databank said:

Kares said:

.
This is a joke.
I'll refuse to buy the so-called "deluxe" edition for £50 just to get liner notes with the same music content.
.
Time to take action. I've had enough.

TBH it's likely such liner notes will be shared by purchasers here or on Discogs, as was the case with PR Deluxe and many other releases without any label sueing Discogs for copyright infringement AFAIK, so as long as the internet allows one to access them without paying and it's up to everyone to find them, I think it's fair game.

.
Sure, but it's not about me. I'm sure I'll be able to find scans of it online. It's about the principle. And it's about being totally fed up now with how Prince's legacy is mistreated. After 3 years, there are no more excuses.
I do have a detailed plan for his legacy (that goes beyond the vault content) and I'm going to contact everyone in charge and will try to make a change. This is not what this man's legacy deserves.
.
(And obviously I'm not mad about the missing booklet. I'm disappointed with the inaccurate information the Estate is putting out everywhere, from PP Museum to the releases, I'm disappointed with the apparent lack of knowledge and most importantly: the lack of concept and vision.)
.

[Edited 6/17/19 8:13am]

Kares said:

I do have a detailed plan for his legacy (that goes beyond the vault content) and I'm going to contact everyone in charge and will try to make a change. This is not what this man's legacy deserves.

.

I do agree here.

If I can help, please let me know.

WB Benelux did not reply to quetions about mixing authority.

carlos00 said:

Well then, sell us a copy of the 2" tapes.

Yes, 24/96 will do.

Then we can see for ourselves and mix for our selves. (any decent PC can do this nowadays)

how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?

They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself

Thanks to 'The Purple Stream' (Facebook) for the heads up!

Hmm.. no video shows up when I push 'Preview Post' ([youtube] youtube link [/youtube]), but here is a first Look at the CD release & booklet: https://youtu.be/9EofLDDyAKI


EG

ElGorillos said:

Thanks to 'The Purple Stream' (Facebook) for the heads up!

Hmm.. no video shows up when I push 'Preview Post' ([youtube] youtube link [/youtube]), but here is a first Look at the CD release & booklet: https://youtu.be/9EofLDDyAKI


EG

.

Thanks for the link!

.

So:

.

"All songs mixed by Niko Bolas except:

"Love... Thy Will Be Done" mixed by Michael Koppelman

"Nothing Compares 2 U" mixed by Tony Maserati
Mastered by Bernie Grundman
Archival Producer/A&R: Michael Howe"

.

etc.

.

Looks like "Love... Thy Will Be Done" is the only song they didn't remix for "Originals".

.

Duane Tudahl is listed under "Thanks to", among many others.

[Edited 6/17/19 12:14pm]

databank said:

.

Don't tell me. But many people here are holding on to their bucks. See how they blamed Prince 4 not filling the CB CD's to their technical 80 minutes, totally ignoring the fact that P was trying to turn CB into an album, a statement, and that music isn't paid by the minute. See the fuss that was made over Duane rereleasing his book. It was a mere 25 or 30 bucks to spend for the reissue, and I gladly did it, but there was some namecalling. To Duane of all people. On the Org. Nuff said

Everyone has opinions, that's why a forum like this is even read. If we all felt the same way, it would be too boring to read. If Prince had released a 100 disc box set with each disc at 10 minutes a disc, there would be tons of complaining...but there would be tons of people so happy and satisfied with it.

Honestly, if the disc is not at least 70 minutes, I feel cheated. Many artists satisfy their fans with discs filled up. If it were a FLAC file collection, would you pay $30 for 30 minutes? I know some would, but many would feel cheated.

As far as Duane's book, I wish he would have let it be, and save the new information as a add on to the next book, if there is one. I was lucky, and bought it after the new one came out. As a Paul McCartney fan, I just knew there would be a deluxe of Egypt Station, and sure enough, I saved by waiting for the newer version, but Paul has a ton of fans unhappy with him for that. For Prince, Crystal Ball had so many faults, and the short discs did not help the cause. Sure, it would have been awkwrd for it to be on 3 discs, but it would have been cheaper, and doubt there would have been anybody marching on Paisley demanding that they get it on five discs for more money...

but it's all opinion...and my opinions are shared by some, hated by many, but they're mine.

paisleypark4 said:

carlos00 said:

Thanks for the answer. Now i understand. Maybe Neversin can tell us more about it.

Right because it sounds musically extremely close to the released version so not sure what could have been the difference myself.

If you listen to the released version again, you will notice clear differences.

