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Reply #30 posted 07/06/19 12:17pm

Dalia11

He did get married twice at least.
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Reply #31 posted 07/06/19 12:21pm

violetcrush

Dalia11 said:

Benny, good point. That is why I said prone to. If there are other positive family members around the kids that can help them learn positive things, love, compassion, using non-violence, etc.

Andre's Mother Bernadette was a hugely positive force in Prince's life. She came a bit later, but still made a positive impact.

*

Prince wrote about most of his childhood and relationship issues in his song The Sacrifice Of Victor:

*

What is sacrifice?
(We sacrifice) {sample}
NPG n mass attack
Sonny, please
(We sacrifice)
Church, if U will, please turn 2 the Book of Victor
We'd like 2 start at the top if U don't mind
We sacrifice (Go'n say it, preacher)

I was born on a bloodstained table
Cord wrapped around my neck
Epileptic till the age of 7
I was sure heaven marked the day

We sacrifice
I know joy lives 'round the corner
Joy 4 sale down on the corner (We sacrifice)
1 day I'll visit her, I'm gonna
Out on my block, I'm just a loner (We sacrifice)
When she tell me everything (Tell me)
That's when the angels sing (We sacrifice)
That's when the victory is sho'nuff
Sho'nuff down with the sacrifice (We sacrifice)
Help me (Go'n say it, preacher)

Mama held up her baby 4 protection
From a man with a strap n his hand
Ask little Victor about pain and rejection
U think he don't when he do understand

We sacrifice
I know joy lives 'round the corner
Joy 4 sale down on the corner (We sacrifice)
1 day I'll visit her, I'm gonna
Out on my block, I'm just a loner (We sacrifice)
When she tell me everything (Tell me)
That's when the angels sing (We sacrifice)
That's when the victory is sho'nuff
Sho'nuff down with the sacrifice (We sacrifice)
Help me
S A C R I F I C E (We... sacrifice)
Go'n say it, preacher
We sacrifice {repeat}
If U'll turn the page (Go'n say it, preacher)

1967 n a bus marked, "Public Schools"
Rode me and a group of unsuspectin' political tools
Our parents wondered what it was like 2 have another color near
So they put their babies 2gether 2 eliminate the fear
We sacrifice, yes we did
Fighting 1 another (We sacrifice) (Go'n say it, preacher)
All because of color

The angel of hate, she taught me how 2 kick her
If she called me anything but Victor (U mean like nigga?)
If the only thing that tells is Father Time
Then sacrifice is a mother sublime, we love it
Listen mother, we sacrifice

Go'n... say it, preacher (We sacrifice)
Well... (What is sacrifice?)
Hold ur text, deacon

Never understood my old friends r laughin'
They got high when everything else got wrong (Pass the booze over here)
Dr. King was killed and the streets, they started burnin'
When the smoke was clear, their high was gone
Education got important, so important 2 Victor
A little more important than Ripple and weed
Bernadette's a lady and she told me (What she say?)
"Whatever U do son, a little discipline is what U need
Is what U need, U need 2 sacrifice" (We sacrifice)

I know joy lives 'round the corner
Joy 4 sale down on the corner (We sacrifice)
1 day I'll visit her, I'm gonna (Oh yeah)
Out on my block, I'm just a loner (We sacrifice)
When she tell me everything (Tell me)
That's when the angels sing (We sacrifice)
That's when the victory is sho'nuff
Sho'nuff down with the sacrifice (We sacrifice)
What is sacrifice? (We sacrifice)
Oh yeah (S A C R I F I C E)
We sacrifice (Joy around the corner) (We'll do it)
Hey Wendy, how come we.. (we sacrifice)
Excuse me, y'all (We sacrifice)
We don't mean 2 take up ur time (Joy around the corner)
But we got somethin' heavy on our minds (We sacrifice)
Yes we do (We sacrifice)

Sometimes U gotta leave the 1 U love
Somebody, anybody, everybody wave ur hand
4 joy around the corner there's another sacrifice
But U got 2 do the best U can, y'all (We sacrifice)
Say U gotta go thru it
U got 2 go thru it, y'all
Have mercy, yeah
It's that the phone? It's that the phone? Tell 'em I said...
Now Lord, have mercy on my feet (Joy around the corner)
Even if I get tired I... got 2 keep on walkin' down this road
I got 2 keep on walkin' down this road (Joy around the corner)
Till I reach my destination, yeah (We sacrifice) (Bow down)
My name will b Victor
Amen

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Reply #32 posted 07/06/19 12:23pm

violetcrush

Dalia11 said:

He did get married twice at least.

