TrevorAyer said:

hopefully the extended and raw versions are planned for the deluxe expanded sets and this is really just a teaser for bigger releases .. if we are just getting one of these wierd compilations every year its gonna be rough to make a cohesive almost prince like album out of whatever they give us

In a perfect world, yes. Since the average age of Prince fans is not 35 and under, you would think they would just try to release everything to tap out the market before everyone is too old to care. I would simply propose a glorious 50 disc box set with everything unaltered, and then perhaps extra care in producing a 10 disc best of, and 4 disc highlights with everything still not remixed to death, but remastered at the right volumes. As much as I'd like a 50 disc set with remastered audio, it is not practical. I mean I'd love 9 versions of We Can Funk, but really only about 3 of them deserve special attention. I can live with passable quality if it means getting everything..

Originals is great, but some are not essential. Many better outtakes remain unreleased, which is sad, but the powers that be have no true well-thought out plan that involves the very fan base willing to pay for the goods.

wouldnt they realize that Prince wouldnt want anyone tinkering with his unfinished products?

so why do it?? did they think it would make the tracks sound better?

BartVanHemelen said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

not too sure if I agree with you on this one. The marketing campaign has actually been excellent which suggests those involved at least have some grasp of what is required.

.

Marketing = Warners. But it does look like they got a decent budget for it (in-person interviews with Peggy McCreary et al., ads in prominent places,...).

Yet not one single was released so far...

stillwaiting said:

TrevorAyer said:

hopefully the extended and raw versions are planned for the deluxe expanded sets and this is really just a teaser for bigger releases .. if we are just getting one of these wierd compilations every year its gonna be rough to make a cohesive almost prince like album out of whatever they give us

In a perfect world, yes. Since the average age of Prince fans is not 35 and under, you would think they would just try to release everything to tap out the market before everyone is too old to care. I would simply propose a glorious 50 disc box set with everything unaltered, and then perhaps extra care in producing a 10 disc best of, and 4 disc highlights with everything still not remixed to death, but remastered at the right volumes. As much as I'd like a 50 disc set with remastered audio, it is not practical. I mean I'd love 9 versions of We Can Funk, but really only about 3 of them deserve special attention. I can live with passable quality if it means getting everything..

Originals is great, but some are not essential. Many better outtakes remain unreleased, which is sad, but the powers that be have no true well-thought out plan that involves the very fan base willing to pay for the goods.

Are you happy with the mastering of Originals? IMO, it's brickwalled so bad that I'm already wanting a remaster.

feeluupp said:

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

In a perfect world, yes. Since the average age of Prince fans is not 35 and under, you would think they would just try to release everything to tap out the market before everyone is too old to care. I would simply propose a glorious 50 disc box set with everything unaltered, and then perhaps extra care in producing a 10 disc best of, and 4 disc highlights with everything still not remixed to death, but remastered at the right volumes. As much as I'd like a 50 disc set with remastered audio, it is not practical. I mean I'd love 9 versions of We Can Funk, but really only about 3 of them deserve special attention. I can live with passable quality if it means getting everything..

Originals is great, but some are not essential. Many better outtakes remain unreleased, which is sad, but the powers that be have no true well-thought out plan that involves the very fan base willing to pay for the goods.

Are you happy with the mastering of Originals? IMO, it's brickwalled so bad that I'm already wanting a remaster.

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

Are you happy with the mastering of Originals? IMO, it's brickwalled so bad that I'm already wanting a remaster.

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.

I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.

I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.

co-sign - all disk 1 of Purple Rain Deluxe did for me was show me that the CD I already had was indeed great as-is and only got crapped on by the "remastering" process.

I'm bummed that Originals is another battle into the loudness wars, but as it's the best quality we've got of the included tracks, it's easier to overlook as there's not another choice in the library, so to speak.

djThunderfunk said:

stillwaiting said:

Not happy with the sound levels of most of the entire catalog, and Originals is brickwalled, but it is what I expected. The old albums are too quiet, the new ones are too loud. It amazes me how older artists are aware of the trend of people under 35 thinking that louder is better, and market their product to young people who are not even going to be 10% of the buyers of the product to begin with. Just like Hit N Run Phase One and AOA had all the tricks of the younger listeners, and I can't find anyone under 30 that owns either one. I made a version of Plectrum with lowered record levels, but it really isn't much better, just easier on the speakers by 10% or so. Still, the Prince releases are not as bad as Duran Duran's remasters. The 2 disc version of Seven And The Ragged Tiger sounds like nothing I have ever heard. Awful.