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

Don't tell me. But many people here are holding on to their bucks. See how they blamed Prince 4 not filling the CB CD's to their technical 80 minutes, totally ignoring the fact that P was trying to turn CB into an album, a statement, and that music isn't paid by the minute. See the fuss that was made over Duane rereleasing his book. It was a mere 25 or 30 bucks to spend for the reissue, and I gladly did it, but there was some namecalling. To Duane of all people. On the Org. Nuff said

Everyone has opinions, that's why a forum like this is even read. If we all felt the same way, it would be too boring to read. If Prince had released a 100 disc box set with each disc at 10 minutes a disc, there would be tons of complaining...but there would be tons of people so happy and satisfied with it.

Honestly, if the disc is not at least 70 minutes, I feel cheated. Many artists satisfy their fans with discs filled up. If it were a FLAC file collection, would you pay $30 for 30 minutes? I know some would, but many would feel cheated.

As far as Duane's book, I wish he would have let it be, and save the new information as a add on to the next book, if there is one. I was lucky, and bought it after the new one came out. As a Paul McCartney fan, I just knew there would be a deluxe of Egypt Station, and sure enough, I saved by waiting for the newer version, but Paul has a ton of fans unhappy with him for that. For Prince, Crystal Ball had so many faults, and the short discs did not help the cause. Sure, it would have been awkwrd for it to be on 3 discs, but it would have been cheaper, and doubt there would have been anybody marching on Paisley demanding that they get it on five discs for more money...

but it's all opinion...and my opinions are shared by some, hated by many, but they're mine.

You're talking about compilations, not albums, aren't you?

TrevorAyer said:

how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?

They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?

Certainly this is out of the question.

udo said:

.

Exactly.

It shows that `they` did not think that that info was of any interest to us.

Perhaps on a need to know basis?

I.o.w.: there's a lot of change needed there.

.

I almost forgot:

.

Why no jewelcase?

Is it that expen$ive versus the cardboard?

.

.

.

[Edited 6/17/19 7:32am]

Jewel case?

Musicology, 3121, PE, Lotus, 20Ten, AOA, Plectrum = no Jewel case

HNR Phase 1&2 = Jewel case

With 6 of his last 8 releases in variations of the Paper cases, not a shock to me...

olb99 said:

ElGorillos said:

Thanks to 'The Purple Stream' (Facebook) for the heads up!

Hmm.. no video shows up when I push 'Preview Post' ([youtube] youtube link [/youtube]), but here is a first Look at the CD release & booklet: https://youtu.be/9EofLDDyAKI


EG

.

Thanks for the link!

.

So:

.

"All songs mixed by Niko Bolas except:

"Love... Thy Will Be Done" mixed by Michael Koppelman

"Nothing Compares 2 U" mixed by Tony Maserati
Mastered by Bernie Grundman
Archival Producer/A&R: Michael Howe"

.

etc.

.

Looks like "Love... Thy Will Be Done" is the only song they didn't remix for "Originals".

.

Duane Tudahl is listed under "Thanks to", among many others.

[Edited 6/17/19 12:14pm]

At least Michael Howe was transparant about them remixing the multitracks to try and emulate the cassette downmixes they'd found but didn't feel like release as such because of sound quality concerns.

Glad to know Duane was consulted, or that they used his research to some extent. Maybe Duane will choose to address this here at some point in the future but it's his prerogative to do so or not.

Kares said:

databank said:

TBH it's likely such liner notes will be shared by purchasers here or on Discogs, as was the case with PR Deluxe and many other releases without any label sueing Discogs for copyright infringement AFAIK, so as long as the internet allows one to access them without paying and it's up to everyone to find them, I think it's fair game.

.
Sure, but it's not about me. I'm sure I'll be able to find scans of it online. It's about the principle. And it's about being totally fed up now with how Prince's legacy is mistreated. After 3 years, there are no more excuses.
I do have a detailed plan for his legacy (that goes beyond the vault content) and I'm going to contact everyone in charge and will try to make a change. This is not what this man's legacy deserves.
.
(And obviously I'm not mad about the missing booklet. I'm disappointed with the inaccurate information the Estate is putting out everywhere, from PP Museum to the releases, I'm disappointed with the apparent lack of knowledge and most importantly: the lack of concept and vision.)
.

[Edited 6/17/19 8:13am]

Good luck with that. But I fear that this will look like a mere mortal addressing the gods, and that the gods won't listen to a mere mortal...

databank said:

olb99 said:

.