He did. He tried, but it seems the behavior in the marriages was the same as with other more serious relationships with women. Monogamy was tough for him.

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Reply #33 posted 07/06/19 1:07pm

SirPussalot

good thread, his creativity was driven by a wish to create a different childhood .. his version of adressing the pain .. like imaginary worlds where he is in control ? he made a real world of that childhood escapism ...we can only hypothise based on models .. p himself wouldnt know the extent

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Reply #34 posted 07/06/19 2:35pm

violetcrush

Prince’s inability to sustain personal relationships - the real ones, not the “yes men/women” - is very sad.
*
Susan Roger’s story of recording Wally with Prince, when he said “the word melody sounds the same as the French word malady”. He knew he had issues with relationships.
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Reply #35 posted 07/06/19 7:21pm

PeteSilas

benni said:

Dalia11 said:

Many people who have unresolved childhood issues with parents or experienced some form of abuse, grew up in broken homes, saw their parents fighting/abusing the other(physically, mentally, verbally)is prone to repeat what they learned/think is normal for rationships in their future relationships. Boys who did not have a good relationship with their mother are prone to have negative or abusive relationships as adults. Girls who did not have a good relationship with their father, grew up in a broken home was abused by one or both parents in some way, saw their parents fight, abuse the other in some way - are prone to have a dysfunctional/abusive relationship as an adult. They repeat the negative relationship they learned and think is normal.


I disagree on this point. Most people that abuse have been abused, yes, but most people that have been abused, do not grow up to abuse others. There is a distinction there and it's an important distinction to make. The majority of childhood abuse victims, grow up to be the opposite of what their parents/legal guardians were, and have a very difficult time asserting themselves. Yes, they do need control in their life, but usually that control is over themselves, more so than other people (controlling emotions, controlling their own actions/responses).

true in my case, when your boundaries are destroyed you don't really know how to say no, I've gotten better at it but nowhere near as good as most people. abuse effects everyone different, most abusive people were abused in some way as children, and usually, they either imitate what happened or go to the other extreme. My mom was left home as a child, her reaction was to overprotect and overmonitor us, that fucked me up, and having a raging mother, angry at the world just made me wary of women, it doesn't help that women are rarely friendly to men they don't know so as a result, i never had those relationships. On the whole, I'm ok with that, most of the couples I know are miserable as hell and I know plenty of divorced men who have fantasies of killing their exes, i don't think i missed out on much but I would have loved to have kids and I like to think I would have done a better job than my folks but you never know.

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Reply #36 posted 07/06/19 7:23pm

PeteSilas

violetcrush said:

Dalia11 said:

True. It would have been nice if they did know about eachother's childhood issues, got therapy together, and help the other resolve their issues. Maybe they could have got married? Capricorn and Geminis can be a good match when they are on the same page and love the other. They were young too. Over 30 is when people are mature.

Prince, it seems, was not the marrying kind. Also, his life was his music, and his only focus was becoming a superstar musician at that time. Yes, and the younger age was a factor as well. Susan Rogers stated she had mentioned therapy once to Prince, and he looked at her like she was crazy. I don't think he believed in resolving issues through therapy. His therapy was the recording studio smile

she also said prince thought it was a sin to be depressed but from the sounds of it, he had problems with it at various points, particularly at the end. I mean, I think that might have been a huge factor in his not putting up more of a fight against the addiction, he was down.

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Reply #37 posted 07/06/19 7:26pm

PeteSilas

I've heard the autistic theory before and back when most of us were young, all these labels that we have now didn't really exist or if they did, were just being coined and learned about (add, autism,fetal alcohol syndrome) I don't know if Prince had those issues but I have always believed that the great rock artists were schizoid, that they had to be, almost like shaman, that they had to be alone and isolated to give us what they did. It was true for Elvis, Springsteen, I think chuck berry, marvin gaye, not all of the great artists came across like that, Little Richard never came across as any sort of introvert did he? but the majority of them do and the majority of them have issues with depression, most of them are a little off.

violetcrush said:

alxndrstff said:

This is only to put what I post into context instead of some sort of boast, to be clear - my experience with Psychology is only at Honours Degree level at Glasgow Uni. I'm in no way claiming to be an expert.

The biggest issue you have trying to apply any theory to someone like Prince is the sheer difference in lifestyle he had compared to the average person once fame kicked in. The pressure to be a certain way, or as Prince would often do try to confound those expectations, was huge. People reacted to him differently also. All that pretty standard stuff that happens to celebrities was there.

