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Reply #12 posted 11/09/19 11:22am

violetcrush

herb4 said:

I was always frustrated by how much Prince tended to bury the guitar in his mix and often wished he'dput it more out in front. He was sooo fucking good. A lot of albums/songs lost a little bit of "oomph" for this very reason.

"Fury" comes to mind right away.

I saw the SNL performance and then heard the album and wondered wtf happened.

He'd also deliver guitar oriented tracks in a sort of "buried" way - stuff like The Ride, SAIMH, Alexa De Paris or even the Undertaker DVD - in a way that made you go look for it instead of featuring it front and center on an album. Stick them on a b-side of treat them like a one off. Even the live version of Joy in Repetition was relegated to a bonus disc on a "box set" that was mostly bought by NPGMC members. Maybe it was on purpose but, overall, I think it worked to his detriment.

Look at how many casual listeners comment about being stunned and blown away by the WMGGW performance during the R&R HoF induction. WE knew he could do that shit but MANY were genuinely surprised and had no clue.

TGE and the production on that record was a welcome change from this tendency but, overall, his often stellar guitar work was hard to lock on to on his studio releases and too often took a back seat. Even his "chicken grease" punctuation and rhythm playing usually got the short shrift. Dirty Mind is a good showcase of his rhythm work and song writing with almost no emphasize solos. That blistering solo on Lady Cab Driver seems to come out of nowhere on the mostly synth based and sequenced 1999 album but it leaves you wanting more. He teases us a little bit more near the end of Free but, dammit, AGAIN, and similar to the outro of Let's Go Crazy, it's so rarely a feature and more of an "oh, by the way" side feature.

He could really do it all with that axe and was tremendously fun to watch play. The few times I was able to see him up close, I always loved watching his hands and fingers work that thing no matter what role he was playing. He came off as being able to do it in his sleep.

For all I know, he probably could.


Don't forget The Undertaker sessions smile Of course, only the serious fans knew/know about that one, but I love his guitar playing there.

*

I just think he loved his funk stuff so much that he gave that more attention than his heavy guitar solos - as if to say, hey, I'm a funk man at heart, but here's what I can also do on the guitar.

*

I loved watching his hands/fingers on guitar too. He was one of the best for sure.

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Reply #13 posted 11/09/19 1:55pm

herb4

avatar

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

I was always frustrated by how much Prince tended to bury the guitar in his mix and often wished he'dput it more out in front. He was sooo fucking good. A lot of albums/songs lost a little bit of "oomph" for this very reason.

"Fury" comes to mind right away.

I saw the SNL performance and then heard the album and wondered wtf happened.

He'd also deliver guitar oriented tracks in a sort of "buried" way - stuff like The Ride, SAIMH, Alexa De Paris or even the Undertaker DVD - in a way that made you go look for it instead of featuring it front and center on an album. Stick them on a b-side of treat them like a one off. Even the live version of Joy in Repetition was relegated to a bonus disc on a "box set" that was mostly bought by NPGMC members. Maybe it was on purpose but, overall, I think it worked to his detriment.

Look at how many casual listeners comment about being stunned and blown away by the WMGGW performance during the R&R HoF induction. WE knew he could do that shit but MANY were genuinely surprised and had no clue.

TGE and the production on that record was a welcome change from this tendency but, overall, his often stellar guitar work was hard to lock on to on his studio releases and too often took a back seat. Even his "chicken grease" punctuation and rhythm playing usually got the short shrift. Dirty Mind is a good showcase of his rhythm work and song writing with almost no emphasize solos. That blistering solo on Lady Cab Driver seems to come out of nowhere on the mostly synth based and sequenced 1999 album but it leaves you wanting more. He teases us a little bit more near the end of Free but, dammit, AGAIN, and similar to the outro of Let's Go Crazy, it's so rarely a feature and more of an "oh, by the way" side feature.

He could really do it all with that axe and was tremendously fun to watch play. The few times I was able to see him up close, I always loved watching his hands and fingers work that thing no matter what role he was playing. He came off as being able to do it in his sleep.

For all I know, he probably could.


Don't forget The Undertaker sessions smile Of course, only the serious fans knew/know about that one, but I love his guitar playing there.

*

I just think he loved his funk stuff so much that he gave that more attention than his heavy guitar solos - as if to say, hey, I'm a funk man at heart, but here's what I can also do on the guitar.

*

I loved watching his hands/fingers on guitar too. He was one of the best for sure.


I did mention The Undertaker. Great little EP ruined by that spastic editing. Hard to watch but a lot of fun to listen to.

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Reply #14 posted 11/09/19 4:13pm

violetcrush

herb4 said:



violetcrush said:




herb4 said:


I was always frustrated by how much Prince tended to bury the guitar in his mix and often wished he'dput it more out in front. He was sooo fucking good. A lot of albums/songs lost a little bit of "oomph" for this very reason.

"Fury" comes to mind right away.

I saw the SNL performance and then heard the album and wondered wtf happened.

He'd also deliver guitar oriented tracks in a sort of "buried" way - stuff like The Ride, SAIMH, Alexa De Paris or even the Undertaker DVD - in a way that made you go look for it instead of featuring it front and center on an album. Stick them on a b-side of treat them like a one off. Even the live version of Joy in Repetition was relegated to a bonus disc on a "box set" that was mostly bought by NPGMC members. Maybe it was on purpose but, overall, I think it worked to his detriment.

Look at how many casual listeners comment about being stunned and blown away by the WMGGW performance during the R&R HoF induction. WE knew he could do that shit but MANY were genuinely surprised and had no clue.

TGE and the production on that record was a welcome change from this tendency but, overall, his often stellar guitar work was hard to lock on to on his studio releases and too often took a back seat. Even his "chicken grease" punctuation and rhythm playing usually got the short shrift. Dirty Mind is a good showcase of his rhythm work and song writing with almost no emphasize solos. That blistering solo on Lady Cab Driver seems to come out of nowhere on the mostly synth based and sequenced 1999 album but it leaves you wanting more. He teases us a little bit more near the end of Free but, dammit, AGAIN, and similar to the outro of Let's Go Crazy, it's so rarely a feature and more of an "oh, by the way" side feature.

He could really do it all with that axe and was tremendously fun to watch play. The few times I was able to see him up close, I always loved watching his hands and fingers work that thing no matter what role he was playing. He came off as being able to do it in his sleep.

For all I know, he probably could.





Don't forget The Undertaker sessions smile Of course, only the serious fans knew/know about that one, but I love his guitar playing there.


*


I just think he loved his funk stuff so much that he gave that more attention than his heavy guitar solos - as if to say, hey, I'm a funk man at heart, but here's what I can also do on the guitar.


*


I loved watching his hands/fingers on guitar too. He was one of the best for sure.




I did mention The Undertaker. Great little EP ruined by that spastic editing. Hard to watch but a lot of fun to listen to.


Okay, I missed that. Yes, that blurred mess with Vanessa Marcil was pointless and annoying, but it’s great to listen to the music smile
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