Thanks for the link!

.

So:

.

"All songs mixed by Niko Bolas except:

"Love... Thy Will Be Done" mixed by Michael Koppelman

"Nothing Compares 2 U" mixed by Tony Maserati
Mastered by Bernie Grundman
Archival Producer/A&R: Michael Howe"

.

etc.

.

Looks like "Love... Thy Will Be Done" is the only song they didn't remix for "Originals".

.

Duane Tudahl is listed under "Thanks to", among many others.

[Edited 6/17/19 12:14pm]

At least Michael Howe was transparant about them remixing the multitracks to try and emulate the cassette downmixes they'd found but didn't feel like release as such because of sound quality concerns.

Glad to know Duane was consulted, or that they used his research to some extent. Maybe Duane will choose to address this here at some point in the future but it's his prerogative to do so or not.

His prerogative? You don't think they made him sign a NDA?

databank said:

stillwaiting said:

Honestly, if the disc is not at least 70 minutes, I feel cheated. Many artists satisfy )

You're talking about compilations, not albums, aren't you?

Even for albums you can do it like this:

For a 35 minute album, you can include 35-40 min of alternate takes, and make them as "bonus tracks." Somebody else suggested making Originals a two disc set, one with the original mixes, and one with the supposed altered ones like the MJ Xcsape release...not a bad idea, but if these mixes

are altered like I think they are, why alter them to begin with?

____________________________________________________________________________

It just gives the release an added value. Sure, 30 years ago, nobody thought like this, but times change. I have thousands of cds. If things were more consolidated, it would save space. But I'm converting to digital anyway, but it is still something where some people like value, some don't. Gas prices here are $2.29.9999999 per gallon at the cheapest place, but there are people filling up at a rip off place for $2.65.99999999 per gallon.

Genesia said:

databank said:

At least Michael Howe was transparant about them remixing the multitracks to try and emulate the cassette downmixes they'd found but didn't feel like release as such because of sound quality concerns.

Glad to know Duane was consulted, or that they used his research to some extent. Maybe Duane will choose to address this here at some point in the future but it's his prerogative to do so or not.

His prerogative? You don't think they made him sign a NDA?

I thought of that, if he was paid they may have, but yet again in that case it'd be his prerogative to tell us he signed a NDA or not to address it at all.

stillwaiting said:

databank said:

You're talking about compilations, not albums, aren't you?

Even for albums you can do it like this:

For a 35 minute album, you can include 35-40 min of alternate takes, and make them as "bonus tracks." Somebody else suggested making Originals a two disc set, one with the original mixes, and one with the supposed altered ones like the MJ Xcsape release...not a bad idea, but if these mixes

are altered like I think they are, why alter them to begin with?

____________________________________________________________________________

It just gives the release an added value. Sure, 30 years ago, nobody thought like this, but times change. I have thousands of cds. If things were more consolidated, it would save space. But I'm converting to digital anyway, but it is still something where some people like value, some don't. Gas prices here are $2.29.9999999 per gallon at the cheapest place, but there are people filling up at a rip off place for $2.65.99999999 per gallon.

I'm sorry, I wass not clear in my question, I meant original albums not reissues. I guess you didn't mean that for original albums.

.

I have to say that back when I listened to CD I always wished they'd leave a minute or so of silence between the album and the bonus tracks, because I didn't always wanted to listen to those and I didn't like how they often took away the moment of silence and meditation that followed the album, as a statement, itself. Now that I've moved to digital of course I can easily remove bonus tracks from the album's folder and listen to them at my convenience, so I don't have this problem anymore, and admiteddly I still was happy to find bonus tracks on some albums back in the days, but I wasn't paying music by the minute either.

.

Also, I do not believe it's such a great idea to treat arts like gas or any ordinary product. The music, movie and publishing industry have done that more than often in the course of the last century, and this wasn't necessarily the best thing for artists (nor the audience, for that matter).

.

At the end of the day IDK about reissues, and anyway CD is clearly a format on its path to near-total extinction, so today albums can just as well be 30 minutes or 5 hours long. But it took me only a few listens, back in 1998, to realize Prince had thought Crystal Ball as an album, not a compilation, despite its apparant random structure (which is, when one pays attention, not random at all). Once I'd realized that, my initial rage at the CDs only being 50 minutes long instead of 80, faded away instantly Now of course when it comes to Originals, and given the clear lack of ambition to turn it into the imitation of a proper studio album, more would certainly have been better.

databank said:

I'm sorry, I wass not clear in my question, I meant original albums not reissues. I guess you didn't mean that for original albums.