But then you had something more, something that doesn't always apply. Prince wasn't just a talented musician. I could imagine his life being almost painful at times as he overflowed with creativity. Anyone who has that sort of urge will tell you it's very difficult to just switch it off, or to allow something they've thought of to just drift away. They HAVE to explore it, create it, bring it to life. Prince himself told us that he was at the extreme edge of that, and believed his time in the studio was unhealthy at one point. He also described how it was impossible for him to listen to other music without imagining how he would produce it, change it etc.

I can't even begin to understand a life where you can't just sit and enjoy music. It's one of the very few art forms the vast majority of people love in some way, and use to help boost their mood. Prince could only do that when performing or creating.

And music was what defined him. From a very young age, others and himself would have spoken about him not in terms of who he was, but what he was good at.

Like many, he had childhood traumas to deal with. Being the height and build he was, he had that to deal with too. At his absolute creative peaks, it was clear he was trying to prove something to more than just himself.

So yes, there was stories of controlling behaviour, and plenty of things people would categorise as character flaws. And much of it did deserve criticism. But it can't be easily explained by standard psychological theories, because he didn't fall into the categories that tends to cover.

From a perspective of psychology, which is simply a science trying to explain and predict human behaviour (the latter of those does contain a lot of concerns in my eyes), it's nigh on impossible to analyse Prince.

It has also been speculated - by some of those who had close relationships with Prince - that he may have been on the Autistic Spectrum. He was more than just shy - he was blatantly socially awkward, and he despised being in social situations with others whom he did not know, or where he could not control the situation. Was this a result of his tumultuous childhood, or would he have been this way having experienced a loving and nurturing childhood? Hard to know for sure.

*

He was most comfortable and interactive when he was performing on a stage with his close associates. His personality did a 180 degree turn. The crowd of strangers/fans were at a distance and standing below him. He was happiest, because he could do the thing he loved the most - play his music - and also feel the adoration of the crowd, which was a huge high, and I imagine it was what helped him to forget those feelings of being unloved, teased, and alone as a child.

*

It's quite interesting though - the relationship Prince had with his Father. By many associates' accounts he revered his Father, and they were very close by the time Purple Rain was released. This was confirmed during the 1985 RS interview where his Father was a prominent feature. During his first P&M Gala show Prince stated his Father was his best friend, and he gave him his rhythm. It seems that, by the end of his life, Prince had reconciled any issues he may have had about his childhood or relationship with his Father.

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Reply #38 posted 07/06/19 8:40pm

Strive

Prince wasn't autistic. He was a shy, anxious, man obsessed with music. Not an idiot savant but somebody who worked like a fiend on his craft.

Outside of his otherworldly ability to keep time, everybody who worked with him said he got to where he was through sheer will.

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Reply #39 posted 07/07/19 3:38am

Dalia11

Musicians are intelligent. Prince was intelligent: musically(performance, composing, etc),linguisticly, spatial, kinesthetically. That is why children need to learn about music the arts, it promotes intelligence.
[Edited 7/7/19 3:41am]
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Reply #40 posted 07/07/19 4:09am

Dalia11

And Prince was a child prodigy!
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Reply #41 posted 07/07/19 5:26am

TheTruth123

There’s so much misinformation and assuming here. As Prince said, he had to deal with many “psychologists”.

Prince suffered from something we all do. Something he referred to as his “conditioning” in AOA, and like all of us his family had dysfunction. Some worse than others, his somewhere in the middle, I have seen worse.

Theres some psychology to it and only a tiny bit of astrology (if that) as for all of us. And as for all of us also, the healing is in a spiritual one.
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Reply #42 posted 07/07/19 5:26am

nonesuch

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Prince, it seems, was not the marrying kind. Also, his life was his music, and his only focus was becoming a superstar musician at that time. Yes, and the younger age was a factor as well. Susan Rogers stated she had mentioned therapy once to Prince, and he looked at her like she was crazy. I don't think he believed in resolving issues through therapy. His therapy was the recording studio smile

she also said prince thought it was a sin to be depressed but from the sounds of it, he had problems with it at various points, particularly at the end. I mean, I think that might have been a huge factor in his not putting up more of a fight against the addiction, he was down.

If Prince really cultivated the opinion that Depression is a sin, than he thought alike to 80 % of all people in the so called western civilized world. Being beaten by Clinical Depression is a severe ailment, an illness that is not easily cureable. It can be so devastating that it'll ultimately kill those affected by it. One of the reasons for the many suicides resulting from it is that a large number of people feel it inappropriate to talk about suffering from it early on. It's still stigamtized and one of the reasons for that is the perception that Depression might be „a sin“. That's completely unacceptable.