I can raise the levels of those mastered too quiet. Once something is brickwalled nothing can be done to restore the distorted sound.

I'll take the original "too quiet" Purple Rain over the "worst brickwall EVER" remaster every. single. day.

I playied the PR remaster once, and will never listen to it again. That album is just disc 2 & 3 (+ the DVD) to me. Disc one is wasted plastic.

I copied the 2009 Vinyl to cdr, and it sounds pretty good, but I think the original cd with slightly raised record levels is the best sounding. I am going to have a go at using a different process with the 2009 Vinyl again...and hope, but I think my original 1984 vinyl, which I was lucky enough to get before the release date sounds better, scratches, pops and all.

Doozer said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Another Michael Howe interview, this time in French: http://www.muziq.fr/couli...hael-howe/

.

I first developed a first list of songs on which Prince was involved as a songwriter, instrumentalist, arranger or producer for other artists. I reviewed about 262 Vault titles to end up with the 15 present in Originals .

.

[...]

.

Most were available on 1/2 inch analogue tapes and were mostly rough mixes. Others were on cassettes, but some of them were not good enough from a sound point of view. So we made a new mix on multitrack tapes based on the cassette specifications. In the end, the listener can hear what was on these tapes with optimal sound.

.

[...]

.

Indeed, this title, which Prince recorded towards the end of 1981 on a console 16-tracks, does not have the sound quality of other titles present on this album. We have chosen to include it in Originals because many versions of this song circulate for many years in the circle of collectors, but the one we propose has never seen the day. The other interest came from the fact that this is the very first version of a song that was not going to be released until 1987

.

[Edited 6/14/19 17:16pm]

RODSERLING said:

Doozer said:

co-sign - all disk 1 of Purple Rain Deluxe did for me was show me that the CD I already had was indeed great as-is and only got crapped on by the "remastering" process.

I'm bummed that Originals is another battle into the loudness wars, but as it's the best quality we've got of the included tracks, it's easier to overlook as there's not another choice in the library, so to speak.

Maybe the vinyl version will be better

Amen! I'm buying the Target CD on Friday and then coming here to look for reviews from other people about the vinyl. If it does indeed sound better, not so much brickwall/loudness war, then I'll hop on down to my local wrecka stow to pick a copy up.


And probably still won't have liner notes unless they wised up and realized that detailed information about recordings should be included with EVERY release (even digital) not just a bonus on "deluxe" versions.

didnt think the vinyl was out till around 20th july

antonb said:

didnt think the vinyl was out till around 20th july

Really? I didn't realize that. So, people that are buying the deluxe have to wait or double dip?

EDIT: Yeah, you're right. That's some bullshit right there. One more reason to absolutely NOT buy the deluxe. Guess i'll never get the liner notes.

[Edited 6/14/19 17:58pm]

djThunderfunk said:

RODSERLING said:

Doozer said: Maybe the vinyl version will be better

Amen! I'm buying the Target CD on Friday and then coming here to look for reviews from other people about the vinyl. If it does indeed sound better, not so much brickwall/loudness war, then I'll hop on down to my local wrecka stow to pick a copy up.


And probably still won't have liner notes unless they wised up and realized that detailed information about recordings should be included with EVERY release (even digital) not just a bonus on "deluxe" versions.

Anybody that used Londell McMuffin in ANY part of the process likely will not wise up. Releases that appeal to die hards over 40 Brickwalled to death with too loud mastering, and poorly written liner notes...don't expect much. I am also buying the Target CD, but not expecting better mastering. If the Vinyl is confirmed better sounding, I will buy, but it is VERY unllikely the Vinyl would be much different.

stillwaiting said:

djThunderfunk said:

Amen! I'm buying the Target CD on Friday and then coming here to look for reviews from other people about the vinyl. If it does indeed sound better, not so much brickwall/loudness war, then I'll hop on down to my local wrecka stow to pick a copy up.


And probably still won't have liner notes unless they wised up and realized that detailed information about recordings should be included with EVERY release (even digital) not just a bonus on "deluxe" versions.

Anybody that used Londell McMuffin in ANY part of the process likely will not wise up. Releases that appeal to die hards over 40 Brickwalled to death with too loud mastering, and poorly written liner notes...don't expect much. I am also buying the Target CD, but not expecting better mastering. If the Vinyl is confirmed better sounding, I will buy, but it is VERY unllikely the Vinyl would be much different.

I expect the CD to be the exact same mastering as the digital.