.

I was not clear either, so no reason for you to be sorry. I actually do mean it for original albums now, but there are only so many artists I care about even making original albums. Back in the day, I just wanted the albums, but from around 2008 or so, I liked the fact that we could get discs filled up, even if the demos or bonus tracks were not quite as good. The extra seconds before the bonus tracks start is a good idea.

Pics of the CD: https://twitter.com/RockI...8946100230

.

databank said:

TrevorAyer said:

how much would you shell out for a package of individual tracks you could mix yourself?

They could probably pull 50 per song or 150 for a full album of songs you could mix yourself

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?

Certainly this is out of the question.

the prince vision has always been questionable .. mixing sott era trax with 90s trax on crystal ball wasn't the best prince move .. adding jam of the year to movie star was a bit of prince blasphemy .. softening the lyrics to extraloveable old friends and the cross was rough .. those clickie noises all over gold didn't help ..

prince had his cool video game and his wacky websites .. i think a program that lets you mix his songs anyway you like would fit right in with his other computer nerdy enterprises .. lots of bands have done that sort of thing .. remix contests for fans .. prince even had fans finish a song one time ...

there have been allusions to wally having a big plan in place .. what if we had all those extra trax prince recorded and then supposedly erased .. we could mix wally any way we like from just him with a piano to whatever shitshow it became .. it would give prince fans endless fun

what if we could un mix some of the overproduced records .. take off some of the cheezy effects .. any way u slice it can't be worse than these yolks at the estate messing with the songs ..

TrevorAyer said:

databank said:

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of respecting Prince's vision, wouldn't it?

Certainly this is out of the question.

the prince vision has always been questionable .. mixing sott era trax with 90s trax on crystal ball wasn't the best prince move .. adding jam of the year to movie star was a bit of prince blasphemy .. softening the lyrics to extraloveable old friends and the cross was rough .. those clickie noises all over gold didn't help ..

prince had his cool video game and his wacky websites .. i think a program that lets you mix his songs anyway you like would fit right in with his other computer nerdy enterprises .. lots of bands have done that sort of thing .. remix contests for fans .. prince even had fans finish a song one time ...

there have been allusions to wally having a big plan in place .. what if we had all those extra trax prince recorded and then supposedly erased .. we could mix wally any way we like from just him with a piano to whatever shitshow it became .. it would give prince fans endless fun

what if we could un mix some of the overproduced records .. take off some of the cheezy effects .. any way u slice it can't be worse than these yolks at the estate messing with the songs ..

Good example.

Prince was on crack or something during that era. That Crystal Ball fiasco was so cringeworthy. Then that awful Old Friends for Sale and that 1999 the New master bullshit.

We can't say Prince would/shoulda anything. He was alwasy a contradictory enigma that would say or do one thing on Monday and the complete opposite the following week.

Now it's just about what is there and how best to preserve and/or release what is there, and what state it's been left in.

TrevorAyer said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

TrevorAyer said:

the prince vision has always been questionable ..

Good example.

Prince was on crack or something during that era. That Crystal Ball fiasco was so cringeworthy. Then that awful Old Friends for Sale and that 1999 the New master bullshit.

We can't say Prince would/shoulda anything. He was alwasy a contradictory enigma that would say or do one thing on Monday and the complete opposite the following week.

Now it's just about what is there and how best to preserve and/or release what is there, and what state it's been left in.

I want to agree with you on all of that, doubt he was on crack, he was on PRINCE, which is bad enough. The brilliance to record Witness and original Old Friends 4 Sale, but the stupidity to leave them unreleased...yep, you're right about how we can't say what he shoulda woulda...

And I love the Old Friends release, other than the title track being the jacked up version...1999 The New Mistake? Agree with you on that too.

stillwaiting said:

Dear Michaelangelo has grown on me the most from this set. I was disappointed that it didn't have the same epic intro as Sheila's that I had grown so fond of over the years. Upon multiple listens, I have to say the non-intro on P's version is decent 2 n fuck it's Prince singing it damn near the same . Whole set is fantabulous if u ask me .

BartVanHemelen said:

antonb said:

Back on track . There is a booklet with the CD with info on it.

.

Not the necesary info.

stillwaiting said:

With 6 of his last 8 releases in variations of the Paper cases, not a shock to me...

.

Perhaps not a shock but still a sign of a lack of quality.

Jewel cases were the standard until the cheap$kates found out about cardboard.