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Reply #43 posted 07/07/19 7:20am

violetcrush

Strive said:

Prince wasn't autistic. He was a shy, anxious, man obsessed with music. Not an idiot savant but somebody who worked like a fiend on his craft.



Outside of his otherworldly ability to keep time, everybody who worked with him said he got to where he was through sheer will.


There are many aspects/levels of Autism. Many on the spectrum are extremely intelligent and often very skilled in a specific area - Math, music, etc.
*
Many associate Autism with lower intelligence, but that is just not the case. Prince was more than just “shy”. Typical social behavior was extremely difficult for him - even as a young child.
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Reply #44 posted 07/07/19 8:55am

onlyforaminute

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violetcrush said:

Strive said:

Prince wasn't autistic. He was a shy, anxious, man obsessed with music. Not an idiot savant but somebody who worked like a fiend on his craft.



Outside of his otherworldly ability to keep time, everybody who worked with him said he got to where he was through sheer will.


There are many aspects/levels of Autism. Many on the spectrum are extremely intelligent and often very skilled in a specific area - Math, music, etc.
*
Many associate Autism with lower intelligence, but that is just not the case. Prince was more than just “shy”. Typical social behavior was extremely difficult for him - even as a young child.



There are a mountain of spectrums, dyslexia has spectrums, claustrophobia has a spectrum. In truth at the end of the day all of us are on some kind of spectrum. Many traits show up on all types of these various spectrums. Only a mental health professional through testing can make an analysis on what specific spectrum an individual falls into. Having a college degree doesn't make anyone a mental health expert nor does working or sleeping with someone give anyone some mental health authority. Pop culture analysis is just pop culture analysis. Autism is the popular culture mental health issue theses days so anyone who has an ounce of intelligence, seems unusually shy, and works uniquely hard, bam, they must be on the autistic spectrum, it sounds exotic and explains everything. It's like people who are consciously very neat and organized claiming they're OCD, that's not real OCD that just being neat and organized anyone can learn to be that way over time.
[Edited 7/7/19 9:01am]
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #45 posted 07/07/19 9:06am

onlyforaminute

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Dalia11 said:

onlyforaminute said:

I'd 1st like to get to a point of separating fact from fiction before even trying to delve into his psychology. We are nowhere near that, there has been so much embellishing to make thing so much more sensationalized. Lack of understanding of culture, environment and just plain individualism mmke these exercises pretty much cringeworthy. But it is what it is. Someone obviously finds it satisfying.


True. And it is good to talk about psychology, childhood abuse, judging people. People have help eachother. And stop childhood abuse, abuse in general, fighting, etc.

Can you specify what abuse. There's physical, emotional, psychological, probably others. Just saying child abuse does sound tragic but so general what are the specifics you want to highlight in his life?
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #46 posted 07/07/19 9:53am

laytonian

Prince supported Autism Rocks because he believed he was on the spectrum.
https://mediahouseinterna...et-prince/
Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #47 posted 07/07/19 10:11am

onlyforaminute

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laytonian said:

Prince supported Autism Rocks because he believed he was on the spectrum.
https://mediahouseinterna...et-prince/

Maybe he did. But he also supported other childhood issues too. Strange that those who keep bringing it up around here base it on someone else's analysis and not on what Prince has said about himself which leads me to believe that tidbit was added post mortem. That has never been mentioned about him until after he passed.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #48 posted 07/07/19 11:09am

TheEnglishGent

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Dalia11 said:

In the song "Papa", he talks about his father beating him. At the end of the song he states: "Don't abuse children or else they will turn out like me!". He was in his 30's when this song came out from the "Come" album. His father used to be critical of Prince's music. Saying to his child son your music is not good. That is not good when a parent is envious of their child's talent because they were not successful in their career!

In the song Papa the dad blew his brains out with a shotgun. We know that isn't true, so how much of the rest is true? Or do we just pick and choose lines to support a particular narrative?

RIP sad
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Reply #49 posted 07/07/19 11:52am

Dalia11

I actually forgot about that part. My point was, he was in his 30's when the song came out, that could have indicated that he still had unresolved issues with his father! And in the 90's Prince had said in some interviews that he and his father were estranged!
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Reply #50 posted 07/07/19 12:44pm

Dalia11

Psychologist and psychiatrists use the DSM 4 or 5. Diognostic statistical manual to diagnose people.

True, going to college does not make a person an expert in their field. Learning continuously makes people experts. And having a broad knowledge increases a person's expertise in a subject/subjects.