I bought the new 3121 vinyl recently and to my ears it sounds better than the CD, not as much "brickwall". So, with Originals, I'm hoping...

But as I said. I'll wait to read a review or two of the vinyl before I pay the extra cash. Unfortunately I'll have to check who's doing the review, some people here seem to think the mastering on this digital release sounds good, so I'll have to watch whose opinion I trust.

I'll never understand the "too quiet--all 80s CDs sorely in need of remastering" crowd. Are these just super-passionate fans of randomized playlists or full discographies on shuffle mode? I mean why not just... turn the CDs up?

I mean, uh, I've never done any quantative metrics, but years of listening to "modern remasters" have shown me it's a fate I wouldn't wish on the worst album of all time. I know good remasters exist, but we gottta be talking, what, less than 10%, if that? Why roll the dice?

An answer to Prince.org's critics?

Have you made any editing on these titles?
No, and it's even the opposite in the case of "Baby You're A Trip", the version that was running in bootleg for years was not complete, unlike the one we hear in Originals .

Listening to Originals , we can see that some titles sound better than their versions officially released at the time.

Yes, I agree, and that's thanks to the sound engineer Bernie Grundman , who had worked a lot with Prince and who, in my opinion, is the best remastering specialist in this business. We try to work with the maximum of people who were around Prince at the time and luckily, all these people want to collaborate on these new projects.

fabriziovenerandi said:

An answer to Prince.org's critics?

Have you made any editing on these titles?
No, and it's even the opposite in the case of "Baby You're A Trip", the version that was running in bootleg for years was not complete, unlike the one we hear in Originals .

Bullshit, it is well known Prince created the version people know from the bootlegs, let Jill hear it and then briefly considered that version for himself for potential release...
After she heared it he started working on it for her, so that means her recorded vocals was them already working on it for her, so the "complete" version is her released version, Prince's complete version is the version he let her hear after recording it...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.

fabriziovenerandi said:

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.

But it has been documented MANY times by archivers and it is a FACT that he first recorded his version with his own background vocals (you can find its edited version on bootlegs) and he made it listen to Jill afterwards and THEN she recorded his vocals and background vox for her album.

This has been known for years. So unfortunately no, Howe isn’t always a reliable source. Especially when we have proof of the contrary.

fabriziovenerandi said:

An answer to Prince.org's critics?

Have you made any editing on these titles?
No, and it's even the opposite in the case of "Baby You're A Trip", the version that was running in bootleg for years was not complete, unlike the one we hear in Originals .

Listening to Originals , we can see that some titles sound better than their versions officially released at the time.

Yes, I agree, and that's thanks to the sound engineer Bernie Grundman , who had worked a lot with Prince and who, in my opinion, is the best remastering specialist in this business. We try to work with the maximum of people who were around Prince at the time and luckily, all these people want to collaborate on these new projects.

.

Bernie Grundman, as far as I know, has never worked WITH Prince in person. He is a mastering engineer, not a recording/mixing engineer. He has worked on Prince material, sure, he (or his team) has mastered several of the Prince master tapes that were sent to him.

.

The newly released versions that sound very different to the old releases sound different mainly due to them being different (new) mixes, so I'm not sure why doesn't Howe talk about that part and why does he imply that it is due to the mastering? It's not.

.

And yes, they've done editing too...

.

WhisperingDandelions said:

I mean why not just... turn the CDs up?

.

Did you miss the Loudness War? Even Bart mentioned them on the org!

Compressing shit to the max does not make the music more enjoyable.

Dynamics are part of the music, part of the experience.

udo said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I mean why not just... turn the CDs up?

.

Did you miss the Loudness War? Even Bart mentioned them on the org!

Compressing shit to the max does not make the music more enjoyable.

Dynamics are part of the music, part of the experience.

I suspect they have. If you read their post they are saying they don't really want remasters and are talking about using the volume control on their amp.

fabriziovenerandi said:

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.

This is laughable... Howe wasn't even around when the recording logs were mulled over in the 1990's... You have no clue... And I don't do bootlegs from "unverified sources"...

Neversin.

fabriziovenerandi said:

Neversin said:

Bullshit, it is well known...

.

From a history point of view "it is well know" is only a... point of view. The only reliable sources for those information are Prince and the tapes in the vault, and you have not any of this. You (and we) have only bootlegs coming from unverified sources and sources whose reliability must be compared with the materials kept in the vault. So Howe is a more realiable source than you.

Oh dear, here they come again
Hopefully this thread won't become another 'bash the guy with the info because we're ignorant/jealous' fest like those other threads with useful info.