That is why sometimes people need to get a second or third opinion when seeing any medical professional. They can make mistakes too.
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Reply #51 posted 07/07/19 12:54pm

Strive

violetcrush said:

Strive said:

Prince wasn't autistic. He was a shy, anxious, man obsessed with music. Not an idiot savant but somebody who worked like a fiend on his craft.

Outside of his otherworldly ability to keep time, everybody who worked with him said he got to where he was through sheer will.

There are many aspects/levels of Autism. Many on the spectrum are extremely intelligent and often very skilled in a specific area - Math, music, etc. * Many associate Autism with lower intelligence, but that is just not the case. Prince was more than just “shy”. Typical social behavior was extremely difficult for him - even as a young child.

Prince also had the ability to create the Prince character we all know. He had a sense of humor. He could make/hold relationships and had an intense yearning for the company of others.

Being intentionally aloof or uncaring of certain aspects of life isn't autism. From most accounts, he was a regular guy who never really got over his rough upbringing and valued work over everything else.

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Reply #52 posted 07/07/19 1:46pm

Dalia11

I do like to listen to his song "Papa", the pain and anger in his voice is sad to hear.

Singing that song was sublimation. Channeling unacceptable thoughts and feelings into socially acceptable behavior.

Example: James deals with his angry feelings toward his family by writing science-fiction stories about battles between civilizations.

And Prince had several songs with anger in the lyrics!
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Reply #53 posted 07/07/19 3:41pm

onlyforaminute

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The biggest problem with these type of things is the constant ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room or rather making it a non-factor. Prince had an opioid dependency. So far I've only heard one person who actually knew him admit he took pills, and currently that person has had their career taken away from them, rightly or wrongly so, we'll never know. It's been rumored Prince's problem started anywhere either during the PR tour all the way to about 2010, depending on whose camp one chooses to be a part of. Its extremely hard to analyze anyone's behavior without including the effect/affects of using and hiding opioid use. I love the man to my core and enough time has passed for someone to come clean about what they knew, yet everyone wants to absolve themselves of any knowledge and I'll say for good reason. But facts can't even be known until that truth gets told. These are my feelings.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #54 posted 07/07/19 4:07pm

Dalia11

If that is true, then some doctors, pharmacists are responsible.
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Reply #55 posted 07/07/19 4:31pm

onlyforaminute

avatar

Dalia11 said:

If that is true, then some doctors, pharmacists are responsible.



He died of an opioid overdose 6 days after almost dying from an overdose. Its way passed time to face that something serious had been going on with that man and it had been going on for a while. We simply don't know for how long, yet we seem to know all about the abuse he endured as a child and he had some form of autism because those who knew him best told us so.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #56 posted 07/07/19 5:29pm

Dalia11

Doctors and pharmacists are human. Most only care about making money. Especially if they do not like a person, are envious, prejudiced, etc.

The ones who care about people will help them at the start of an addiction to stop the addiction to a drug. Not give a person more drugs and make the situation worse!
[Edited 7/7/19 19:46pm]
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Reply #57 posted 07/07/19 6:48pm

benni

Dalia11 said:

Psychologist and psychiatrists use the DSM 4 or 5. Diognostic statistical manual to diagnose people. True, going to college does not make a person an expert in their field. Learning continuously makes people experts. And having a broad knowledge increases a person's expertise in a subject/subjects. That is why sometimes people need to get a second or third opinion when seeing any medical professional. They can make mistakes too.



It is the DSM-V now. I have the DSM-IV TR and really need to update it to the V because there are diagnoses that have changed, been removed, been added. But the DSM books are expensive. I had to take a DSM class in grad school for social work.

The one thing about the DSM is that you have to review the signs of each diagnosis and determine whether they meet the criteria for that diagnosis, or determine whether it might fit better under another diagnosis, or whether there might be other factors at play (medical and social) that might better account for the current symptoms.

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Reply #58 posted 07/07/19 7:30pm

Dalia11

I attended college 21 years ago, I have not read the DSM 4, 5 in some time. I will check on line. It is true it has to be updated.
[Edited 7/7/19 19:33pm]
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Reply #59 posted 07/07/19 7:37pm

Dalia11

Dalia11 said:

Doctors and pharmacists are human. Most only care about making money. Especially if they do not like a person, are envious, prejudiced, etc.

The ones who care about people will help them at the start of an addiction to stop the addiction to a drug. Not give a person more drugs and make the situation worse.


No human can avoid the effects of The Universal Laws.
[Edited 7/7/19 19:44pm]
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince's Personality, a discussion of some theories , not a diagnosis of his personality.